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I looked at this site and checked out which version they are using. I can't figure out which version these folks are using, but it is NOT KJV. It is a bible filled with Preterist notes. Here is the link to the site:

http://bibleprophecy...eristbible.html

The commentary notes are in PDF. Here is the link to the Bible w/o the notes.

http://www.bibleprop...of_contents.pdf

Here's another link....I think it must be their "Intro" page:

http://www.bibleprophecyfulfilled.org/

BTW, I am NOT promoting this Bible and I am NOT a Preterist in any way, shape or form!

Edited by LindaR

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I disagree with the idea of preterists for a number of reasons. I can't find any historical evidence that John died prior to 70AD but, I can find evidence he died around 96AD. The idea of Great Tribulation is it is the greatest the world has ever seen and it is world-wide involving many things to include destruction. All wasn't fulfilled at 70AD obviously. Another issue is: the source of both Futurism (obviously Daniel's prophecy ended 490 yrs after the decree in Ezra 7) by the Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera and Preterist is the Catholic Jesuits (Jesuit priest Luis de Alcazar) and their teaching in a 900 page work. It is now 2000 yrs since Jesus' resurrection and the rapture hasn't taken place yet. It will at the last trump and that is located easily in REV in plain sight.

We come in error when attempting to make the Bible fit our personal belief system. Within Baptist there are a lot of varying ideas. I know a good Christian pastor that believes the 'great falling away' mentioned in Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thess 2:3 (KJV) Ironically he believes pre-trib and pre-mil. He thinks the falling away is the rapture but the verse says - there's a falling away and the man of sin revealed. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2 Thess 2:4-6 (KJV) Pre-trib says the rapture will occur before the man of sin is revealed best I can tell. Plus it lends to the idea that a temple has to be in Israel before Jesus can return. For this and other reasons I am in agreement with Corie Ten Boom and her expression in 1974.

Far too much variance in the Christian community. Preterits: man of sin was Nero. Futurist: man of sin comes after the rapture and is revealed in the temple ------ both of these doctrines accomplish the Jesuit goal of removing the Pope as an Antichrist.

I have methodist friends whom I think are saved, but with different doctrines even within the Methodist community. Same goes for Pentecostals and Presbyterians.

When I became saved (Jan 5, 1972 ~8:30PM) I arose from the alter and going to the alter announced by acceptance of Jesus and the wonder feeling - I was still wet with sweat. Walked out of church that evening so happy and talking to everybody for about 30 minutes and said - OK, where do we go now. In my mind I was in and with my family and we should be together. I was told to go home ;-D. Then I started attending church ~5 times per week, listening to the radio preaching and attending revivals. I was full of error and didn't know beans. It took me 2 yrs to get straightened out mostly.

When and if a Christian is in error we must examine ourselves and try to help. It doesn't mean we have to be perfect first - that won't happen. We can discuss the scriptures with our fellow Christians if they aren't so dogmatic. The modern day philosophies have gotten folks astray. The issue of Catholilcism is confusing to most I think. The introduction of graven images into churches and the like. It is a shame of the lack of teaching: not long ago my son introduced me to a man that had been in the same Baptist church near 40 yrs and teaching ~30 --- he said he kept Sunday the Sabbath day. Our children aren't taught is one of the biggest shames.

Go into some of the cream of the crop, so to speak, Baptist churches and see Ecumenical flags and images of Jesus (If that is truly an image of Jesus, God said don't do it) ANY IMAGE! Members in churches don't get reprimanded for their wickedness, no discipline or the boot. OK; I'll stop now.

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I disagree with the idea of preterists for a number of reasons. I can't find any historical evidence that John died prior to 70AD but, I can find evidence he died around 96AD.

I do not know of any Preterist claims that John died before AD 70. Preterism teaches that he wrote Revelation before AD 70. The internal evidence agrees with a writing date before AD 70. Historical evidence for a late date of writing is ambiguous as to whether "he" (John) or "it" (John's vision) was referred to by Polycarp & quoted by Irenaeus writing in Greek & translated into Latin 200 years later.

