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Hail Mary Prayer In The 1611 Kjv Bible ?


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Folks, Adamski is a troll. He has spammed almost 100 names to the members list. Go and check the "New Content" in the Members link. It would probably be a good idea to cease conversing with Adamski and report him to Bro. Matt.

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We have a Bible thanks only to our Lord, not the Catholics, if the Catholics had their way no one would have had a Bible outside of the leaders of the RCC. Please, please stop trying to rob God of His

The Irish - I hope all know Patrick was not Catholic. The first mention of him by Catholics was 174 yrs after his death. It is interesting to trace his history; Patrick was Baptist. The Cat-a-h

I know that you'd like to think of him as Catholic, but again you don't know your history. The Roman church didn't even begin to assert its influence until late in the 2nd century. It exerted nothin

The Catholic Inquisition is still alive today. The Catholics have murder Christians since their inception in the fourth century.

Now look at Adamski ---- his spirit is haughty and evil, The Papal Bulls have gone against the true and living God. Their Vicar of god the pope (Vicar means one who stands in place of) is the god of this world per his words - no power. The are Baal worshipers and Lucifer is their god. They still subscribe to the Nicoliatans' doctrine and practice it today. He is an evil child of satan -a priest in a sodomite community claiming they can forgive sin They are purely Antichrist. This guy would murder your family if he could. He expounds lie after lie ----------- this is not a game! You will be judged for your words and deeds.

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Folks, Adamski is a troll. He has spammed almost 100 names to the members list. Go and check the "New Content" in the Members link. It would probably be a good idea to cease conversing with Adamski and report him to Bro. Matt.


Where is the moderator ---- this guy is a Satanist priest. Popery is Antichrist. Catholics are not Christian. He is a God hating infidel carrying out the work and bidding of his father - the devil.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Matt 23:9-12 (KJV)
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Where is the moderator ---- this guy is a Satanist priest. Popery is Antichrist. Catholics are not Christian. He is a God hating infidel carrying out the work and bidding of his father - the devil.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Matt 23:9-12 (KJV)

I reported him to BroMatt and I would suggest that everybody else do the same. I'm sure BroMatt will take care of the situation.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Edited by LindaR
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Go to catholic answers web site to learn about the church that Jesus Christ founded

Matt 16:18

Sola scriptora not in the bible
The catholic church wrote the bible

1 Tim 3:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Popery did write a Bible, the Rheims and others. What our proud, knowing-nothing and foolish visitor doesn't realize is that the Popery has written a great many bibles and they contradict each other.

God preserved his Word in the English language with the King James Bible. The Received Text was written by Christians, the church at Antioch which sent out Paul and Barnabas, the others by gnostics and heretics in Egypt, an evil land then and now.

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"And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil" (Luke 11:1-4)

Herein is the model prayer, given by request of Jesus to His disciples when they ask Him to teach them how to pray. Some, like Catholics, say it by rote, over and over again until it has no more meanng, but this is not what it was intended for: t was a road map of prayer, a recipie of ingredients for how to pray.

Notice the begining of it: "When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven..." Jesus direct instructions for how we are to pray is directly to the Father-not to Jesus, nor the Spirit, nor to ask anyone else who has died in Christ to pray for them, (which in itself would be classified as a prayer, since a prayer is, by definition, a request). We have no need to go to someone else to get to God.

Tha being said, is there any problem with seeking others to pray for you? Of course not, in fact, we are encouraged to pray for one another, but nowhere are we encouraged to seek those who have passed before us to pray for us, not Mary, not Paul, not anyone. To do so is absolutely anti-biblcal. As well, when we seek someone to pray for us, we are really asking to pray WITH us, in conjucntion with our prayers, not to mediate for us, but to interced for them. A big difference.

Did Moses and Elijah appear on the mount with Jesus? Absolutely. Did they teach the disciples anything there, or pray for them? Nope, By all appearance they completely ignored them and spokme with Jesus concerning His pending death. They didn't even pray for Jesus, just spoke with Him. To assume anything else is to add to the testimony of the disciples and the word of God.

And again I ask, why are we giving this heretick the time of day?

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One Mediator

Another charge commonly levelled against asking the saints for their intercession is that this violates the sole mediatorship of Christ, which Paul discusses: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).

But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.


Asking any dead person to pray for you is just error. Yes, every scripture you use is evidence God asks those Christians who are ALIVE to pray for one another. Do you stop to think when you read these scriptures or just read the notes added by the Roman Church?

