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I agree with praying for those in authority and etc.; however I'm curious about how this example of Jesus fits in with the above verses:


Luke 13:31-32
31The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.


Jesus calls Herod a fox. Does that mean we can mock Obama for his wickedness? If not how is the above verse rightly divided?


I don't think Jesus was mocking him - I think he was just referring to the fact that Herod was sly and sneaky. I don't think we should mock BO - but there isn't anything in the Bible that tells us we can't point out his wickedness.

kita, you were posting as I was... :Green
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A thorough study of Romans 13 using the KJV 1611 AV will clarify what the Apostle Paul means. :thumb

Many of America?s pastors believe Christians are always to comply with the wishes of the government.


Nope. We are to comply with the orders of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The ruler is to be a ?servant of God' date='? and government should reward good and punish evil. Government that fails to do so is outside God?s mandated authority and function. Government is not autonomous; it has delegated authority from God. It is to restrain evil and punish wrongdoers. When it does violate God?s delegated role and refuses to reward good and punish evil, it has not proper authority. The apostle Paul called for believers to ?be subject? to government, but he did not instruct them to ?obey? every command of government. When government issues an unjust or unbiblical injunction, Christians have a higher authority. One can be ?subject? to the authority of the state but still refuse to ?obey? a specific law which is contrary to biblical standards.[1']


:goodpost::amen: This is just a given to me. Common sense, as the Bible speaks---tells me this automatically.


We will serve God or serve man' date=' but we cannot serve both. [/quote']

This is PRECISELY why we NEED to come together as IFB's and other like-minded faiths to battle the enemy. I am surprised that it has really taken this long. I lived on the (other side) unwillingly. People who grow up with knowledge of the Bible and Jesus Christ should really understand what it is like for those of us that come out of cults.



Shouldn't all Christ followers be living like this?



Maybe what we all need to do is NOT wait until things get real bad...but, use preventative measures. Just like "preventative" dentistry. GET THEM BEFORE THEY GET US!!! We are NOT just fighting the President Elect...we are fighting a whole regime.

Thanks for the information---LuAnne!! Now, let's apply it, instead of just talking about it. As they say..."Actions speak louder than words." :wave:
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I don't think Jesus was mocking him - I think he was just referring to the fact that Herod was sly and sneaky. I don't think we should mock BO - but there isn't anything in the Bible that tells us we can't point out his wickedness.

kita, you were posting as I was... :Green


No, the reason its going on is because of sin, fallen men. They just can't help their selves, its their nature, don't blame the people for what sinners are doing. Many of them even hiding behind God claiming to be doing His will.
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No' date=' the reason its going on is because of sin, fallen men. They just can't help their selves, its their nature, don't blame the people for what sinners are doing. Many of them even hiding behind God claiming to be doing His will.[/quote']

:amen::goodpost: Pastor Jerry.

That is why I talked with my pastor, briefly, last night and I said..."Pastor...I really don't want all you Christian folk who have been living for the Lord----the best way that you know how, for years, to blame yourselves." I said..."I was unwillingly a heathen for most of my life." Holding back the tears---I said..."I have been living a saved life for 5 years now" and...it looks like were going home already. He replied...(humbly)---"Molly, we've had it pretty good for years." That made me feel so much better.

Thank God when the flesh gets in there---with saved man/woman we have repentance. Praise God.

There are still so many lost souls in need of salvation. :amen:
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Our Founders understood the sin nature which is why they attempted to separate the powers within the government and why they attempted to limit the federal government to such a small roll. Sadly their efforts failed and sin won over.

Of course, without Christ there is no way to win over sin.

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Let us not fall into the trap of speaking ill of Mr. Obama. The bible tells us:

2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

That depends on the definition of "speaking ill". In one case, it's not a bad thing: that's where we make notice of his mistakes, deceit, and flaws of his policy. In this country, we employ a president, therefore we have the right to watch his actions to learn from for the next election. If you consider that bad, than every single politician who makes notice of his potential predecessor's mistakes is sinning and therefore makes a large part of campaigning sinful.
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That depends on the definition of "speaking ill". In one case, it's not a bad thing: that's where we make notice of his mistakes, deceit, and flaws of his policy. In this country, we employ a president, therefore we have the right to watch his actions to learn from for the next election. If you consider that bad, than every single politician who makes notice of his potential predecessor's mistakes is sinning and therefore makes a large part of campaigning sinful.



Spot on...anime4christ. :amen:
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Most of our congressmen, unlike our congressmen of yesterday year, spend most of their time in Washington around other congressmen and lobbyist instead of at home around the people they're suppose to represent.

They're out of touch with what the people back home want and or need. Most of them could probably represent people at Washington better than they can the ones who elected them.

Plus you become like those you hang out and run with.

One thing for sure, the lobbyist and the ones they work for are well represented by all of our congressmen.

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Most of our congressmen' date=' unlike our congressmen of yesterday year, spend most of their time in Washington around other congressmen and lobbyist instead of at home around the people they're suppose to represent. Very true.