The idea of Great Tribulation is it is the greatest the world has ever seen and it is world-wide involving many things to include destruction. All wasn't fulfilled at 70AD obviously.

Jesus predicted great tribulation in a prophecy of the temple destruction - including the destruction of Jerusalem. His directions are clear that when the Christians see the signs they should flee into the mountains. History records that they did, & so escaped the great tribulation that accompanied teh destruction. Why do you say that the GT is world-wide? Jesus doesn't.

Another issue is: the source of both Futurism (obviously Daniel's prophecy ended 490 yrs after the decree in Ezra 7) by the Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera and Preterist is the Catholic Jesuits (Jesuit priest Luis de Alcazar) and their teaching in a 900 page work.

I agree the 490 years ended 490 years after the decree, therefore around AD 35. That coincides with two great events - the martyrdom of Stephen, when the Holy Ghost through Stephen declared the Jews uncircumcised. The implication is that as a result of the absolute rejection of their Messiah by the Jewish leaders, they were no longer circumcised in God's sight. The old covenant was irrevocably broken. (Gen. 17) At about the same time, the Gospel was opened to the Gentiles (Cornelius) without circumcision.

What the Jesuits have to do with what Scripture teaches I have no idea - it is not relevant to a Scripture study. What I believe comes from the Bible.

The RCs belief is expressed simply in the Apostles' Creed - "He ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick & the dead." The fact that RCs believe something doesn't make it wrong. Preterism certainly doesn't mean that the Papacy is not antichrist - they continue the line of many antichrists.

It is now 2000 yrs since Jesus' resurrection and the rapture hasn't taken place yet. It will at the last trump and that is located easily in REV in plain sight.

Again, why should I disagree? That leaves open a detailed interpretation of Revelation, both to see how the prophecies directly apply to AD 70, & to see how the continuing principles apply down the ages. The destruction of Jerusalem did not end the spiritual warfare - Rome - first the empire, then the RC church continued the war against Christ & his church. That warfare will continue & intensify until Jesus returns for resurrection & judgment at the last trumpet.

We come in error when attempting to make the Bible fit our personal belief system. .....
I could not agree more.

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Conenanter; obviously to me is that you are a sincere student of the Bible. I think you are honest. I am very short on time at the moment.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 24:2 (KJV) Agree; happened in 70AD.

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 24:3 (KJV) Obviously the question is; when are you coming and when is the end of the world.

All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 24:8-14 (KJV) The killing and tribulation has never stopped. Since JFK ~100mm have been killed. Vs 14 didn't happen at 70AD. The end hasn''t come but we are on the threshold as the first part of v14 has been fulfilled.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matt 24:30-31 (KJV) And here is the rapture. OK, I do not have a full unterstanding of what your exacts beliefs are; point one. We know that we are waiting on Jesus to come, watching and praying for His return.

From what I have read of you; you are comfortable in you salvation - I know in mine. I take it that you are a brother in Christ Jesus. It appears to me that there is evidence that John's writing was after the destruction.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming
Matt 24:42-48 (KJV) Christians have always suffered tribulation. But, the period of Great Tribulation is an end-time prophesy of things to happen just prior to the rapture [Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition 2 Thess 2:3 (KJV)]. We now see that great falling away and very possibly the man of sin being revealed. It appears that a teaching of removing the 70th week of Daniel and making it about Antichrist (Lucifer in the temple) after the rapture is like saying that a temple has to be build before Jesus can return. I think Jesus can come at any time - NOW or tomorrow or. The 70 week were determined and sealed.

The Jesuit teaching has nothing to do with scripture although they use it to teach the end time revelation of Lucifer to remove heat from the pope. They use scripture to attempt to make it fit their belief system.

I think REV is clear on the period of time from Jesus to NOW and beyond to New Heaven and New Earth. It tells all of the time from Jesus to the end and basically HOW. However the Jesuit teaching has been influenced so heavily in seminaries through JN Darby and CI Scofield, it becomes difficult to see through their error. It doesn't make our fellow brethren false prophets but rather in error. If you once know the error and continue in it, then I think you are in trouble.

