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There were many different tribes with many different languages: How do we know which tribe arrived in America first? The point being, we're ALL immigrants and we're all sinners.

We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now. Martin Luther King Jr.



You are SO right, heartstrings! That is the point... lol

AMEN!! :thumb
What I think is so funny about the term "Native American" is that ANYONE who is born in America is a native American!!! You don't hear the term "Native European" or "Native Englishman" etc. You're right' date=' heart, the Indian society wasn't utopia![/quote']

:amen: That is why I love this cartoon. Anyway, I thought it was appropriate to this thread.


They come up with some funny cartoons. I thought this was priceless!

God bless,

Molly
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American Indians were not native to the Americas. By the time they arrived there were already people here. Whether some of them arrived from Europe during the Ice Age or they otherwise made their way here there were Caucasians in the Americas when the American Indians arrived and exterminated them.

It's also possible some a couple other people groups in the Americas when the American Indians arrived as well.

In any event, the American Indians are as much immigrants as were the Pilgrims.

In whatever manner the Lord scattered the peoples, the evidence shows that in most parts of the world there were other people groups living there prior to those who live there today.

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In whatever manner the Lord scattered the peoples' date=' the evidence shows that in most parts of the world there were other people groups living there prior to those who live there today.[/quote']

Exactly, John. I received this joke from a Shephardic Jewish girl from Spain. Her older brother is 21 and serving in the JDF - IDF... in Israel.

God bless you ~

Molly
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American Indians were not native to the Americas. By the time they arrived there were already people here. Whether some of them arrived from Europe during the Ice Age or they otherwise made their way here there were Caucasians in the Americas when the American Indians arrived and exterminated them.

It's also possible some a couple other people groups in the Americas when the American Indians arrived as well.

In any event, the American Indians are as much immigrants as were the Pilgrims.

In whatever manner the Lord scattered the peoples, the evidence shows that in most parts of the world there were other people groups living there prior to those who live there today.


Really....
I have read that the Viking "Leif the Lucky" landed in North America, but it was long after Native Americans arrived. Then I watched a film which suggested there was some indication in South America, that Australian "Aborigines" may have beat the Indians here. Never heard Caucasians did though. Can you show me where you got the info?
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Really....
I have read that the Viking "Leif the Lucky" landed in North America, but it was long after Native Americans arrived. Then I watched a film which suggested there was some indication in South America, that Australian "Aborigines" may have beat the Indians here. Never heard Caucasians did though. Can you show me where you got the info?


I'll have to recall the names of some of these and see if I can access where I stored some of this. Such have been found in the Western United States, Mexico and elsewhere, including Easter Island.

One site was found during the Clinton Administration and the facial reconstruction of a skull found there looks almost identical to Patrick Stewart. Clinton had the site closed down, allowing no further examination.

Another site, perhaps the Spirit Cave mummy (?...not sure, need to look this up).

One Indian tribes legend tells of a a white people they warred with, trapping the remaining members in a cave, which they covered the intrance with wood and set ablaze, killing all those left. This site was found and the remains are of white people.

Yes, Vikings (Leif, as well as others) are known to have visited the Americas; but as you say, this was after the American Indians had already migrated here and settled.

Interestingly, there is a cave in Arizona or New Mexico where Roman weapons in excellent condition were found. By what was discovered, it seems as if Romans were actually there. How and why?

If I have time I'll try to come up with some links. I've not studied this in years and it's difficult to study because it's not PC and is therefore not reported on by the mainstream media. What really got me looking into this area was a Black History professor who gave us readings which said blacks were in South America and revered as gods...he also said Egyptians were black, could fly and used flying machines in building the pyramids, that they sailed the world and invented virtually everything useful as well as discovered all the things we attribute to the Greeks and Romans...which is why he says the library in Alexandria was purposefully burned by evil white Europeans, to hide all this.
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One site was found during the Clinton Administration and the facial reconstruction of a skull found there looks almost identical to Patrick Stewart. Clinton had the site closed down' date=' allowing no further examination.[/quote']

Ah yes, I've heard that anthropologists have since been able to link this discovery to an ancient race known as the Makeitsoans.
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:lol:

Actually, this is the Kennewick Man, and his race is clear.

