Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

brosmith

Jack Schaap Headed For Prison

Recommended Posts

In many states (if not all) there is also position of authority, which he was. So even if she was at age of consent and he didn't take across state lines, he would most likely have to deal with position of athority charges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around this, particularly after reading an article in today's Chicago Tribune. Mr. Schaap admitted having sex with the 16 y/o and knew it was wrong.....but also said "he didn't know what the law was." I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with it? A 54 y/o married pastor having sex with a teen and he knew it was wrong. Forget the legal implications, he knew it was wrong, Biblically and morally.

Doesn't matter if he's a pastor, policeman, whomever, it is still sin and it is still wrong.


True, & it seems at least one poster under this topic is trying to place blame, or at lest partial blame, at the door of the 16 year-old. I hope they did not mean it that way, yet it seemed they did.

Amazing to in almost ever case there's always some that are so close to the guilty one, so close that they can never see the evidence that proves guilt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In many states (if not all) there is also position of authority, which he was. So even if she was at age of consent and he didn't take across state lines, he would most likely have to deal with position of athority charges.

Actually, not in Indiana, sadly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe he has been put in prison yet. I believe they're still putting everything together.

In another Baptist forum they have a topic entitled "Jack Schaap should not go to jail." Its 6 page long. Its quite amazing. I want give the ULR, yet if you would like to read though it, just do a search for "Jack Schaap should not go to jail," it likely will be the 1st one result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am familiar with Schaap-visited the church before, and know people who have come out of Hyles-Anderson college. I believe there was a lot of pastor-worship going on there, with their 'Hyles-cost', and the buttons people wore saying, "100% Hyles". There was a desire to be the biggest and best, and great pride over having the 'world's largest Sunday school". According to those who were cast-offs from the church, who could take it no longer, have told of how Hyles would go into the ladies' classrooms and have the ladies sing somgs about how much they loved him. Hyles was a powerful man who had a tight hold on that church. When he died, Schaap, his son-in-law, took over as pastor, but could not keep the hold as his predecessor could, and he fell due to his sins. If you read some of his sermons, you will find that he apparently had quite the obsession with sexual subjects, and sexualized much of the Bible. I pray that what Schaap will be going through with this will bring him to true repentance to the Lord and that he might be restored in some way that the Lord can use him. Personally, I see him as an unfortunate victim of Hyles, in that he was never made to be held accountable for what he did, and Schaap just assumed he could carry on that legacy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am familiar with Schaap-visited the church before, and know people who have come out of Hyles-Anderson college. I believe there was a lot of pastor-worship going on there, with their 'Hyles-cost', and the buttons people wore saying, "100% Hyles". There was a desire to be the biggest and best, and great pride over having the 'world's largest Sunday school". According to those who were cast-offs from the church, who could take it no longer, have told of how Hyles would go into the ladies' classrooms and have the ladies sing somgs about how much they loved him. Hyles was a powerful man who had a tight hold on that church. When he died, Schaap, his son-in-law, took over as pastor, but could not keep the hold as his predecessor could, and he fell due to his sins. If you read some of his sermons, you will find that he apparently had quite the obsession with sexual subjects, and sexualized much of the Bible. I pray that what Schaap will be going through with this will bring him to true repentance to the Lord and that he might be restored in some way that the Lord can use him. Personally, I see him as an unfortunate victim of Hyles, in that he was never made to be held accountable for what he did, and Schaap just assumed he could carry on that legacy.


Seems authority will corrupt most men, it seems to give them much pride, & soon they will feel everyone must answer to them & no one can show them their mistakes & errors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"It sure seems like a certain level of accountability can be lost in such a large church, or any church where the pastor demands full unquestioned obedience to the man."


I am wondering where this highlighted thought above, is leading. What church in this discussion is "where the pastor demands full unquestioned obedience to the man?"

Just curious. Maybe you should start another string. Because if you are not going to accuse yet another group of God's people, we'll all think that you are accusing such of Bro Schaap or Bro Hyles.

