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P_Bear141

Pray For America And Israel?

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I read that there will be two literal witnesses who will prophesy - (not necessarily telling of the future, but in telling forth the words of God - for 1260 literal days.

The context tells us quite clearly that they are like olive trees and they are like candlesticks.
When imagery is used in the Bible it is quite plain. Thanks for pointing out fact that imagery is obvious when it is used.
Which is what I have been saying, and Rev 1:1's use of the word signify is not an obvious indicator of symbology, as the passage you reference here is.
Go looking for the olive trees elsewhere to figure out how these men are like olive trees or candlesticks.

It really is not hard when the Bible makes it so plain.



Yes but look back to Rev 1: 20 to see the symbolisation of candlesticks

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I agree. They are real events that have taken place or will take place but figured in the way the are presented. I know a pastor who follows Hendriksen and believes they are real events but only in broad outline, if I understand the teaching correctly Ian will no doubt correct me if I am wrong because I believe he knows more about that teaching than I do.

I did preach through Revelation taking Hendriksen (More than Conquerors) as my guide, I linked the Rev. prophecies with related OT prophecies, BUT because he accepted a late date for John's visions, & therefore dismissed Preterism, I did not consider the ad 70 fulfilment. That left me with many questions & unsatisfactory answers until I saw the Preterist position.

It is easy to see Roman persecution in Revelation, both by the empire & then the RC church. Careful study is needed to see how the visions relate to the destruction, the persecuted church & the second come of Christ for resurrection & judgment.

The two witnesses - witnesses against Jerusalem are Moses (plagues) & Elijah (fire from heaven.) These represent the Word of God - Law & Prophets.

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The redeemed saints will rejoice in heaven when the false church is destroyed because the harlot church will have been responsible for killing millions of believers in the first half of the tribulation period.

Revelation 17:12–18 KJV
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

John explains his vision, which is very interesting, in that verse seventeen says that God will cause the ten kings who will be ruled by the apostate church from Rome to rebel and give their power to the Antichrist.
Think back to 2 Thessalonians 2. Remember that God will cause all the people who hear the truth of the Gospel of Jesus, but reject that truth, to believe the lie of the Antichrist after the rapture of believers. Therefore, God will cause the people of the Christian nations who remain after the rapture to believe the Antichrist and follow him. In Revelation 17:17, God gives the Antichrist control of the whole world by causing the ten kings who will conquer the world to give their power to the Antichrist.

The redeemed saints will rejoice in heaven when the false church is destroyed because the harlot church will have been responsible for killing millions of believers in the first half of the tribulation period.

Revelation 18:20–24 KJV
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets;
for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of
all that were slain upon the earth.

In the last half of the tribulation, it will be the antichrist and the revived Roman Empire which will persecute the saints and Israel.

Edited by Eric Stahl

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Eric - if you want people to be able to read your posts, then, before posting block the whole argument (ctrl/A) click font (choose Arial) then click size (14)

e.g.


The redeemed saints will rejoice in heaven when the false church is destroyed because the harlot church will have been responsible for killing millions of believers in the first half of the tribulation period.

The redeemed saints will rejoice in heaven when the false church is destroyed because the harlot church will have been responsible for killing millions of believers in the first half of the tribulation period.
Edited by Covenanter

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Eric - if you want people to be able to read your posts, then, before posting block the whole argument (ctrl/A) click font (choose Arial) then click size (14)

e.g.


Thank you Covenater! I didn't know I could do that.

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Our preacher today took Rev 7 for his sermon.

He mentioned a bible class teacher who had been teaching Revelation and at the end asked his class if anyone could give a summary of revelation. One lad put up his hand and said "Jesus wins." I think we should all be able to agree on that.

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I did preach through Revelation taking Hendriksen (More than Conquerors) as my guide, I linked the Rev. prophecies with related OT prophecies, BUT because he accepted a late date for John's visions, & therefore dismissed Preterism, I did not consider the ad 70 fulfilment. That left me with many questions & unsatisfactory answers until I saw the Preterist position.

It is easy to see Roman persecution in Revelation, both by the empire & then the RC church. Careful study is needed to see how the visions relate to the destruction, the persecuted church & the second come of Christ for resurrection & judgment.

The two witnesses - witnesses against Jerusalem are Moses (plagues) & Elijah (fire from heaven.) These represent the Word of God - Law & Prophets.