They're out of touch with what the people back home want and or need. Most of them could probably represent people at Washington better than they can the ones who elected them.

Plus you become like those you hang out and run with. When you go to bed with dogs, you wake up with flees.

One thing for sure, the lobbyist and the ones they work for are well represented by all of our congressmen.


Washington, DC is a wild place. I have been over every inch of that city in 1996. I can't imagine it now?
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Luke 13:31-32
31The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Jesus calls Herod a fox. Does that mean we can mock Obama for his wickedness? If not how is the above verse rightly divided?


First of all, when you think your outward acts of righteousness can compare with the Lord's that were driven by a completely holy nature, you can do some of the things He did...maybe even raise the dead! :cool

So what should we do in light of Mr. Obama becoming President whether you think, believe it was a fixed election or not, compare scripture with scripture.

Paul said:
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

This means a perfect democratic republic and Rome. Of course we are to obey all they say UNLESS it contradicts the word of God...it is the ultimate authority.

Peter said:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

This rubs against MY very base nature, but it is flesh that rears up, not the sweet Spirit of God.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

This ain't people, this is the same thing Daniel stood up against.

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

We either do this COMPLETELY the Bible way (we claim to be Bible believers,) or the fleshly way, not both, it does not work.

Jude, speaking of FALSE TEACHERS said:

Jud 1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

One should be careful for their accusation and condemnation of one even like Barak Obama who obviously does not share our values (or should I say Biblical values.) We do not know what God is trying to accomplish and should be careful lest we be found standing against the Lord and His sovereign will (if you believe in sovereignty.)

Psa 75:4 I said unto the fools, Deal not foolishly: and to the wicked, Lift not up the horn:
Psa 75:5 Lift not up your horn on high: speak [not with] a stiff neck.
Psa 75:6 For promotion [cometh] neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south.[Neither from the Republicans, Democrats, Independents, etc., insertion, mine.]
Psa 75:7 But God [is] the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

The fact of the matter is we are on a freight train that is fully loaded, heading down hill, has no brakes, and has an appointment with the Second Coming of Christ. The Lord is going to set up every situation, even a socialist President, to speed that course along.

Pro 21:1 The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Can we not trust in that (Proverbs 21:1) rather than trust in politicians that the religious, conservative, right put in there that WE THOUGHT were going to show the Clinton 90's Democrats how to do it right? Consider:

Pro 22:11 He [That's us, insert mine] that loveth pureness of heart, [for] the grace of his lips the king [shall be] his friend.

Lot's of strong POLITICAL feelings here, but we are to be people of the Bible in word and DEED. What good is it to be gun barrel straight...and twice as empty?!

Bro. Ben
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Regardless of who the person is, if they do wrong, they are to be marked for it. And BO (who may become POTUS, but he is not yet President-elect) is no different. There is nowhere in the Bible that tells us we are to be cowed into silence just because someone is elected. The POTUS is our employee, not our lord.

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[quote="PreacherBen"]

First of all, when you think your outward acts of righteousness can compare with the Lord's that were driven by a completely holy nature, you can do some of the things He did...maybe even raise the dead! :cool

So what should we do in light of Mr. Obama becoming President whether you think, believe it was a fixed election or not, compare scripture with scripture.

Paul said:
[color=#0000FF]Rom 13:1 [b]Let every soul be subject [/b]unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: [b]the powers that be [/b]are [b]ordained of God[/b].
Rom 13:2 [b]Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.[/b][/color]

This means a perfect democratic republic and Rome. Of course we are to obey all they say [b]UNLESS[/b] it contradicts the word of God...it is the ultimate authority.

Peter said:
[color=#0000FF]2Pe 2:10 But chiefly [b]them that walk after the flesh [/b]in the lust of uncleanness, and [b]despise government[/b]. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are [b]not afraid to speak evil of dignities[/b].
2Pe 2:11 [b]Whereas [u]angels[/u], which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord[/b].[/color]

This rubs against MY very base nature, but it is flesh that rears up, not the sweet Spirit of God.

[color=#0000FF]Eph 6:12 For [b]we wrestle not against flesh[/b] and blood, [b]but against [/b]principalities, against powers, against the [b]rulers of the darkness[/b] of this world, against [b]spiritual wickedness in high[/b] [places]. [/color]

This ain't people, this is the same thing Daniel stood up against.

[color=#0000FF]2Cr 10:3 For [u]though we walk in the flesh[/u], [b]we do not war after the flesh[/b]:
2Cr 10:4 (For [u]the weapons of our warfare [b][are] not carnal[/b][/u], but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)[/color]

We either do this COMPLETELY the Bible way (we claim to be Bible believers,) or the fleshly way, not both, it does not work.

Jude, speaking of FALSE TEACHERS said:

[color=#0000FF]Jud 1:8 Likewise also [b]these [filthy] dreamers[/b] defile the flesh, [b]despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities[/b].
Jud 1:9 [b]Yet Michael[/b] the archangel, when [b]contending with the devil[/b] he disputed about the body of Moses, [b]durst not bring against him a railing accusation[/b], but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10 [b]But these speak evil of those things which they know not[/b]: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.[/color]

One should be careful for their accusation and condemnation of one even like Barak Obama who obviously does not share our values (or should I say Biblical values.) We do not know what God is trying to accomplish and should be careful lest we be found standing against the Lord and His sovereign will (if you believe in sovereignty.)