I have been a member of all three; small medium and mega churches. I have always enjoyed the small church more. Not sure why. But there are also some benefits to attending and being involved in a mega church that is doing right. We had really fun and interesting Big Days during Fall and Spring promotions. Bigger churches can often do more and bigger things that are not available to smaller churches. It was also fun to be so close for Pastor's School and not having to drive and stay in a hotel for that big event. At FBC Hammond many times we got to see dozens of people baptised who had just gotten saved. What an exciting blessing that is to meet ones new Heavenly neighbors in such large numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am familiar with Schaap-visited the church before, and know people who have come out of Hyles-Anderson college. I believe there was a lot of pastor-worship going on there, with their 'Hyles-cost', and the buttons people wore saying, "100% Hyles". There was a desire to be the biggest and best, and great pride over having the 'world's largest Sunday school". According to those who were cast-offs from the church, who could take it no longer, have told of how Hyles would go into the ladies' classrooms and have the ladies sing somgs about how much they loved him. Hyles was a powerful man who had a tight hold on that church. When he died, Schaap, his son-in-law, took over as pastor, but could not keep the hold as his predecessor could, and he fell due to his sins. If you read some of his sermons, you will find that he apparently had quite the obsession with sexual subjects, and sexualized much of the Bible. I pray that what Schaap will be going through with this will bring him to true repentance to the Lord and that he might be restored in some way that the Lord can use him. Personally, I see him as an unfortunate victim of Hyles, in that he was never made to be held accountable for what he did, and Schaap just assumed he could carry on that legacy.


Mike, why pick on Hyles, no one has proven the accusations against him. Perhaps your "friends" are out to undermine First Baptist because they got into trouble and were expelled. It happens, you know. There is an entire web sit dedicated to ruining Dr. Hyles. I never did care much for Schaap, but to blame his problem on hyles is heresay, and would not hold up in court! There is no real reason for expressing your opinion on that matter except to bring Dr. Hyles down, that hints of maliciousness on your part. You could have easily made your point without implicating him. You have,nevertheless, joined a group that seems bent on destroying the church, the people, and the good name they built. Welcome to the club.

As for "pastor worship" let me ask, do you love your pastor? if so, how do you express it? I doubt that you send him love notes, so the only way you can do it openly and sincerely is to encourage him as "the best pastor in the world". I am sure that daddy's like to hear that from their children, is that a form of worship? I know a lot of people from there too, and they say nothing but good; I guess its a matter of who you are talking to. I have been there many times,as all three of my children (two of which are girls) have graduated from there, and our faithfully serving the Lord , one "full time", and the other all the time! You should get the facts straight before you speak, and consider that disgruntled church members most always carry grudges. I wonder if any of those people would expose their dirty laundry for all to see? Rumors are hard to live down, I hope none of us fall prey to them. Edited by irishman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe he has been put in prison yet. I believe they're still putting everything together.

In another Baptist forum they have a topic entitled "Jack Schaap should not go to jail." Its 6 page long. Its quite amazing. I want give the ULR, yet if you would like to read though it, just do a search for "Jack Schaap should not go to jail," it likely will be the 1st one result.


Thanks. Actually, all I wanted to know is if he is in prison, then I could write and encourage him. Since he is repentant (I think), he has a great opportunity to witness to other people by telling them about God's forgiveness.

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. ... Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee."
~Psalm 51:10-13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike, why pick on Hyles, no one has proven the accusations against him. Perhaps your "friends" are out to undermine First Baptist because they got into trouble and were expelled. It happens, you know. There is an entire web sit dedicated to ruining Dr. Hyles. I never did care much for Schaap, but to blame his problem on hyles is heresay, and would not hold up in court! There is no real reason for expressing your opinion on that matter except to bring Dr. Hyles down, that hints of maliciousness on your part. You could have easily made your point without implicating him. You have,nevertheless, joined a group that seems bent on destroying the church, the people, and the good name they built. Welcome to the club.

As for "pastor worship" let me ask, do you love your pastor? if so, how do you express it? I doubt that you send him love notes, so the only way you can do it openly and sincerely is to encourage him as "the best pastor in the world". I am sure that daddy's like to hear that from their children, is that a form of worship? I know a lot of people from there too, and they say nothing but good; I guess its a matter of who you are talking to. I have been there many times,as all three of my children (two of which are girls) have graduated from there, and our faithfully serving the Lord , one "full time", and the other all the time! You should get the facts straight before you speak, and consider that disgruntled church members most always carry grudges. I wonder if any of those people would expose their dirty laundry for all to see? Rumors are hard to live down, I hope none of us fall prey to them.


The people who spoke of these issues are not 'friends', but many who have left FBC, including Hyles own daughter, who spoke in length concerning the double life lead by her father. There was plenty of proof against him, but when you have deacons and leaders who refuse to hear anything against their pastor, which in itself is unscriptural, then everything becomes 'hearsay', since no proof can be heard. The Bible tells us that a matter is to be heard in the mouths of two or threw witnesses; there were more than that, but they were never heard, nor allowed.