I would not have banned this person. If we used this opportunity wisely, we may have had an occasion to see God's word correct him; see him get saved and sharpen our own sword for future Romanist encounters.
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Go to catholic answers web site to learn about the church that Jesus Christ founded

Matt 16:18

Sola scriptora not in the bible
The catholic church wrote the bible

1 Tim 3:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


Matt 16:18 Jesus is always called the rock. A fock is the foundation upon whch things were built. 1Cor 3:11, "For other foundation can no man lay, than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ". Jesus is the rock, the foundation upon which the church and our salvation is built. He founded it upon the Apostles, (all of them),

Paul was the apostles to the Gentiles. It was Paul who preached to Rome, Peter is never mentioned being there, even in Paul's letter to the Romans, which would be odd if Peter was truly the bishop of Rome, that Paul would not salute him in his epistle. Paul did not recognize any authority of Peter over him, and in fact, withstood him publicly when Peter was in error.

Sola Scriptura? Ps 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." The word of God is greater even than the name of God. No tradition, no canon, no papal bull can ever take precedence over it. To teach the traditions of men as equal to, or superior to, the holy word of God is blasphemous, and it is one thing Jesus condemned the Pharisees for.

And the Catholic church was not in existence when the Bible was written-more than half was written between 300-1800 years before, and the rest, the NT, was written by the NT writers hundreds of years before there was a Roman Catholic institution. Certainly, in time, they produced translations of it, but they certainly didn't write it.

The RCC has more in common with Nimrod and ancient Babylon than with biblical Christianity.

Adamski, you need to be saved from your sin, and rescued from the wickedness of the Catholic cult. You need to understand that there is no salvation anywhere but in Jesus Christ. NO man can forgive your sins, no one died for you save Jesus, who paid the price for all sin, for all time. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:7-9) Notice, we are saved by grace through faith alone, but saved UNTO good works; the works follow after salvation, but have nothing to do with obtaining salvation. Edited by Ukulelemike
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Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Matt 12:31 (KJV)

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matt 12:31-32 (KJV)

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:17 (KJV) This alone lets you know its importance.

God moved upon this work; we are reading the words of God..... God breathed, Holy Ghost given...... Dangerous ground to say a word against the Bible. Given by the Holy Ghost.

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So, has our dear little friend departed? He starts a contentious thread and doesn't stay to see how it goes? I'm certainly not a moderator, nor would I want to be, but this fellow is obviously here to start arguments and then run-maybe he should go? IMHO, of course.


He has been banned.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Saints are not the departed whom the Pope "saintifized" (I just made the word up :) ). 

All true believers in Christ are Saints. 

Since I will not teach this, would someone please show Mel from the Bible what I mean?

I don't think Mel got past the previous answer to his question.

 

Mel, notice in the opening addresses to many of the epistles, they are addressed to the saints (who are living people). None of these saints are beatified by anyone...they were living. We're saints too without any church deifying us; Christ deified when we received him as Lord and Savior through his shed blood at Calvary. If you want to see something awe-striking look at Revelation 1:1-6 and pay close attention to verse 5.

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Yes, out of the angel's hand; not out of the hand of a man.

Is it theoretically possible for those in heaven, saints and angels, to be praying to Jesus on our behalf? Similar to if I ask you to pray for me. When I use the word "pray" I use it in the literal sense "to petition or ask" not in the worship sense. Since heaven is not bound by time or space when I read Revelation 8:4 I picture saints praying on our behalf (as well as worshipping God) because saints are more alive than we are.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Is it theoretically possible for those in heaven, saints and angels, to be praying to Jesus on our behalf? Similar to if I ask you to pray for me. When I use the word "pray" I use it in the literal sense "to petition or ask" not in the worship sense. Since heaven is not bound by time or space when I read Revelation 8:4 I picture saints praying on our behalf (as well as worshipping God) because saints are more alive than we are.

No. Angels are created beings with assigned tasks from God. The departed dead have no special "powers" (for lack of a better term at the moment) to see us, to know what we are doing, to know who we are, to have any idea about our lives.

 

Scripture is very clear that followers of Christ on earth may pray for one another and we know the Holy Ghost helps in our prayers and that Christ intercedes for us. That's it.

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No. Angels are created beings with assigned tasks from God. The departed dead have no special "powers" (for lack of a better term at the moment) to see us, to know what we are doing, to know who we are, to have any idea about our lives.