Clothed in sack cloth?

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Clothed in sack cloth?

And he said u
nt
o him, If they hear n
ot
Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Is it an extraordinary concept of the rejected Word being figuratively clothed in sackcloth? Jesus speaks of Moses as a witness - surely in that situation, he would clothe himself in sackcloth? Likewise Elijah.
Do n
ot
think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wr
ot
e of me.


Did n
ot
Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?


Remember ye the law of Moses my serva
nt
, which I commanded u
nt
o him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgme
nt
s.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

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Yes but look back to Rev 1: 20 to see the symbolisation of candlesticks
Yes, do look at Revelation 1:20 and see the symbolism of the candlesticks, it says there are 7 of them, and in the verse you are debating there's only 2, therefore not every reference in the Bible that uses the word "candlestick" is the same prophecy. And Rev 1:20 clarifies who the 7 candlesticks are, they are seven churches, so does that mean that the candlesticks referred to later in Revelation are 2 churches instead of Moses and Elijah because a previous reference to candlesticks are churches?

And then Covanenter says "The two witnesses - witnesses against Jerusalem are Moses (plagues) & Elijah (fire from heaven.) These represent the Word of God - Law & Prophets.
These are 2 literal people, not just a symbol of the law and the prophets. For one, when the plagues occured in Egypt, they occurred before the law was given so you can't use Moses as tying the plagues to the law.
Secondly, the obvious reading of all of the events listed in Revelation chapter 11 are of 2 literal persons, especially in verse 9 "9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. You don't see a symbolized dead body and then agree not to allow a symbol to be buried in a grave.

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Can modern day Israel be considered as Sodom and Egypt since the creation of modern day Israel is by Rothschild and his hexagram flag is used?

If you read the Bible where the perimeters are for the land of Israel you wouldn't attribute the land of Israel to Rothschild Genesis 15:8, Numbers 34:1-18, Deut 11:24, Ezekial 47: 15-20. As I've stated to this statement in another post, Rothschild only assisted in the flags logo, the boundaries of Israel existed long before any of the Rothschilds were a pimple on the pope's big toe.

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Yes, do look at Revelation 1:20 and see the symbolism of the candlesticks, it says there are 7 of them, and in the verse you are debating there's only 2, therefore not every reference in the Bible that uses the word "candlestick" is the same prophecy. And Rev 1:20 clarifies who the 7 candlesticks are, they are seven churches, so does that mean that the candlesticks referred to later in Revelation are 2 churches instead of Moses and Elijah because a previous reference to candlesticks are churches?

And then Covanenter says "The two witnesses - witnesses against Jerusalem are Moses (plagues) & Elijah (fire from heaven.) These represent the Word of God - Law & Prophets.
These are 2 literal people, not just a symbol of the law and the prophets. For one, when the plagues occured in Egypt, they occurred before the law was given so you can't use Moses as tying the plagues to the law.
Secondly, the obvious reading of all of the events listed in Revelation chapter 11 are of 2 literal persons, especially in verse 9 "9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. You don't see a symbolized dead body and then agree not to allow a symbol to be buried in a grave.


The seven churches are 7 candlesticks representing the entire church. The two witnesses are are Christ's witnesses, i.e. Christians. But Christian churches, not individuals. They were the churches in the darkest days of the Roman apostacy. Two or three being the minimum number of witnesses under the law. In Daniel 3, we have three of Christ's witnesses condemned to the Flames. Do you think they were the only ones who refused to conform to the king's command? I don't. We would, I hope believe that Daniel didn't and probably many others also.No, they were representative, just as the two witnesses were representing the church in its depleted state. Just enough to bear witness through the darkest days of the papal Antichrist. Sackcloth is a sign of mourning and Christ's witnesses were always in mourning for loved ones and fellow saints confined to the flames.

I have before me a picture of the Waldensian emblem, a candlestick surrounded by seven stars, suggesting they were associated with the seven churches, no doubt. Around this are the words. LVX LVCET IN TENEBRIS, "The Light Shineth In Darkness." This is exactly what the two witness candlesticks were, Light shining in the darkness during what we know as the dark ages.

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But the obvious reading, which fits with cross link in Zechariah as well, is that these two are two individual men. And the seven churches also are read most obviously as seven individual churches in actual cities.