As for how I love my pastor, of course I loved him, (he died two months ago), but I also disagreed in some areas with him, and spoke with him about these things, and we remained friends. I never thought he was perfect, nor was I ever afraid to speak to him about concerns I may have had. I am a pastor now, and as a pastor, I would never allow my people to wear a button that said, "100% Reed!" Nor would I desire to claim to myself more saved than on Pentecost, and name it 'Reedcost". Nor would I approve of a statue to be built of me after I die. IN fact, I don't even encourage the people in my church to call me 'Pastor', though I AM a pastor, because its my job, not my title. No one refers to a shepherd as 'Hey, Shepherd!". Pastor is my job description, not my title. But Hyles taught in his sermons that one was to never speak against a pastor, nor question what he taught. He even said that if you KNEW he was teaching error, to obey him without question, and God would bless you for it. That's just foolishness. One of his sermons I heard him preach was called, "Publish it Not", and he taught to never speak publicly if a pastor falls into sin. Now, I understand that we should not shoot our own wounded, but seek to see them restored in repentance-but that wasn't all it was about: it was about not even warning is a pastor has done wrong and is still in the pulpit, and that's not right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. Actually, all I wanted to know is if he is in prison, then I could write and encourage him. Since he is repentant (I think), he has a great opportunity to witness to other people by telling them about God's forgiveness.

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. ... Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee."
~Psalm 51:10-13

Amen! If we can give encouragement to a fallen brother which helps restore his walk with the Lord we should do so. Past transgressions have been hashed and rehashed more than enough here and elsewhere. It's time to consider the present and future. Do we continue to drown the man in his past sins or do we attempt to restore Him in Christ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The people who spoke of these issues are not 'friends', but many who have left FBC, including Hyles own daughter, who spoke in length concerning the double life lead by her father. There was plenty of proof against him, but when you have deacons and leaders who refuse to hear anything against their pastor, which in itself is unscriptural, then everything becomes 'hearsay', since no proof can be heard. The Bible tells us that a matter is to be heard in the mouths of two or threw witnesses; there were more than that, but they were never heard, nor allowed.

As for how I love my pastor, of course I loved him, (he died two months ago), but I also disagreed in some areas with him, and spoke with him about these things, and we remained friends. I never thought he was perfect, nor was I ever afraid to speak to him about concerns I may have had. I am a pastor now, and as a pastor, I would never allow my people to wear a button that said, "100% Reed!" Nor would I desire to claim to myself more saved than on Pentecost, and name it 'Reedcost". Nor would I approve of a statue to be built of me after I die. IN fact, I don't even encourage the people in my church to call me 'Pastor', though I AM a pastor, because its my job, not my title. No one refers to a shepherd as 'Hey, Shepherd!". Pastor is my job description, not my title. But Hyles taught in his sermons that one was to never speak against a pastor, nor question what he taught. He even said that if you KNEW he was teaching error, to obey him without question, and God would bless you for it. That's just foolishness. One of his sermons I heard him preach was called, "Publish it Not", and he taught to never speak publicly if a pastor falls into sin. Now, I understand that we should not shoot our own wounded, but seek to see them restored in repentance-but that wasn't all it was about: it was about not even warning is a pastor has done wrong and is still in the pulpit, and that's not right.


Pastor Mike
Thanks for clarifying that you are a pastor (I prefer the term as both the "job" and the title) I have read, and heard many of Dr. Hyles' sermons, and yes, some of those things he did say, but many have taken them out of context.
Example: Dr. Hyles would not preach with certain preachers in special meetings. One well knlwn church and pastor took offense when Dr. Hyles would not come and speak at his church because "so-and-so was one of the speakers. This particular gentleman had verbally castigated Dr. Hyles, and sought to destroy his testimony. A short while later, it came out that Dr. Hyles was telling the preacher who he could have preach, and who he could not. As you can tell, it was taken to extreme and altered to fit the agenda of the preacher that did come there and made it hard for Dr. Hyles. I know first-hand that this happened, and I know other things have been distorted just as the press often does. Partial qoutes, misunderstood statements, etc. have followed him all through his ministry, but he stood and triumphed in the end in spite of the gainsayers.

As for his daughter, she was rebellious at a young age and did not like the "rules" at home. of course she is going to manufacture fabrications, and exaggerate truth. Cindy Hyles (Schaap) wrote a book about her father called "the fundamental man" and had a perfect chance to castigate him in the same manner, but did nothing but praise him. Why two different views from two different daughters? You figure it out.