Kennewick Man

Unexpected test results showed that the remains were approximately 9,300 years old, rather than from the nineteenth century, as had originally been assumed. After collecting all the bone pieces, Chatters concluded the subject was a Caucasoid (White/European) male about 68 inches (173 cm) tall who died in his mid fifties.

An interesting factor in all this is the crippling effects of PC in all things. In archeology, when remains are determined to be those of any race other than whites (using that term for simplicity sake), they are announced matter of factly. When the remains of whites are found today, rather than calling them Caucasian and thus matter of factly making it clear they were white, there is the tendency to call them Caucasoid. The term Caucasoid is used to refer to many different people groups, some they can say are not actually white today, and therefore attempt to avoid saying particular remains are those of whites if such would be un-PC.

Since it's not PC to claim whites were in America before the American Indians, such is rarely said anymore. Finds that were clearly Caucasian have now been relabled Caucasoid and rather than clearly pointing out they are of the European type, they attempt to ascribe them to the Ainu or some other group.

This has been done with Kennewick Man, the Spirit Cave Mummies, and several others. In several cases where the remains were clearly those of a Caucasian, American Indian groups and the federal government have teamed together to prevent DNA testing and further examination which would prove the race of the remains.

Were the truth to become widely known that a Caucasian population was in the Americas when the American Indians arrived, and the American Indians overwhelmed them and took the Americas as their own, it would blow the entire liberal dogma of evil white Europeans killing off innocent American Indians and stealing their land. Naturally, they go to great lengths to prevent this from happening...including dumping tons of rock over sites to prevent further examination of the area.
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Hmmm, I never heard that whites were here before the indians. I have heard that when the Pilgrims arrived, there was evidence of non-indian peoples having been here. Can't remember exactly, but something about them finding some blonde hairs in or near one of the baskets of corn they unearthed shortly after they landed.

That would most likely have come from the Vikings who did a good bit of exploring on the eastern coast of the continent before any englishmen came over.

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One of the theories is that whites crossed over from Europe during the Ice Age. Of course, there are a couple other theories as well.

The Vikings appear to have actually made it to the interior of what is now the United States.

Of course, none of this explains how the Roman artifacts came to be in that southwestern cave!

Early history and what they call pre-history is far more complicated than they would have us believe.

Of course, part of the problem (besides the PC issues) is their stance on evolution. They must keep up the illusion that early and ancient man was for inferior intellecutally to modern man. This is why they go to great lengths to dispute signs that ancient man was just as brilliant (maybe more brilliant?) than modern man. They do this to the point of actually contemplating the idea that advanced aliens from outer space had a hand in creating things like the pyramids...which, of course, ancient man was just too dimwitted to do on their own. :roll

They continually rule out the idea of ocean travel by the ancients, even though its been proven that both the ancient Egyptians and Polynesians had watercraft capable of oceanic journeys.

As well, we cannot discount the biblical scattering of the people (which, of course, archeologists do) in all this. Such could have had a hand in much, or all, of this.

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And don't forget the lost tribes of Israel theory. :Green (the Mormons even have a name for the leader who brought them over: Lemuel) 'Course' date=' that's where the indians supposedly come from...[/quote']

Or how 'bout the theory that whites are the lost tribes of Israel and are therefore the true Israelites. :roll
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When I first encountered this it was the American version, Christian Identity. Some of their material is very well put together and I can see how those with limited biblical and historical understanding could accept much of what they put forth. They go into intricate detail in showing how the lost tribes were scattered and became the peoples of Europe and from there spread forth. They mix enough truth in their material to make it sound convincing to anyone who doesn't already know better...which would include a larger number of people than they make up. :lol:

Several years ago I "talked" online with some who hold these views. Most were way out there but there was two who, other than this aspect, were biblically sound. One in particular really stuck out as other than the "identity" aspect, she spoke like a typical IFB with regards to doctrine and the Bible in general.
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Hmmm, I never heard that whites were here before the indians. I have heard that when the Pilgrims arrived, there was evidence of non-indian peoples having been here. Can't remember exactly, but something about them finding some blonde hairs in or near one of the baskets of corn they unearthed shortly after they landed.

