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The Constitution & Its Benefits To Christians In America

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Though there once may have been some benefits unfortunately the constitution no longer has any bearing on the rulers of this nation.  I wish writers would stop going on about the constitution as if it really has any relevence to today and the future.  Sorry, I seem to be a little grumpy this morning.

 

God bless,

Larry

Edited by pilgrim1938

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Though there once may have been some benefits unfortunately the constitution no longer has any bearing on the rulers of this nation.  I wish writers would stop going on about the constitution as if it really has any relevence to today and the future.  Sorry, I seem to be a little grumpy this morning.

 

God bless,

Larry

The Constitution, like all human endeavors, is flawed. Even some of the Founders acknowledged such. Many of the warnings put forth came to pass, and much more.

 

For Christians in America the Constitution is all but dead. The Constitution has been twisted, ignored, reinterpreted and cast aside so much it's nothing near it's original design nor intent.

 

As the government runs today, majority opinion wins the day. Whether one wants to go back 150 years or 50 years, to look at the situation there is a clear and steady errosion of liberty as the government took on more and more power for itself.

 

The Constitution serves today mostly as a prop. Presidents, congressmen and judges have made it clear, in word and deed, they will have their way regardless of the Constitution.

 

If Christians in America would seek first the kingdom of God, set their affections on things above, rather than continually looking to politics or backwards to a glorified view of the "good 'ol days" that never were, then perhaps there would be some hope.

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The U.S. Constitution is this nation's law (along with the millions of word in U.S. code). It is a fact when Christianity was the primary "confession" of Americans, this nation was less tolerant of outward and obvious sin.

 

It would appear the more laws are added to the U.S. Constitution (and more U.S. Code)  the more sinful the nation becomes. Which allows for, "Maybe we should have more office holders anxious to destroy the law, then possibly we would have less sinful behavior."

 

What does scripture say about this specifically? Maybe from Romans 7 we could get an understanding for better application.

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As the government runs today, majority opinion wins the day. 

 

Our Founders called this "Mob Rule".

 

Today's Democrats and liberals refer to America's form of government as a Democracy, not a Constitutional Republic.  On paper they're wrong, in practice they are correct.

 

What the Democrats are hoping for, what our Founders warned us about, is that all Democracies fail, they destroy themselves from within.

 

Watch the news and see it happen before your eyes.  Come Lord Jesus, come quickly!

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Our Founders called this "Mob Rule".

 

Today's Democrats and liberals refer to America's form of government as a Democracy, not a Constitutional Republic.  On paper they're wrong, in practice they are correct.

 

What the Democrats are hoping for, what our Founders warned us about, is that all Democracies fail, they destroy themselves from within.

 

Watch the news and see it happen before your eyes.  Come Lord Jesus, come quickly!

Yes, and the Founders went so far as to declare a monarchy was preferable to a democracy.

 

Several of the Founders warned of the weaknesses in the Constitution. Some warned there would be need to continually clean out corruption and restore the government of following the Constitution every few decades. Some warned of the dangers of allowing America to become a large nation, knowing that in so doing she would go the way of centralization and empire. Even Thomas Jefferson, who greatly expanded the size of America, put forth that America should peacefully divide into three or more separate countries with treaties of mutual peace, trade and protection.

 

With the stripping away of States Rights, of which changing the way Senators are elected was a part, along with the acceptance and continuance of allowing the central government to have controlling power, the Constitution has long ago ceased to be rightly observed.

 

It's not just the Democrats who have pushed democracy and centralized power, the Republicans play the same game. Each side doesn't like it when the other holds the most strings of power, but they each like it when they are in control.

 

America needs Christ, not the Constitution. America needs Christians who truly love Jesus and are willing to show their love by doing what He called them to do.

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The U.S. Constitution is this nation's law (along with the millions of word in U.S. code). It is a fact when Christianity was the primary "confession" of Americans, this nation was less tolerant of outward and obvious sin.