It's lonely at the top, and most of his friends, John R Rice, Curtis Hutson, Lester Roloff and Bob Jones SR> were dead and gone, and even a preacher needs encouragement. As for the buttons, they used to use them in politics too ("I like Ike), and no one accused them of worshiping Eisenhower. That is such a trivial thing that it looks as if people are shooting in the dark, trying to find fault with him. It is ridicules.

Most Hyles haters, already have their minds tainted and will not admit that they may have been manipulated by others who sought to destroy a great ministry, and a great man that was mightily used of God. None of like to admit that we were deceived, do we?

How do your people express their love for you? Do they seem to appreciate the sacrifices you make, and the work hours that you put in? I hope they make it obvious that you (in their minds) are the greatest pastor in the world. I know you would like to hear that, whether true or not. Be aware that the right kinds of rumors could destroy your ministry very easily in the IFB movement, we seem to like a good scandal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am wondering where this highlighted thought above, is leading. What church in this discussion is "where the pastor demands full unquestioned obedience to the man?"

Just curious. Maybe you should start another string. Because if you are not going to accuse yet another group of God's people, we'll all think that you are accusing such of Bro Schaap or Bro Hyles.

I have been a member of all three; small medium and mega churches. I have always enjoyed the small church more. Not sure why. But there are also some benefits to attending and being involved in a mega church that is doing right. We had really fun and interesting Big Days during Fall and Spring promotions. Bigger churches can often do more and bigger things that are not available to smaller churches. It was also fun to be so close for Pastor's School and not having to drive and stay in a hotel for that big event. At FBC Hammond many times we got to see dozens of people baptised who had just gotten saved. What an exciting blessing that is to meet ones new Heavenly neighbors in such large numbers.


Sorry, but its not leading no where, try not to read anything into it. When you do, you just might be wrong.

Fact: Any pastor that demands full unquestioned obedience has a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The people who spoke of these issues are not 'friends', but many who have left FBC, including Hyles own daughter, who spoke in length concerning the double life lead by her father. There was plenty of proof against him, but when you have deacons and leaders who refuse to hear anything against their pastor, which in itself is unscriptural, then everything becomes 'hearsay', since no proof can be heard. The Bible tells us that a matter is to be heard in the mouths of two or threw witnesses; there were more than that, but they were never heard, nor allowed.

As for how I love my pastor, of course I loved him, (he died two months ago), but I also disagreed in some areas with him, and spoke with him about these things, and we remained friends. I never thought he was perfect, nor was I ever afraid to speak to him about concerns I may have had. I am a pastor now, and as a pastor, I would never allow my people to wear a button that said, "100% Reed!" Nor would I desire to claim to myself more saved than on Pentecost, and name it 'Reedcost". Nor would I approve of a statue to be built of me after I die. IN fact, I don't even encourage the people in my church to call me 'Pastor', though I AM a pastor, because its my job, not my title. No one refers to a shepherd as 'Hey, Shepherd!". Pastor is my job description, not my title. But Hyles taught in his sermons that one was to never speak against a pastor, nor question what he taught. He even said that if you KNEW he was teaching error, to obey him without question, and God would bless you for it. That's just foolishness. One of his sermons I heard him preach was called, "Publish it Not", and he taught to never speak publicly if a pastor falls into sin. Now, I understand that we should not shoot our own wounded, but seek to see them restored in repentance-but that wasn't all it was about: it was about not even warning is a pastor has done wrong and is still in the pulpit, and that's not right.


Yes, no doubt he had a problem, we are to follow Jesus unquestionably, not man, & that is what I mean in my previous post.

So sad, some church members speaks loud & clear to the public about church affairs, & this should not be so. I feel it would be OK for the member to talk quietly to one another about such things, but not to those outside of their church.

In years gone by a church that I had previously been a member of the members spoke openly, they wanted to get rid of their pastor. It seems everyone knew this but this pastor & his wife. I rightly did not know the man, perhaps if i had I would have gone & spoken to him. But being as I only knew him by sight, I didn't, knowing he had no idea who I was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, no doubt he had a problem, we are to follow Jesus unquestionably, not man, & that is what I mean in my previous post.

So sad, some church members speaks loud & clear to the public about church affairs, & this should not be so. I feel it would be OK for the member to talk quietly to one another about such things, but not to those outside of their church.

In years gone by a church that I had previously been a member of the members spoke openly, they wanted to get rid of their pastor. It seems everyone knew this but this pastor & his wife. I rightly did not know the man, perhaps if i had I would have gone & spoken to him. But being as I only knew him by sight, I didn't, knowing he had no idea who I was.