Not just that; but, the Christ Mass, the tree, yule tide season and such bunk has no place in the churches The whole of the Catholic bunk needs tossing. I will not have that bunk in my house; nor does me or my wife put up the tree of idolatry or give gifts or observe christmas or the Mass in any form. Why fear satan; santa or whatever you wish to call him. If you get the idea I'm Baptist; I am Baptist for a reason - we are the doctrinally correct Christians. Some are in error with Ecumenical flags and pagan holidays and many in error through ignorance.

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Sam, you quote "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Matt 24:3 (KJV) Obviously the question is; when are you coming and when is the end of the world.


Obviously, but not as obviously as you think. What did they mean by "coming" and "world" ?

Jesus has previously warned of a coming to judge the husbandmen:
Mat. 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do u
nt
o those husbandmen?

41 They say u
nt
o him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard u
nt
o
ot
her husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

That "coming" is AD 70. Luke confirms that, & the chief priests and the scribes agree.
20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to
ot
hers. And when they heard [it], they said, God forbid.

.....

19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.


How extensive is "the world" and what "world" will end with the destruction? The obvious contextual answer is the old covenant world or age, which is coming to an end when the new covenant is ushered in. The OC symbols of temple & sacrifice, even Jerusalem, are part of a passing world - age or "dispensation."
Mat. 12: 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Luke 20:34
And Jesus answering said u
nt
o them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accou
nt
ed worthy to
ob
tain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:



Another use of world is lots of people:
John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail n
ot
hing? behold, the world is gone after him.


And the Roman Empire:
Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there we
nt
out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.


"World" has a range of meanings in English, & "world" is the translation of 3 different Gk words.

The Mat. 24 context is the absolute end of all the symbols of the old covenant - God graciously allowed that generation about 40 years to repent.
Heb. 3:
6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm u
nt
o the end.

7
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8
Harden n
ot
your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have n
ot
known my ways.

11
So I sware in my wrath, They shall n
ot
e
nt
er i
nt
o my rest.)
Edited by Covenanter

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Interesting and admirable that you study and read to the extent that you do; however...... :knuppel:


How extensive is "the world" and what "world" will end with the destruction? The obvious contextual answer is the old covenant world or age, which is coming to an end when the new covenant is ushered in. The OC symbols of temple & sacrifice, even Jerusalem, are part of a passing world - age or "dispensation."
Mat. 12: 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Adrian's wall in England, Spain, Italyotidy and farther parts - way outside the confine of Israel. Obviously it could not mean Israel alone.

Luke 20:34
And Jesus answering said u
nt
o them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accou
nt
ed worthy to
ob
tain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

As I recall there's the issue of the 144,000.................. Where do you fit them? Not many worthy in that category.

Another use of world is lots of people:

John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail n
ot
hing? behold, the world is gone after him.
The number of Passovers where Jews from all over came to Jerusalem each year; were exposed and we
nt
home. Jesus was through many Passovers.


And the Roman Empire:

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there we
nt
out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
And word arrived in Egypt and all over - the Brits were n
ot
required to travel to Rome; nor were the Jews.

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For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matt 24:27-31 (KJV)
His elect are Christians - not Jews. from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other ------- the complete planet. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28-29 (KJV) One may get the idea that your history is also after Jesus resurrected and even after Pentecost. I also get the idea that James was in the temple. Jesus made the animal sacrifice in/at a temple with an eagle planted on it of none effect. By 66AD one may think that ~50,000 Jews were now Christian and having Christian activities at the temple. Reasonable?

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Very good Invicta........ who's gonna pull the knife out? I still kinda like the Scofield reference even if it is not my favorite. It may not be a sin to read a commentary; but, I could be wrong. Leading to passages use to be a good source of reference and a lot of help may be had. Now with the computer and search engines to zap to scripture is so easy and fast. As noted, the references from scripture to scripture is one thing............. commentaries are another completely issue. Anyone know of a good one?