 

It would appear the more laws are added to the U.S. Constitution (and more U.S. Code)  the more sinful the nation becomes. Which allows for, "Maybe we should have more office holders anxious to destroy the law, then possibly we would have less sinful behavior."

 

What does scripture say about this specifically? Maybe from Romans 7 we could get an understanding for better application.

Actually, it's mostly a myth that America was ever less tolerant of outward and obvious sin. Throughout it's history, even pre-history, America has been awash in sin just as all other nations and peoples have been. During differing times certain sins were more tolerated than others, some where kept more secret during certain times.

 

Abuse of alcohol, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, gambling, murder, stealing, lying; all of these and many more were common.

 

Today we have 24/7 media coverage of sin so it's in our face more, but the same things were going on back then too. As Ecclesiastes teaches us, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

As even several of the Founders acknowledged, the Constitution would only serve well for a moral people. As we know, there is no true morality outside Christ. This is why almost from the beginning the Constitution came under assault and the central government began working for more power.

 

This is the natural course of fallen human nature.

 

None of this is to say the Constitution or America is horrible, both are simply subject to the effects of the fall as are all other human endeavors. All human endeavors eventually head one direction, the wrong direction. Is it any wonder the Lord told us not to entangle ourselves in the temporal things of the world, calling us to be mindful we are first of all citizens of the kingdom of God and in that capacity we are ambassadors and priests of the Most High, called upon and commanded to live in accord with the commands of Christ.

 

What a shame we so easily become distracted and we so easily settle for less and we so easily confuse being busy about earthly matters with serving the Lord.

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Actually, it's mostly a myth that America was ever less tolerant of outward and obvious sin. Throughout it's history, even pre-history, America has been awash in sin just as all other nations and peoples have been. During differing times certain sins were more tolerated than others, some where kept more secret during certain times.

 

Abuse of alcohol, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, gambling, murder, stealing, lying; all of these and many more were common.

 

Today we have 24/7 media coverage of sin so it's in our face more, but the same things were going on back then too. As Ecclesiastes teaches us, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

As even several of the Founders acknowledged, the Constitution would only serve well for a moral people. As we know, there is no true morality outside Christ. This is why almost from the beginning the Constitution came under assault and the central government began working for more power.

 

This is the natural course of fallen human nature.

 

None of this is to say the Constitution or America is horrible, both are simply subject to the effects of the fall as are all other human endeavors. All human endeavors eventually head one direction, the wrong direction. Is it any wonder the Lord told us not to entangle ourselves in the temporal things of the world, calling us to be mindful we are first of all citizens of the kingdom of God and in that capacity we are ambassadors and priests of the Most High, called upon and commanded to live in accord with the commands of Christ.

 

What a shame we so easily become distracted and we so easily settle for less and we so easily confuse being busy about earthly matters with serving the Lord.

 

I believe Americans as a whole were less less tolerant of outward and obvious sin. That's my historical perspective. I believe America was less tolerant of Godless wickedness and immorality too.

 

For example early psychiatry condemned homosexuality as disease of the mind. It wasn't until 1968 that they changed the DSM to reflect a change in attitude and lack of disgust for this obvious wanton immoral sin.

 

I agree, the natural course of fallen humanity will continue down the slippery slope. I put no hope in secular man or government to change this.

 

I do hope God will move Christians to come out of their shell and openly oppose the wickedness and much more as we see the day of the Lord approaching. Yes, I've been a proponent of witnessing first; but, secondly open opposition to the things God condemns by every other means possible. I believe I've been fairly plain in the past about my stand on Christians taking a stand.

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I believe Americans as a whole were less less tolerant of outward and obvious sin. That's my historical perspective. I believe America was less tolerant of Godless wickedness and immorality too.

 

For example early psychiatry condemned homosexuality as disease of the mind. It wasn't until 1968 that they changed the DSM to reflect a change in attitude and lack of disgust for this obvious wanton immoral sin.

 

I agree, the natural course of fallen humanity will continue down the slippery slope. I put no hope in secular man or government to change this.