That would most likely have come from the Vikings who did a good bit of exploring on the eastern coast of the continent before any englishmen came over.


I saw a program a little while back on the Discovery Science Channel that whites were indeed here before Indians. They have found clothed skeletons which date before the arrival of the Indians.

Here ya go: http://store.discovery.com/detail.php?a=DSC-59637

Then there's the Kennewick Man.
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I apologise in advance if this is a silly question but how did they date "kenwick man"?

Blossom


The last thing I read on this said they used "advanced methods in radio carbon dating". Along with this they also take into account other artifacts found with Kennewick Man, such as the arrowhead lodged in his hip.
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I saw a program a little while back on the Discovery Science Channel that whites were indeed here before Indians. They have found clothed skeletons which date before the arrival of the Indians.

Here ya go: http://store.discovery.com/detail.php?a=DSC-59637

Then there's the Kennewick Man.


Interesting! I don't agree with their dating (17,000 years before Columbus was born), but it's interesting to think about. It says they started their trek in what is now France - since you saw it, could you describe the family? Just curious as to their hair and eye coloring...
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Interesting! I don't agree with their dating (17,000 years before Columbus was born), but it's interesting to think about. It says they started their trek in what is now France - since you saw it, could you describe the family? Just curious as to their hair and eye coloring...


Yes, the dating I wouldn't go with either, but the one skeleton definitely predated the Native Americans. The theory was that the Caucasians followed fishing routes that lead them here.

Here's an interesting study: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis

and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man
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The last thing I read on this said they used "advanced methods in radio carbon dating". Along with this they also take into account other artifacts found with Kennewick Man, such as the arrowhead lodged in his hip.


I understand using the artifacts around, but I thought carbon dating was inaacurate. Don't creation scientists use this method of age determining against evolutionists??? Is it reliable up to a certain time frame??


Thanks

Blossom
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<<"Carbon-14 has dated freshly killed seals to have died 1300 years ago; living snail shells show they have died 27,000 years ago; a 15 thousand year difference has been found in dating a single block of peat; coal from Russia supposedly 300 million years old, was dated at 1680 years.">>

http://www.creationdefense.org/14.htm

<<"I have documentation of an Allosaurus bone that was sent to The University of Arizona to be carbon dated. The results were 9,890 +/- 60 years and 16,120 +/- 220 years.

"We didn't tell them that the bones they were dating were dinosaur bones. The result was sample B at 16,120 years. The Allosaurus dinosaur was supposed to be around 140,000,000 years. The samples of bone were blind samples."

This test was done on August 10, 1990 ">>

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html

All the lost scientist have is a preconceived idea and their goal is to try and prove there is no God. I recall reading years ago about a living snail that was carbon dated to be thousand of years old.

But back to the topic, everyone has the right to buy from whom ever they choose without being called racist, after all this is America.

And why wouldn't a Christian rather support a Christian business rather than a heathen business?

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<<"Carbon-14 has dated freshly killed seals to have died 1300 years ago; living snail shells show they have died 27,000 years ago; a 15 thousand year difference has been found in dating a single block of peat; coal from Russia supposedly 300 million years old, was dated at 1680 years.">>

http://www.creationdefense.org/14.htm

<<"I have documentation of an Allosaurus bone that was sent to The University of Arizona to be carbon dated. The results were 9,890 +/- 60 years and 16,120 +/- 220 years.

"We didn't tell them that the bones they were dating were dinosaur bones. The result was sample B at 16,120 years. The Allosaurus dinosaur was supposed to be around 140,000,000 years. The samples of bone were blind samples."