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Sam, Please read prophetic scriptures carefully, You have misquoted scripture here


I disagree with the idea of preterists for a number of reasons. I can't find any historical evidence that John died prior to 70AD but, I can find evidence he died around 96AD. The idea of Great Tribulation is it is the greatest the world has ever seen and it is world-wide involving many things to include destruction. All wasn't fulfilled at 70AD obviously. Another issue is: the source of both Futurism (obviously Daniel's prophecy ended 490 yrs after the decree in Ezra 7) by the Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera and Preterist is the Catholic Jesuits (Jesuit priest Luis de Alcazar) and their teaching in a 900 page work. It is now 2000 yrs since Jesus' resurrection and the rapture hasn't taken place yet. It will at the last trump and that is located easily in REV in plain sight.




Scripture does not say "Great Tribulation is it is the greatest the world has ever seen", but "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" It was a difference in type rather than intensity. I cannot remember the reference, but there was a similar comment in the OT on Neb's destruction of Jerusalem. 'Such' was not used but 'as' was.

I take back the above comment as I have done a search and cannot find it. I must have remembered incorrectly.

Edited by Invicta

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It is not a point of argument: it is the greatest that ever will be seen ---- ever shall. In one wants to call it Great Tribulation - there is no commandment against it as far as I know. Neither is it a sin to use the word rapture; or so I think.

We are seeing 100,000,000 Christians killed since JFK. It is estimated that the catholics killed that many over a 1500 yr period ---- fairly great number I would say but you may say huge number. No need to major on the minor.......... or you could be right.

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Very good Invicta........ who's gonna pull the knife out? I still kinda like the Scofield reference even if it is not my favorite. It may not be a sin to read a commentary; but, I could be wrong. Leading to passages use to be a good source of reference and a lot of help may be had. Now with the computer and search engines to zap to scripture is so easy and fast. As noted, the references from scripture to scripture is one thing............. commentaries are another completely issue. Anyone know of a good one?


Also the charismatic bible of Oral Roberts call The Abundant Life Version.

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Yes; there's a bunch of ________ :coverlaugh: _________: pardon me, (swallowed a gnat - hack/hack), nuts out there. Hey; wait a minute - I resemble err resent that.

May be a nut; but, screw onto the right bolt :godisgood: what about Jimmy :badday: Braggart?

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When one gets saved its a delicate time, its so easy to fall in to the hand of false teachers. Because there's so many of them, & the access to false teachers has never been greater than it is today.

I recall watching Shepherds Chapel many years ago on satellite TV. For a short time I thought I had found something good After watching him for only a short time I became suspicious & soon I found my suspicious true.

Now days we not only have TV & radio, we have the internet. And as the saying goes, they're coming out of the wood work. And they have invaded the once very good Bible Book stores.

Another one I thought of, Gene Scott, I saw him on satellite TV many years back. No telling how many he has duped. I know Glen Campbell is one of them. I remember reading an article & Glen said he found God though the great teacher Glen Scott by watching late night TV. Another country singer seems duped by him, in an online obituary, Country singer Merle Haggard, a church member and close friend stated, "Scott an exceptional scholar, & He was the mind that all other brilliant minds looked to for guidance on problems that were insoluble.”

We would probably be surprised at the number of people who would take recommendations from people such as Merle Haggard & Glen Campbell as pointing to true teachers of God.

But we have one thing that we can trust, it will not mislead a child of God, the KJ Bible.

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It is not a point of argument: it is the greatest that ever will be seen ---- ever shall. In one wants to call it Great Tribulation - there is no commandment against it as far as I know. Neither is it a sin to use the word rapture; or so I think.

We are seeing 100,000,000 Christians killed since JFK. It is estimated that the catholics killed that many over a 1500 yr period ---- fairly great number I would say but you may say huge number. No need to major on the minor.......... or you could be right.
Let's not forget the mass murder of over 6,000,000 Jews by Hitler and his army. A lot more than those who died in 70 A.D.

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Let's not forget the mass murder of over 6,000,000 Jews by Hitler and his army. A lot more than those who died in 70 A.D.