 

I do hope God will move Christians to come out of their shell and openly oppose the wickedness and much more as we see the day of the Lord approaching. Yes, I've been a proponent of witnessing first; but, secondly open opposition to the things God condemns by every other means possible. I believe I've been fairly plain in the past about my stand on Christians taking a stand.

Homosexuality is but one of many sins. True, open homosexuality wasn't tolerated a hundred or more years ago in America as it is today, but other sins were.

 

The way to stand firm against wickedness and sin is to do as Christ commands. That is, living as He said we are to live, so the world sees His light, sees Him rather than us; spreading the Gospel, making disciples, loving one another, gathering together, etc.

 

Scripture tells us our battle is a spiritual battle, not a natural, carnal, fleshly, worldly battle. The only way a Christian can rightly, biblically, stand against sin and wickedness is spiritually, as Scripture tells us.

 

Spending 40 years protesting, donating to politicians, working to elect certain politicians, trying to change the legal system, all in an effort to get some law passed that come the next election could be overturned is a vast waste of time and resources that could have been dedicated to Christ.

 

Working for worldly laws that are here today and gone tomorrow, which only constrain people by force and moves people to be more secretive about their evils is only a temporal puff of smoke. If the people are still lost sinners they are still doomed to hell, they are still thinking evil in their hearts, they are still likely to commit the sin, the kingdom of God has not been advanced.

 

We can see in Scripture, American history and in the history of the early church and other places, that when Christians actually live in and follow the commands of Christ, the world is turned upside down. Sin and wickedness is cast aside because of changed hearts and lives, not for political expediency and by use of force. Brothels, taverns, gambling halls and other wickedness have all been done away with in towns, cities and regions by the preaching of the Gospel.

 

Using worldly means brings worldly results. Only by following Scripture can we achieve real, eternal results.

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Homosexuality is but one of many sins. True, open homosexuality wasn't tolerated a hundred or more years ago in America as it is today, but other sins were.

 

The way to stand firm against wickedness and sin is to do as Christ commands. That is, living as He said we are to live, so the world sees His light, sees Him rather than us; spreading the Gospel, making disciples, loving one another, gathering together, etc.

 

Scripture tells us our battle is a spiritual battle, not a natural, carnal, fleshly, worldly battle. The only way a Christian can rightly, biblically, stand against sin and wickedness is spiritually, as Scripture tells us.

 

Spending 40 years protesting, donating to politicians, working to elect certain politicians, trying to change the legal system, all in an effort to get some law passed that come the next election could be overturned is a vast waste of time and resources that could have been dedicated to Christ.

 

Working for worldly laws that are here today and gone tomorrow, which only constrain people by force and moves people to be more secretive about their evils is only a temporal puff of smoke. If the people are still lost sinners they are still doomed to hell, they are still thinking evil in their hearts, they are still likely to commit the sin, the kingdom of God has not been advanced.

 

We can see in Scripture, American history and in the history of the early church and other places, that when Christians actually live in and follow the commands of Christ, the world is turned upside down. Sin and wickedness is cast aside because of changed hearts and lives, not for political expediency and by use of force. Brothels, taverns, gambling halls and other wickedness have all been done away with in towns, cities and regions by the preaching of the Gospel.

 

Using worldly means brings worldly results. Only by following Scripture can we achieve real, eternal results.

 

1968 was not a hundred years ago. It occurred because, quote..."All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke. Christians did nothing, they weren't standing for God's truth in opposition nor were they witnessing.
 
Scripture tells us...
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12 This is speaking of the world, it describes positional authority or the office of them. 
 
We have a battle against a raging world. Its a spiritual battle for the hearts of men and against the wickedness of the world.
 
Christ indeed called us to be witnesses...so do it! What are you going to do with the rest of your time? Is it another misguided Christian Liberty to set ourselves for the defense of the gospel? Why did Paul have to set himself for the defense of the gospel, because it was under attack.
 