In many ways I agree with this view, but when someone has as far-reaching a ministry as Hyles did, warnings need to be given to those who might be influenced by him, even outside his church. We are happy to publicly point out errors of such men as Rick Warren or Joel Osteen, but we refuse to warn about those inside the IFB, because we think we're shooting our wounded. The wounded we care for are those who are repentant and being restored; those who continue in sin and wrong, and are unrepentant, we MUST warn about, especialy those with far-reaching ministries. Not out of hatred or dissention, but for the protection of the people of God who may be influenced by them.

The issue with Hyles, is that there is so much out there, it NEEDS to be looked at by all who truly love the Lord and His work, first. If Hyles is innocent, then carefeul examination will vindicate him, but if he is guilty, then it needs to be seen. The problem if that many flat out refuse to even consider it, which is right along the lines of Hyles' trachings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear people say that he demands strict obedience whether right or wrong, but out of 100's of sermons I have listened to, and several times I heard him personally, and even privately at question and answer times (for preachers ) I have NEVER heard him say anything like that. He does some things that people don't like, like when someone gets up and leaves during his preaching, he tells them not to come back in. It disturbs those that might need what he has to say. He simply believed that preaching is important.

Jerry said, "Yes, no doubt he had a problem, we are to follow Jesus unquestionably, not man, & that is what I mean in my previous post"

I don't think you understand. These things are going around and distorted from what was really said, many times. At any rate, you said this isn't getting anywhere, and you are right, so why does it keep cropping up? At least five different people have "warned us" and yet it goes on.

I would take your part too if this ever happened to you..

Oh, I just remembered, he has said that we should always stand on the side of authority, because chances are they are right more often than we are! That was for disputes in the Christian school with teachers and parents about unruly kids and discipline.

Edited by irishman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amen! If we can give encouragement to a fallen brother which helps restore his walk with the Lord we should do so. Past transgressions have been hashed and rehashed more than enough here and elsewhere. It's time to consider the present and future. Do we continue to drown the man in his past sins or do we attempt to restore Him in Christ?


Yes! Philippians 3:13-14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Restoring him does not mean putting him back into the position of pastor, he know longer fulfills the biblical qualifications for a pastor of a New Testament Church.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

So sad, many times we will do things so that the consequences are we can not serve God as we once did, yet there's still plenty of ways we can serve Jesus in one of His churches. Sad thing is many times a Christian that does something that disgraces them self will not come back to church unless they are fully restore to their previous position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of us that are followers of Christ are human, succeptible to sin.  We make daily choices, turn right, turn left, stop here for a cup of coffee, sleep in on Sunday morning or get up and get ready and go, councel this 16 year old girl and help her, councel this 16 year old girl and fornicate with her at the age of 16 and 17 and call it an unfortunate affair.  The most recent filing says he was overworked, tired, depressed and had an enlarged prostrate that is why he had an "affair" with this girl.  My question to everyone is, does this show true repentance?  Remember Jimmy Swaggart?  He wept on tv and said I have sinned, my sins were not as bad as David's, but I have sinned...then he went on months later to do it again.  When we sin folks, and repent, we feel like no one's sins are as bad as ours, we are humbled and made keenly aware of our humanity and we make NO excuses.

 

No one is negating the good that may have been done through this man's life.  No one.  But no one should negate the choices, on multiple days, this man made at the age of 54 to use a 16 then 17 year old girl.  He KNEW better, but chose.  Is this condemnation?  NO.  Just truth.  We need to pray for Jack Schaap, for true repentance; for his wife who loves him so and is blinded by that love.  We need to thank God for First Baptist Church who fired this man, turned it over to athorities and whose most recent statement said, there is no excuse for what he did.  We need to open our eyes to sin is sin and to the man who said 10 years is harsh for a man having sex with a 17 year old (she was 16 when it started); who by the way was her high school superintendant, her Pastor and her councelor in the Lord.  My question is, sir, if this were your 16 year old daughter, would 10 years be a HEAVY sentence for the man who took such advantage over her and could have inpregnated her and who has changed her view of men in places of authority for the rest of her life.

 

Let Us Pray!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just throw another log in the fire....then pray!  Is that it?

 

We sure have a lot of crusaders who take pleasure in "warning" the brethren; I wonder what the Lord would do after someone has been rebuked so much?

 

I in no way agree with Bro. Schaap, but  do not care for mob type lynchings either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 172 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...