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How Do We Know The Baptist Tradition Isn't False?


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Very good and points well taken. I come off pretty gruff.



That is very big of you to acknowledge how you came off. I know that we can all get very passionate about our faith and what we believe; however, we must remember to express that passion in a way that we can teach rather than attack those who do not see things the way you (or anyone) might. When I see people get hostile towards a "non-believer" it makes me back away rather than come closer to the faith. If we take every moment as a teachable moment we can do greater things for the strengthening of others faith. It's love for our brothers and sisters that resonates like nothing else no matter what path they are on. Each person can make a difference in another's life.


"You can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar..." ~G. Torriano
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3-once saved always saved promotes sin
This one always cracks me up. I hear this a lot from Pentacostals that eternal security promotes sin. What astonishes me is how much they tell Baptists that it promotes sin, and then we get accused of being legalists for preaching on sin harder than any other denomination on earth.

And that person that got banned has been banned in here several times under different names, so when I recognize it, I treat him like the idiot he is. It is one thing to have disagreements like I have with Samuel, Covanenter and Invicta who will finally agree with me when all of us are in heaven watching the world collapse while they are looking at each other asking "how did we get here?" LOL, but quite another to have someone deliberately post what they know would agitate members in a Baptist forum. So in that respect, I have no interest in catching bees with honey or vinegar because they "have stings in their tails" and the solution is to swat them according to their folly.
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Hey James........ Seems we disagree on one point ------------ 70th week of Daniel. Seems all the conversation hinges on that one thing. I happen to believe the KJV is God's preserved Bible and is correct, without error or contradiction.

So; Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:24 (KJV) It appears there's no way you can remove the 70th week.

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And that person that got banned has been banned in here several times under different names, so when I recognize it, I treat him like the idiot he is. It is one thing to have disagreements like I have with Samuel, Covanenter and Invicta who will finally agree with me when all of us are in heaven watching the world collapse while they are looking at each other asking "how did we get here?" LOL, but quite another to have someone deliberately post what they know would agitate members in a Baptist forum. So in that respect, I have no interest in catching bees with honey or vinegar because they "have stings in their tails" and the solution is to swat them according to their folly.


I must disagree with you here, James. Calling someone an idiot is not what we should do. We should present the biblical teaching of salvation. We may not always be gentle. 3Luke 2:6 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

And even to a king, (or queen)

2Sa 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man.

Both Peter and Nathan preached the word forcefully, without being being offensive,
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I must disagree with you here, James. Calling someone an idiot is not what we should do. We should present the biblical teaching of salvation. We may not always be gentle. 3Luke 2:6 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

And even to a king, (or queen)

2Sa 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man.

Both Peter and Nathan preached the word forcefully, without being being offensive,


Amen, Calling anyone stupid, or an idiot, helps nothing nor no one, yet many do this when referring to those they disagree with. I think most people do this because of a lack of defense.
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3-once saved always saved promotes sin
This one always cracks me up. I hear this a lot from Pentacostals that eternal security promotes sin. What astonishes me is how much they tell Baptists that it promotes sin, and then we get accused of being legalists for preaching on sin harder than any other denomination on earth.

And that person that got banned has been banned in here several times under different names, so when I recognize it, I treat him like the idiot he is. It is one thing to have disagreements like I have with Samuel, Covanenter and Invicta who will finally agree with me when all of us are in heaven watching the world collapse while they are looking at each other asking "how did we get here?" LOL, but quite another to have someone deliberately post what they know would agitate members in a Baptist forum. So in that respect, I have no interest in catching bees with honey or vinegar because they "have stings in their tails" and the solution is to swat them according to their folly.


Hey James........ Seems we disagree on one point ------------


I must disagree with you here, James.


I must admit...I laughed pretty hard when I saw this! Simply because they were the next two posts after DrJamesA's! Perhaps Covanenter hasn't seen this thread yet... Edited by Fixation
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Typically, once someone has been called an idiot, or something similar, there is no more chance of reaching them with the truth. Once such charges are made shields of defense are raised, outrage erupts as part of that defense, and they will not hear whatever is said.

Even if we think such a thing, better for our witness to not say it. If we believe we have reached a point where there is no point continuing to try and speak with someone, best to simply walk away and pray the Holy Ghost may be able to use someone else to reach them rather than possibly poisoning the well before we go.

I noticed a witnessing thread, and this relates to that, in that I've witnessed to folks who have encountered Christians who insulted them because they asked questions or because they held other views or because they didn't want to "say a prayer". After such encounters they didn't want to hear any other Christian trying to "share Jesus" with them. A rare few I was finally able to speak with, but the rest were all hardened and instantly defensive, unwilling to risk further insult by hearing a Christian witness to them.

Whatever we say should be with the intent of helping another come to Christ. We will be judged for every idle word we say, and knowing all the unhelpful things that have come out of my mouth over the years, that's scary.

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John81, that sounds a lot like the old soul winning tactic of winning them to yourself first, then to Christ. If I call a man an idiot, I don't really plan on witnessing to him again soon, I figure the Word of God convicts whther he knows he's an idiot or not!