Being subject to the higher powers doesn't mean to agree with them or acquiesce to them at the expense of the gospel, God's word, and Godly principles from the Bible. Get out in front of them and make a full court press. While they are taking you to task witness to them too.
 
"Brothels, taverns, gambling halls and other wickedness have all been done away with in towns, cities and regions by the preaching of the Gospel." You left off "Abuse of alcohol, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, gambling, murder, stealing..." Yes, revival is what you're talking about among God's people but, the momentum included countless numbers of secular moralists. The wickedness was thwarted by "by the preaching of the Gospel" AND the effect of the gospel on the hearts of men; men were saved, were incensed, got up and moved out, and would not be stopped until they convinced a majority of people (saved and lost) sin was ruining the present dwelling place of Christians and lost alike. The power of the gospel is a change in men. That is American History.
 
We use Godly means to fight a battle with the world. Preach and defend God's word. Works are the result of salvation.

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"Good men" don't make eternal change, only those surrendered to Christ can do that.

 

Scripture is clear that our battle is not with the world, it's with spiritual forces, and we are to conduct our battle there.

 

Colossians 3:1-4

King James Version (KJV)

3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

Philippians 3:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

 

Matthew 6:33

King James Version (KJV)

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

2 Corinthians 10:4

King James Version (KJV)

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

 

Ephesians 6:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

 

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1968 was not a hundred years ago. It occurred because, quote..."All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke. Christians did nothing, they weren't standing for God's truth in opposition nor were they witnessing.

Scripture tells us...
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12 This is speaking of the world, it describes positional authority or the office of them.

We have a battle against a raging world. Its a spiritual battle for the hearts of men and against the wickedness of the world.

Christ indeed called us to be witnesses...so do it! What are you going to do with the rest of your time? Is it another misguided Christian Liberty to set ourselves for the defense of the gospel? Why did Paul have to set himself for the defense of the gospel, because it was under attack.

Being subject to the higher powers doesn't mean to agree with them or acquiesce to them at the expense of the gospel, God's word, and Godly principles from the Bible. Get out in front of them and make a full court press. While they are taking you to task witness to them too.

"Brothels, taverns, gambling halls and other wickedness have all been done away with in towns, cities and regions by the preaching of the Gospel." You left off "Abuse of alcohol, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, gambling, murder, stealing..." Yes, revival is what you're talking about among God's people but, the momentum included countless numbers of secular moralists. The wickedness was thwarted by "by the preaching of the Gospel" AND the effect of the gospel on the hearts of men; men were saved, were incensed, got up and moved out, and would not be stopped until they convinced a majority of people (saved and lost) sin was ruining the present dwelling place of Christians and lost alike. The power of the gospel is a change in men. That is American History.

We use Godly means to fight a battle with the world. Preach and defend God's word. Works are the result of salvation.

Good topic and I agree with what you have said here. Let your actions speak for your deeds, to many spend all their time telling everyone how good they are and no time spreading the gospel. Edited by The Ohio Patriot

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Good topic and I agree with what you have said here. Let your actions speak for your deeds, to many spend all their time telling everyone how good they are and no time spreading the gospel.

Indeed, spread the Gospel and let the light of Christ shine forth in our lives!

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Good topic and I agree with what you have said here. Let your actions speak for your deeds, to many spend all their time telling everyone how good they are and no time spreading the gospel.

 

It could not be any more clear; our battle is with the world and Ephesians 6 plainly points that out.

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"Good men" don't make eternal change, only those surrendered to Christ can do that.

 

Scripture is clear that our battle is not with the world, it's with spiritual forces, and we are to conduct our battle there.

 

Colossians 3:1-4

King James Version (KJV)

3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

Philippians 3:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

 

Matthew 6:33

King James Version (KJV)

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

2 Corinthians 10:4

King James Version (KJV)

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

 

Ephesians 6:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

 

 

John our hope is in Christ,  our battle is here as long as we're bound to this terrestrial ball. I believe you're attempting to use other scripture pertaining to where our hope should be placed. I. also see you'r trying to avert the clear direction of the scripture to be involved with the fight against wickedness in positions of authority in government. I'm going to copy/paste my previous post, I trust the Holy Spirit led me to rightly divide it, please show me how you could possibly divide it any other way.