Adolph Hitler himself was an Ashkenazi Jew as is Rothschild. But the large majority of Jews killed by Hitler were Ashkenazi Jews. I think most use a 7mm number that were killed. 100 is too many. Corie Ten Boom was a survivor but a Christian.

From studies I've read by two: men who were studying blood line Jews prior to WW II that dropped that study until after WW II said, they had trouble picking up where they left off and years to recover, but it appeared that the blood Jew population dropped by ~300,000. I have no way to verify nor an inclination to verify.

For God so loved the World; not just those born to Jacob. The elect are Christians per scripture. We are under the New Covenant. No need to take a goat to the priest.

Me personally: I find it difficult to call an Ashkenazi Jew who is a descendant of Jephthah, not Shem, a Jew. Only recently (within a few years) the Hebrew University in Israel published their genetic study. ----- The population of Israel by Jews is a vast minority. Of the world's Jewish population today only 10% are real blood line Jews. Calling Barack Obama a Jew will not make him one

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Since all the genealogies have been destroyed in 70AD when the temple was destroyed, how do you know who is an Ashkenazi Jew who is descended from Jephthah? I am a physical descendant of Ashkenazi Jews. Both sets of my grandparents were Orthodox Jews from Russia and Eastern Europe who immigrated to the United States at the end of the 19th century. It's true, that there was alot of inter-marriages, but most Jews, Ashkenazi or Sephardic, KNOW they are Jews. Except for a handful who can trace their lineage back to Levi (we know Levi was a son of Jacob) through their surname, most Jews cannot trace their genealogy back to Jephthah, or any other Jew spoken of in Scriptures. There are no more genealogical records to trace Jews back to their original tribes. Many Jews tried to hide the fact that they were Jews to escape Hitler's concentration camps. So your 10% "real blood line" Jews is pretty much speculation, SamuelP.

Who is saying Barack Obama is a Jew anyway? Certainly not me.

Back to the topic. Prophecy was not fulfilled in 70AD....and the Bible doesn't teach that, unless one "spiritualizes" the entire book of Revelation to "force" the Bible to say that.

Edited by LindaR

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Back to the topic. Prophecy was not fulfilled in 70AD....and the Bible doesn't teach that, unless one "spiritualizes" the entire book of Revelation to "force" the Bible to say that.


Of course not all prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD. but a lot of it was.

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Since all the genealogies have been destroyed in 70AD when the temple was destroyed, how do you know who is an Ashkenazi Jew who is descended from Jephthah? I am a physical descendant of Ashkenazi Jews. Both sets of my grandparents were Orthodox Jews from Russia and Eastern Europe who immigrated to the United States at the end of the 19th century. It's true, that there was alot of inter-marriages, but most Jews, Ashkenazi or Sephardic, KNOW they are Jews. Except for a handful who can trace their lineage back to Levi (we know Levi was a son of Jacob) through their surname, most Jews cannot trace their genealogy back to Jephthah, or any other Jew spoken of in Scriptures. There are no more genealogical records to trace Jews back to their original tribes. Many Jews tried to hide the fact that they were Jews to escape Hitler's concentration camps. So your 10% "real blood line" Jews is pretty much speculation, SamuelP.

Who is saying Barack Obama is a Jew anyway? Certainly not me.

Back to the topic. Prophecy was not fulfilled in 70AD....and the Bible doesn't teach that, unless one "spiritualizes" the entire book of Revelation to "force" the Bible to say that.
----------------------->

Noah and his three sons: Japhet, Shem and Ham................. Jews later follow through Shem.

Ashkenazi Jews were birthed in 740 AD - they are not Jews at all. They are not descendants of Jacob or even Shem. They are descendants of Jephet. The Ashkenazi came along in 740 AD in a location near present day Georgia previously USSR. In 740 AD the King adopted Judahism at the National religon and they began calling themselves Jews - they are not blood - line Jews at all.

This is documented and no speculation at all. It is recorded history.

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----------------------->

Noah and his three sons: Japhet, Shem and Ham................. Jews later follow through Shem.