[color=#0000FF]Psa 75:4 I said unto the fools, Deal not foolishly: and to the wicked, Lift not up the horn:
Psa 75:5 Lift not up your horn on high: speak [not with] a stiff neck.
Psa 75:6 [b]For promotion [cometh] neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south.[/b][/color][Neither from the Republicans, Democrats, Independents, etc., insertion, mine.]
[color=#0000FF]Psa 75:7 But God [is] the judge: [b]he putteth down one, and setteth up another[/b].[/color]

The fact of the matter is we are on a freight train that is fully loaded, heading down hill, has no brakes, and has an appointment with the Second Coming of Christ. The Lord is going to set up every situation, even a socialist President, to speed that course along.

[color=#0000FF]Pro 21:1 The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.[/color]

Can we not trust in that (Proverbs 21:1) rather than trust in politicians that the religious, conservative, right put in there that WE THOUGHT were going to show the Clinton 90's Democrats how to do it right? Consider:

[color=#0000FF]Pro 22:11 He[/color] [That's us, insert mine] [color=#0000FF]that loveth [b]pureness of heart[/b], [for] [b]the grace of his lips[/b] [u]the king [shall be] his friend[/u].[/color]

Lot's of strong POLITICAL feelings here, but we are to be people of the Bible in word and DEED. What good is it to be gun barrel straight...and twice as empty?!

Bro. Ben[/quote]

:goodpost:

...but I've wondered about this one...

[color=#0000FF]Rom 13:1 [b]Let every soul be subject [/b]unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: [b]the powers that be [/b]are [b]ordained of God[/b].
Rom 13:2 [b]Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.[/b][/color]

This means a perfect democratic republic and Rome. Of course we are to obey all they say [b]UNLESS[/b] it contradicts the word of God...it is the ultimate authority.


...as some use this as evidence America's Founders were wrong (unbiblical) with regards to the American Revolution. What say you?

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[quote="HappyChristian"]Regardless of who the person is, if they do wrong, they are to be marked for it. And BO (who may become POTUS, but he is not yet President-elect) is no different. There is nowhere in the Bible that tells us we are to be cowed into silence just because someone is elected. The POTUS is our employee, not our lord.[/quote]

I think it's a matter of how we go about this. We can speak the truth in love, or we can speak in and undermining manner, or out of hate, etc.

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Bro. John, you asked,
[quote]...as some use this as evidence America's Founders were wrong (unbiblical) with regards to the American Revolution. What say you?[/quote]

[color=#0000FF]1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that [b]with well doing [/b]ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe 2:16 As free, and [b]not using [your] liberty [/b]for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the [b]servants of God[/b].
1Pe 2:17 Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. [b]Honour the king[/b].[/color]

Well...(as I lean my head forward for some smacking,) We either are going to obey or disobey that clear command. We are never told to rebel against our government, (and someone please don't jump in and give an O.T. example because we are under the New Covenant and our battle is for a "life," not a "land.") The reason we are a nation of rebels is because we were born of rebellion. I don't care how "godly" our founding fathers were, they were mostly influenced by Calvin's Reformed Dominion Theology which justifies righteous war, you know, "Kill them all and let God sort out the bodies, the elect will go to heaven."

We should have submitted, prayed, fasted, and honored the king, and God (you know, King of all kings,) would have given us what we [u]needed[/u] accoarding to His greater wisdom.

Happy Christian, you said:
[quote]There is nowhere in the Bible that tells us we are to be cowed into silence just because someone is elected. The POTUS is our employee, not our lord.[/quote]

No, we are not to be cowed into silence, but we are commanded by the Most High God to hold the man who we elect into the office in esteem. If we don't we are in sin and are bring reproach on our personal testimony and upon the church at large. He (whatever a POTUS is,) is our employee, but we elected to give him the position that God has ordained to be held in high esteem. Sure in our current form of government, we have the ability through contacting our elected Congressman and Senators, of voicing our disagreement with current policy or upcoming decisions, but we HAD BETTER DO IT in a way prescribed by God or we are in sin...plain and simple.

The fact of the matter is that we belong to a different Kingdom and have dual citizenship, but the Superior King our Heavenly Land, has told just how we are to conduct ourselves over on this shore. If you and do not, WE WILL answer to the King when we get home.

[color=#0000FF]1Ti 2:1 [b]I exhort therefore, that, first of all[/b], supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] [b]giving of thanks[/b], be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 [b]For kings[/b], and [for] [b]all that are in authority[/b];[/color] [[u]why[/u], insert mine] [color=#0000FF] that [b]we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.[/b]
1Ti 2:3 For [b]this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God [/b]our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.[/color]

Though we do not agree with the policies of Barak Obama, he should look at the Christian community and say, "I wish I could get America to operate like that!"

Bro. Ben

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