 

 

Scripture tells us...
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12 This is speaking of the world, it describes positional authority or the office of them. 
 
We have a battle against a raging world. Its a spiritual battle for the hearts of men and against the wickedness of the world.
 
Christ indeed called us to be witnesses...so do it! What are you going to do with the rest of your time? Is it another misguided Christian Liberty to set ourselves for the defense of the gospel? Why did Paul have to set himself for the defense of the gospel, because it was under attack.
 
Being subject to the higher powers doesn't mean to agree with them or acquiesce to them at the expense of the gospel, God's word, and Godly principles from the Bible. Get out in front of them and make a full court press. While they are taking you to task witness to them too.
 
"Brothels, taverns, gambling halls and other wickedness have all been done away with in towns, cities and regions by the preaching of the Gospel." You left off "Abuse of alcohol, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, gambling, murder, stealing..." Yes, revival is what you're talking about among God's people but, the momentum included countless numbers of secular moralists. The wickedness was thwarted by "by the preaching of the Gospel" AND the effect of the gospel on the hearts of men; men were saved, were incensed, got up and moved out, and would not be stopped until they convinced a majority of people (saved and lost) sin was ruining the present dwelling place of Christians and lost alike. The power of the gospel is a change in men. That is American History.
 
We use Godly means to fight a battle with the world. Preach and defend God's word. Works are the result of salvation.

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Ephesians 6:10-18

King James Version (KJV)

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

This entire section is dealing with spiritual matters, not physical, of the flesh or world. Verse 10 points out clearly that our battle is not with flesh and blood (not with the world), it's a spiritual battle. All those listed there are related to spiritual powers.

 

Every aspect dealt with here is in regards to how to confront the spiritual wickedness. The whole armour of God is for spiritual battle, not worldly.

 

When we get caught up fighting battles in this world we have allowed ourselves to become distracted from the real battle. We fight in our own power, not God's.

 

Scripture is very clear here, and elsewhere, that Christians are to avoid worldly entanglements, to separate from the ways of the world, to accept that God's ways are not our ways, that His ways are higher than our ways, and to follow His commands.

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John, I think you have your verses tangled up; but, the isn't the part that surprises me. You have a quote "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood." there is a comma immediately following "blood" not a period. The remainder speaks about positions of authority. I thought I explained this very clearly in previously but now I see a left a loop hole.

 

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

(1) The place our battle is not, is against men...

"flesh and blood." refers to men; it is correct our battle isn't against men. We're to present the gospel and compel men to receive Christ. After the comma following blood is the rest of the verse.

(2) One place where our battle is, against positions in this world...

"but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world" refers to positions of authority and power of this world,

(3) Another place where our battle is, against Satan and his minions...

"against spiritual wickedness in high places."

 

In (1) above there is no battle with men except for their salvation. These are men not spirits.

In (2) above one of the fronts of our battlefield is given "principalities, powers, rulers...of this world," These are positions of power of this world.

In (3) above a second front of our battlefield is given "spiritual wickedness in high places." These high places is the spiritual part of the battlefield.

 

We're fighting a battle on multiple fronts, it's not just our flesh, or Satan, but also those deceived governmental positions working "darkness" not just working in darkness but deceived to the point of working darkness. It is this second group (2) which we can battle by using the law of this world through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This in no way goes against all the scriptures you've posted before. We're relying by faith that Jesus Christ will set all things in order when he returns. We seek a city not built with hands. However, as long as God gives us grace of sense above the deceived and lost we should never either actively or passively acquiesce and certainly never submit to "the darkness of this world." We are allowed to vote and occupy without entangling ourselves in the muck and mire of the world.

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