With that said, I have called some an idiot, and they still listened to me. They did not like it at first, of course, but no one wants to think he's stupid, so they come back and ask why I said that, etc. It has opened doors for me. Mind you, I did it as last resort at the time. Those I dealt with were drunkards and dopers, and had that "party" mentality; they did not mind calling me every name in the book, Let me relate one instance:
During "break time" at the factory i worked at, we sat at a picnic table for our short breaks. One day, the table was crowded, and my job allowed me to get off a little early, so I sat down to read my Bible. When the line stopped for break a whole passle of my workmates came and sat all around me. They lit up a jont and passed it around; soon they handed it to me. I noticed all eyes were on me to see what I would do, so I took it and "field stripped" it (an army term that means wringing it with your fingers until all the {tabacco} or marijuana came out. The guy that handed it to me stood up with his jaw hanging down, and said "Do you know how much that stuff cost me?" I told him I didn't but neither did I care to know. another guy called be a terrible name, and I told them all "When you gave it to me, it was mine to do with as I pleased. If you don't want it destroyed, don't offer it" By then it was time to go back to work, so that ended that little episode, but there was more to come all the time I worked there.

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Typically, once someone has been called an idiot, or something similar, there is no more chance of reaching them with the truth. Once such charges are made shields of defense are raised, outrage erupts as part of that defense, and they will not hear whatever is said.

Even if we think such a thing, better for our witness to not say it. If we believe we have reached a point where there is no point continuing to try and speak with someone, best to simply walk away and pray the Holy Ghost may be able to use someone else to reach them rather than possibly poisoning the well before we go.

I noticed a witnessing thread, and this relates to that, in that I've witnessed to folks who have encountered Christians who insulted them because they asked questions or because they held other views or because they didn't want to "say a prayer". After such encounters they didn't want to hear any other Christian trying to "share Jesus" with them. A rare few I was finally able to speak with, but the rest were all hardened and instantly defensive, unwilling to risk further insult by hearing a Christian witness to them.

Whatever we say should be with the intent of helping another come to Christ. We will be judged for every idle word we say, and knowing all the unhelpful things that have come out of my mouth over the years, that's scary.


Amen & amen.

John, This is just my humble opinion, but those who go around calling people stupid, or an idiot, seem to gloat in being above those they use such names against. And instead to planting a seed, they harden that persons hearts for al Christians that comes after them.

And when the words stupid & idiot are used against someone, its just does not seem to follow theses verses from the Holy Scriptures.

Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Pr 25:11 ¶ A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.


Pr 10:31 ¶ The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out.
Pr 10:32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness.

Once the word stupid, or idiot leaves a persons mouth pointed towards someone else, I just cannot understand how that can be heard as edifying, nor that that person is ministering grace unto the hearers of their words
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Amen, Calling anyone stupid, or an idiot, helps nothing nor no one, yet many do this when referring to those they disagree with. I think most people do this because of a lack of defense.

We must be careful - Scriptural - when we call someone a fool (or idiot.) How does the Bible help us identify fools? There are many examples of folly. Just a few:

The atheist - Ps 14;
Prov. 1 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
14 Fools make a mock at sin
15 A fool despiseth his father's instruction
EZE. 13 Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Mat 7 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Luke 24 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken
The unthankful - Rom. 1 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Not believing in the resurrection - 1 Cor. 15 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
To turn from Christ to Judaism & the Law - Gal. 3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

We do need to recognise fools & foolishness, though not to use "fool" as an insult, but rather as a rebuke & warning. Remember that we were once foolish before repentance. We are dependent on God's grace for our salvation AND our God-given wisdom.
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To be on the safe side: call no man a fool. A fool is one bound for Hell.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:22 (KJV)

We do not know the future of the unsaved (s/he may become saved and therefore a brother) --- but a brother ------------- absolutely do not!

Edited by SamuelP
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We must be careful - Scriptural - when we call someone a fool (or idiot.) How does the Bible help us identify fools? There are many examples of folly. Just a few:

The atheist - Ps 14;
Prov. 1 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
14 Fools make a mock at sin
15 A fool despiseth his father's instruction
EZE. 13 Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Mat 7 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Luke 24 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken
The unthankful - Rom. 1 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Not believing in the resurrection - 1 Cor. 15 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
To turn from Christ to Judaism & the Law - Gal. 3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

We do need to recognise fools & foolishness, though not to use "fool" as an insult, but rather as a rebuke & warning. Remember that we were once foolish before repentance. We are dependent on God's grace for our salvation AND our God-given wisdom.


Yes, & we can do that, but never go around calling people fools to their face, God can get away with it, but you & I cannot. And surely never call them an idiot or stupid.

Sure, I will say, I've done stupid, foolish things, I may say I even acted like an idiot, & most others will say the same about their self at times, but don't do so towards others.

A wise old pastor told me once many years ago, never call anyone a fool, after you do so you will never gain that person as a friend & if he is your friend, your apt to lose him & he shall forever have a cold heart towards you.
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Let me say, first of all that I can remember only one time that I actually called a man a fool, and he was, and he knew it. I cannot relate the instance because it is too vulgar to repeat. There were probably more though, I don't recall.

Now, those of you who have trouble with calling a man a fool, do a study on the word. You'll find 69 verses that use the word "fool" in the entire Bible; "fools" 42 verses; and "foolish" 52 verses also.

Some of these were Christ calling others fools. Did He do wrong?

Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Lk. 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Lk. 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
and in a parable:
Luk 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

Paul called some fools:
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Again in Hosea God calls some a fool:
Hos 9:7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

He says that the Prophet is a fool!

The Psalmist teaches us that there is a time to call a fool a fool, and a time not to.
Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

If a man acts like a fool what is he?
"fool" can refer to the deeds he does, or his being, both are proper renderings of the word.

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