 

Scripture is very clear that followers of Christ on earth may pray for one another and we know the Holy Ghost helps in our prayers and that Christ intercedes for us. That's it.

I see what you're saying. I'm just using deductive reasoning. For instance in Revelation 5:8, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours (bowls of incense), which are the prayers of saints." The 24 elders are humans that are in heaven and they are holding these golden vials that are the prayers of saints. The word saint is typically used for humans that are in heaven, not on earth. In Revelation 8:3-4 it depicts angels doing the same thing, offering up the prayers of the saints before the Lamb of God. The only thing I'm aware of the Bible is against is if we attempted to conjure up dead people. That would be bad.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I see what you're saying. I'm just using deductive reasoning. For instance in Revelation 5:8, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours (bowls of incense), which are the prayers of saints." The 24 elders are humans that are in heaven and they are holding these golden vials that are the prayers of saints. The word saint is typically used for humans that are in heaven, not on earth. In Revelation 8:3-4 it depicts angels doing the same thing, offering up the prayers of the saints before the Lamb of God. The only thing I'm aware of the Bible is against is if we attempted to conjure up dead people. That would be bad.

Where do you get the idea the word saints refers most to those in heaven? If you read the Bible it's clear that anyone born again in Christ is a "saint" and believers on earth are often referred to as saints.

 

A saint is simply someone born again in Christ, not someone who has attained a special status or elevation granting them a special title.

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Asking any dead person to pray for you is just error. Yes, every scripture you use is evidence God asks those Christians who are ALIVE to pray for one another. Do you stop to think when you read these scriptures or just read the notes added by the Roman Church?

I would not have banned this person. If we used this opportunity wisely, we may have had an occasion to see God's word correct him; see him get saved and sharpen our own sword for future Romanist encounters.

Are saints in heaven considered dead or alive?

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Where do you get the idea the word saints refers most to those in heaven? If you read the Bible it's clear that anyone born again in Christ is a "saint" and believers on earth are often referred to as saints.

 

A saint is simply someone born again in Christ, not someone who has attained a special status or elevation granting them a special title.

That is very insightful. What verses mention saints on earth? I didn't mean they have any special power or status. Just that they are alive with (and in) Christ in heaven and if they are alive then they would want to pray for us in heaven just like they would on earth.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Many of the epistles in the greetings and salutations mention "the saints at" and name a city where a church was established.

In one respect, what the saved in heaven do day to day is of little interest to us here and now. If they do talk to the Lord about us (and the Bible never mentions that as far as I know), then it is entirely of their own volition.
We are never told to seek out them to entreat the Lord on our behalf.
And since every saved person can "come boldly to the throne of Grace" we have no need to anyway.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Psalms 106:16 They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the LORD.

 

1 Samuel 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

 

2 Chronicles 6:41 Now therefore arise, O LORD God, into thy resting place, thou, and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness.

Philippians 4:21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.

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Psalms 16:3 But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

 

Psalms 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

 

Psalms 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

 

Psalms 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

 

Psalms 85:8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

 

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

 

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

 

Acts 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

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Are saints in heaven considered dead or alive?

They are certaily alive, but are considered 'asleep' in Christ, meaning, they are unconscious of what is transpiring here, at least in a manner where they might have any power over what occurs. Their labors of this life are completed. Nothing in the Bible ever suggests we are to pray to, or speak to, any who have gone before us.

 

Consider Saul-his great final sin was to call up Samuel to speak to him, as the Lord had not answered him, having been rejected by the Lord-he had to go to a witch, a necromancer, to do this and break his own laws to do so. And in this case, the Lord allowed Saul to actually speak to Samuel and was only told that by the end of that day, both he and his son, Jonathan, would be dead.  Doesn't sound like an endorsement to ask those who have passed before us anything at all.

Edited by Ukulelemike
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They are certaily alive, but are considered 'asleep' in Christ, meaning, they are unconscious of what is transpiring here, at least in a manner where they might have any power over what occurs. Their labors of this life are completed. Nothing in the Bible ever suggests we are to pray to, or speak to, any who have gone before us.

 

Consider Saul-his great final sin was to call up Samuel to speak to him, as the Lord had not answered him, having been rejected by the Lord-he had to go to a witch, a necromancer, to do this and break his own laws to do so. And in this case, the Lord allowed Saul to actually speak to Samuel and was only told that by the end of that day, both he and his son, Jonathan, would be dead.  Doesn't sound like an endorsement to ask those who have passed before us anything at all.