This test was done on August 10, 1990 ">>


http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html

All the lost scientist have is a preconceived idea and their goal is to try and prove there is no God. I recall reading years ago about a living snail that was carbon dated to be thousand of years old.

But back to the topic, everyone has the right to buy from whom ever they choose without being called racist, after all this is America.

And why wouldn't a Christian rather support a Christian business rather than a heathen business?



Thanks for the sites, Pastor Jerry. I have heard good things about both of them. :)

I agree that WE should support Christian businesses; however, not all of us are blessed to live amongst Christians. I live in HEATHEN land :lol primarily; therefore, when I buy from them? God gives me the opportunity to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with them.

I had a girl the other day - at McDonald's - tell me that her management told her not to accept the booklet that I gave her on scriptures for the month of June. I simply let her know that her management is NOT God Almighty (she gave me a strange look) and she could slip it in her purse and not let her management or anyone know. She looked like she was 16 - and un-churched. She took the booklet - and I am praying for her "spiritual condition." I know ALL about upper management at McDonald's - however, as we know, they NEED the Gospel of Christ. They don't know any better. I will continue to get the Gospel out to the lost until (A) The Rapture of the church of the Living God OR (B) They put me in prison - like they have done to "true" Christians in the past.

GOD owns EVERYTHING, as we know. :thumb

Revelation 3:7-13... 7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, HE THAT HATH THE KEY OF DAVID, HE THAT OPENETH, AND NO MAN SHUTTETH; AND SHUTTETH, AND NO MAN OPENETH; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know (realize) that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. "Letters to the Churches" King James Bible "Words of Jesus Christ - in red"

God bless everyone,

Molly
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.........But back to the topic, everyone has the right to buy from whom ever they choose without being called racist, after all this is America.

And why wouldn't a Christian rather support a Christian business rather than a heathen business?


There are a great many "rights", but a great many are not right.

In my line of work, the great majority of my clientele are other business people, and I have learned the hard way to be extra cautious of ANYONE who flashes their "Christianity" during a business deal. Because a great many use it as a gimmick in their marketing strategies. I have a close relative who has been doing that for years; he displays the "fish", the bumper stickers, "talks about the Lord" during the deal, but he will decieve you and rip you off as sure as I'm breathing. Ever heard the expression "confidence man"? An awful lot of people use false Christianity to win your confidence. Having said that though, I do try to do business with family and people in my church.
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In my line of work' date=' the great majority of my clientele are other business people, and I have learned the hard way to be extra cautious of ANYONE who flashes their "Christianity" during a business deal. Because a great many use it as a gimmick in their marketing strategies. I have a close relative who has been doing that for years; he displays the "fish", the bumper stickers, "talks about the Lord" during the deal, but he will decieve you and rip you off as sure as I'm breathing. Ever heard the expression "confidence man"? An awful lot of people use false Christianity to win your confidence. Having said that though, I do try to do business with family and people in my church.[/quote']

Unfortunately that is very true, and I find myself being careful when I encounter "loud" Christianity in business for the same reasons. Of a truth many deceivers are gone out into the world.
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There are a great many "rights", but a great many are not right.

In my line of work, the great majority of my clientele are other business people, and I have learned the hard way to be extra cautious of ANYONE who flashes their "Christianity" during a business deal. Because a great many use it as a gimmick in their marketing strategies. I have a close relative who has been doing that for years; he displays the "fish", the bumper stickers, "talks about the Lord" during the deal, but he will decieve you and rip you off as sure as I'm breathing. Ever heard the expression "confidence man"? An awful lot of people use false Christianity to win your confidence. Having said that though, I do try to do business with family and people in my church.


Don't make no difference, everyone has the right to buy from who ever they please without being called a raciest, whether they are white, black, yellow, red, no matter what color they be, but more especially no Christian ought to call them raciest.

Yes, and the politician will use Christianity to get your vote while they're seeking power that they lust for with all their heart and all of their mind. Politics is the most tainted and deceiving profession there be.

But all that said, it does not take long after you get to know someone just what kind of person they be, we shall know them by their fruit.
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