Ashkenazi Jews were birthed in 740 AD - they are not Jews at all. They are not descendants of Jacob or even Shem. They are descendants of Jephet. The Ashkenazi came along in 740 AD in a location near present day Georgia previously USSR. In 740 AD the King adopted Judahism at the National religon and they began calling themselves Jews - they are not blood - line Jews at all.

This is documented and no speculation at all. It is recorded history.

Where is YOUR documentation for this, SamuelP?

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KJV Bible for Noah and his sons. History for another. Hebrew University in Israel genetic research study and publication. Available on the Internet.

The blood Jews living in Palestine in 1897 rejected the idea of Rothschild's colony and forming of the new Israel and his hexagram flag.

And you are correct about the rebels destroying the records so the Romans couldn't get them.

All should search "The General's Son" his grand parents were heavily involved in 1923 and his father a general in the 6 day war in 1967 - a must.

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Sam, your several replies to my attempt to clarify "world" are somewhat random. Let's try to focus.

You will find there are at least 3 different Gk words translated "world" & there is a world of difference between their use in context. When the ladies use cosmetics, that is kosmos according to 1 Peter 3. Paul in Rom. 16, uses chronos for "while since the world began."

Mat, 24 uses 3 different world words:
3. the end of the world - aiōn
14. preached in all the world - oikoumenē
21 the beginning of the world - kosmos

That is not to "correct" the AV from the Gk, but to seek to understand in context.

Aion & chronos are time related, oikoumene normally refers to the Roman Empire, & kosmos is very varied, - the physical world, people of the world, even the area, & sinful worldliness.

V. 3 is the age that ends with the destruction - i.e. the OC age, aka the dispensation of Law.
V. 14 is the spread of the Gospel through the Empire, as we read in Acts.
V. 21 is the whole world system - creation.

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      I have recently read a few articles on global warming and while I somewhat detest the tree hugger mentality, I do hate the idea of cutting down trees, and love wildlife reserves and such.  My question is this, are the "scientists" who are proclaiming that in the next 30-50 years the heat of our continent's will rise to nearly unbearable temperatures correct and if they are, do you think this is the preparation for events during the tribulation period concerning the trumpets and vials?  I am leaning toward yes in both instances but honestly I would like to read someone who I know can be trusted.
       
      Your thoughts please. 
    • By Ronda
      JEREMIAH 49... I don't see a lot of eschatology being discussed here (other than the millennial kingdom) recently... so I decided to go out on a limb and start a discussion about Jeremiah 49.  I wanted to focus on the specific passages of 35-39, and most specifically upon verse 36. 
      "And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."
      SOMETHING is going to happen in Iran (specifically where Elam used to be which is in what is now Iran).
      It is an area ***"stretching from the lowlands of what is now Khuzestan and Ilam Province as well as a small part of southern Iraq." (*** land description taken from wikipedia... see also map below) 
      I realize that Persia is also listed in Ezekiel 38-39 as one of the nations which is included in the confederacy against Israel.  I do not think it is likely that is part of Ezekiel's prophecy in ch. 38-39, but I do think it COULD precede it, and possibly be a factor in why Persia is listed in the Ezekiel 38-39 confederacy (although the reasons for Ez. 38-39 are more about "taking a spoil")
      So back to Jeremiah 49
      SOMETHING will happen to cause THIS: 
      "... I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, 
      and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation
      whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come." 
      My thought is that it's possible that Iran will attempt to attack Israel. Israel will defend herself and isn't it amazing that the Bushehr site in Iran
       (the very site the nuclear reactor is located) is smack dab in the area where Elam was? 
      Not saying it HAS TO happen that way... and I'm not saying the event HAS to be nuclear... I am just that it COULD happen that way.
      Whatever happens the Lord will be in control of the situation. It does not have to be nuclear, it could be any number of events...and it will be of God's will.
      Whatever happens (nuclear or not) will cause these things to happen (which have not YET happened to a total fulfillment in history):
      1. The Lord "will bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven,"
      2. "and will scatter them toward all those winds;" 
      3. "and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."
      History tells us that Elam was conquered by the Assyrian empire and then later by the Medo-Persian empire.However, that did not drive out all of those people who lived there, but instead they were then under the control of the Medo-Persian empires control, but most continued to live in that same area of land (even though under the rulership of the Medo-Persian empire).
      So I do not believe that being conquered by the Medo-Persian empire fulfills this prophecy since they were not driven off the land, they were not scattered to the 4 quarters, and they haven't (yet) been scattered to all nations.
      Elam is now a part of modern-day Iran. (and in that part of Iran there is a nuclear reactor as well as current plans for the Iranians to build more) I conclude these verses are future events (possibly soon).
      I also would further conclude that verses 38-39 will be fulfilled at an even later time (the millennial reign) because there certainly is NOT a throne of the Lord in Elam, nor has there ever been in past history.
      The only other place in the Bible that a (future) earthly throne of the Lord is mentioned is in reference to Jerusalem. So while I do not claim to have any idea exactly what the throne of the Lord in Elam will be... nor the reason why... I do believe it is true, because the word of God IS true!
      Every past prophecy which was fulfilled was fulfilled exactly as prophecied, to the letter,
      Which means all future prophecy will also be fulfilled exactly as prophecied. 
      I am only giving my opinion of what COULD cause them to be scattered to the 4 quarters, and scattered unto every nation.
      That said... God cannot be boxed into "logical human reasoning" because His ways are far above our ways.
      So I am not stating it HAS to be a nuclear event... it is just a possibility of what could occur to cause such a scattering.
       