When I read Revelation 5:8 it sounds like the saints in heaven are alive and awake. "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." These are people in heaven, the elders and the saints, receiving prayers and taking them to God.

 

It also happens again in Revelation 8:3-4 "And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand." The angels are doing the same thing, receiving prayers from the saints (which are outside of time and space so they can hear multiple prayers from multiple people at one time) in heaven and taking them to God.

 

We see in Matthew 17:3 when Jesus is on the Mount of Transfiguration he is talking to Moses and Elijah who have been dead for a very long time. Jesus isn't against contacting those who have past on to heaven, He did it himself. What God is against as mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:10–11 is manipulation or conjuration of dead people. Saints are more alive than we are, if they were sleeping or un-conscious Jesus would not have been able to talk to Moses and Elijah. Granted they were in "Abraham's Bossom" at the time, still remains that they were awake and conscious, and carrying on a fascinating conversation I would imagine. You have Moses, the old Exodus, and Jesus the new Exodus.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Is it theoretically possible for those in heaven, saints and angels, to be praying to Jesus on our behalf? Similar to if I ask you to pray for me. When I use the word "pray" I use it in the literal sense "to petition or ask" not in the worship sense. Since heaven is not bound by time or space when I read Revelation 8:4 I picture saints praying on our behalf (as well as worshipping God) because saints are more alive than we are.

 

The Bible does not tell us this happens. So if someone teaches that, they're not teaching Bible truths.

 

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

In order to pleas God we must abide & live by what is written in the Holy Bible. And as the verses states, we will be judge by what is written in the Holy Bible.

 

Now, with that said, the saved person has only one mediator between him & God, & that is Jesus Christ.

 

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

And the saved person is assured.

 

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

That whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

We are never instructed to pray to, through, those who have died in Christ, we are not told they will be our mediators, only Jesus will mediate between the save person & God.

 

Stick to the Bible, not teachings of man. 

 

Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

​Here in this verse it clearly states, they were teaching to doctrines of men, for the doctrine of God, & God was not accepting their worship. Stay safe, stick to Bible teachings, & be sure you use verses in proper context as well.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Bible isn't totally clear what the saints are doing in heaven. One thing we know is that they are not receiving prayers.

 

When I read Revelation 5:8 it sounds like the saints in heaven are alive and awake. "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." These are people in heaven, the elders and the saints, receiving prayers and taking them to God.

 

It also happens again in Revelation 8:3-4 "And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand." The angels are doing the same thing, receiving prayers from the saints (which are outside of time and space so they can hear multiple prayers from multiple people at one time) in heaven and taking them to God.

 

We see in Matthew 17:3 when Jesus is on the Mount of Transfiguration he is talking to Moses and Elijah who have been dead for a very long time. Jesus isn't against contacting those who have past on to heaven, He did it himself. What God is against as mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:10–11 is manipulation or conjuration of dead people. Saints are more alive than we are, if they were sleeping or un-conscious Jesus would not have been able to talk to Moses and Elijah. Granted they were in "Abraham's Bossom" at the time, still remains that they were awake and conscious, and carrying on a fascinating conversation I would imagine. You have Moses, the old Exodus, and Jesus the new Exodus.

 

Who are the 24 elders?

 

You are groping in darkness. The bible is not very clear here. So to build a doctrine upon this these passages is going to lead to one big heretical mess. 

 

By the way, these saints are future saints that are killed during the tribulation by the beast. They are NOT part of the church seeing the church will be raptured off this planet by this time. These are saints that have come through great tribulation who have lost their lives and whose souls are kept under the altar until the Second Coming of Christ. NT Christians are not shut up under some altar. We are already united with Christ and seated in heavenly places in him (Eph. 2:6). And when we die we go automatically into his presence (II. Cor. 5:8).

 

Also, nowhere does it say that the angel received the prayers other than by offering them up to the Lord. The Lord is the one who received the prayers.

 

If you want to pray to some nameless angel go right ahead. Just hope he's the right one. I'll bypass it all and go right to the Lord himself since I have full access to the throne of grace (Heb. 4:16).

 

This is just another reason why the doctrine of the rapture and right divisions is important.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Adamski should read, A History of Christianity by Diarmaid MacCulloch. The book provides the historical explanation about how the Catholic Church decided that clergy needed to be unmarried and the reasons for the cult and followers of Virgin Mary. 

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