      35 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will break the bow of Elam, the chief of their might.
      36 "And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.
      37 "For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies, and before them that seek their life: and I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the Lord; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:
      38 "And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the Lord.
      39 "But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the Lord.
      map image (taken from wikipedia) for the location of where Elam was:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam#/media/File:Elam_Map.jpg
       
      What say ye all?

    • By Ronda
      Hello all... let's talk.  Recently there was a change made to the feed stream of this site.  A few of us are having difficulty finding new posts and so (I think) it may be leading to a lack of discussions.  Many of us came here for fellowship with other IFB friends, brothers, and sisters. The world has a worldly view... But I'm curious as to what do fellow bible believer's think about the following topics, and whether (or not) you think any/all of the topics relate to scripture, if so, why? Thanks for your input as I feel we should "gather together" as we see the day approaching. 
      Here are just a few things I thought of which I don't see being discussed here currently:
      Earthquakes in various places around the globe
      Financial economy troubles around the globe
      China and Russia both pressing for a new world currency
      US public schools took God out/all government buildings removing any reference to God
          and does this relate to the younger generation's rebellion against parents and authority figures
      Do you see these things increasing over the last decade (yes, they've always been around, but have you noticed a marked increase over the last 5-10 years in):
          self-love, gimme now/I deserve everything-for-nothing-attitudes
          covetousness (desiring things that other people have which are beyond your means)
          arrogance, boasting, pride
          cussing, smut on TV even in the commercials
          unthankfulness
          being lied to/betrayed/broken promises all without any signs of remorse
          pleasure-seeking
          mocking of Christians, mocking of the bible, mocking of God and Jesus
          fornication/adultery/perversions such as homosexuality and pedophiles
      Russia and Iran both being right outside Israel's borders in Syria
      CERN
      The LGBT movement and/or gay marriage
      Christian persecution in middle east nations (and or in our/your own)
      False teachers on TV (and in churches)

      Muslim invasion of the world
      Syrian refugee crisis (what do you think of the crisis in Germany, Austria, and other nations. Also what do you think about Obama importing them here to US?)    The "deal" which basically allows Iran to have nukes
      Obama's use of executive orders to bypass Congress
      And if you'd like to discuss any of these things (or other current events), please state if you believe it does or does not pertain to scripture and why.
      Pick a topic... and let's dig in! Thanks
       
    • By PastorMatt
      @Pastor Scott Markle & @Covenanter Seeing now I have more time, I am willing to set up a forum for discussion on Prophecy. If you both agree to this, what type of format and restrictions would you like applied to this forum for your discussion.
    • By MountainChristian
      They believe the rapture took place before 70 AD. We missed it. 
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