You explanation is convoluted, and not based upon the plain reading of the verses but a predetermined position of a doctrine.

If you read these two passages plainly it makes good sense to see them literally.

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But the obvious reading, which fits with cross link in Zechariah as well, is that these two are two individual men. And the seven churches also are read most obviously as seven individual churches in actual cities.

You explanation is convoluted, and not based upon the plain reading of the verses but a predetermined position of a doctrine.

If you read these two passages plainly it makes good sense to see them literally.


Only on a superficial reading.

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You mean only on an obvious reading?
Only when reading what us actually written in the pages?
Only when looking to other passages which explain the parts that are obviously symbols, which give clarity to the parts which are obviously literal?

Yep, two literal men, literally preaching the Gospel, who are literally wearing sackcloth, and who are literally killed, and who literally lie dead in the street, and literally come to life again.
That's the way I read it.
Strangely, that's also what is actually says.

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If you read the Bible where the perimeters are for the land of Israel you wouldn't attribute the land of Israel to Rothschild Genesis 15:8, Numbers 34:1-18, Deut 11:24, Ezekial 47: 15-20. As I've stated to this statement in another post, Rothschild only assisted in the flags logo, the boundaries of Israel existed long before any of the Rothschilds were a pimple on the pope's big toe.


It is about people; not the land...... The Ashkenazi Jew is not a blood-line Jew. Rothschild went in and colonized it in 1897.... not the Jews. Jacob purchased the land for a permanent ownership from the Arabs and they agreed to never lay claim to it. But the point is; they are not Jews. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified
Rev 11:8 (KJV) What did Eze 8 have to say about their departure and more to the point what did Jesus have to say about them --- it is unthinkable to say Jesus was wrong. The hexagram's numerical value is 666. Just a fluke?

On the Candlesticks: do not two of the original still exist today? At Macedonia you see the Thessaloniki church stil there. There were ~300 Jewish families there but they converted to Islam a long time ago.

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It is about people; not the land...... The Ashkenazi Jew is not a blood-line Jew. Rothschild went in and colonized it in 1897.... not the Jews. Jacob purchased the land for a permanent ownership from the Arabs and they agreed to never lay claim to it. But the point is; they are not Jews. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified
Rev 11:8 (KJV) What did Eze 8 have to say about their departure and more to the point what did Jesus have to say about them --- it is unthinkable to say Jesus was wrong. The hexagram's numerical value is 666. Just a fluke?

On the Candlesticks: do not two of the original still exist today? At Macedonia you see the Thessaloniki church stil there. There were ~300 Jewish families there but they converted to Islam a long time ago.

Oh I am not disagreeing with you about the occultic nature of the star of David on the flag. There are bloodline Jews in Israel, in fact twelve or more tribes of them, and they will be present during the tribulation (Revelation 7:5-8). All through the centuries, the Jews have been persecuted, but never wiped out; they were getting what they asked for when they said in Matthew 27 "let his blood be on us and our children", yet they have still been preserved as a people because of God's promise to Abraham. In Isaiah chs 11-12 and 27, Hosea ch 1, Zech ch's 12-14, and numerous other places show that God will regather Israel from all nations where they were scattered and that all Israel will be saved after the tribulation wipes out all the unbelieving Jews. Even through all of Israel's miraculous history, their leaders have never given God the glory, and Benjamin Netanyahu just one among many praises the PEOPLE for their victories and not God. Much of today's occult practices including that of the Illuminati and Masonry have much of the Jewish Kabbalism in it and the 6 point star is the highest symbol for occult practitioners.
So no, I have no problem with your assertion that the flag is occultic, but the nation as a whole has a future that God promised to them after the trouble they are going to experience which He also promised them.
On the Ashkenazi Jews, you need to quit reading all that Texx Marrs and Aryan Brotherhood literature LOL. The Jews were scattered in AD 70 and continued to get scattered all throughout history so it makes sense that a large part of the current population are going to come from other geographies. There are some that are real Jews which is clear from Revelation 7, and those that are not, whether physically or spiritually due to unbelief . Rev 2:2,9 Rev 3:9
And it is about the people AND the land. God told Moses to take off his sandles because the place he was standing was holy ground (Ex 3:5), and this is the first mention in the Bible of the word holy. The first mention of holy is in reference to a piece of ground. If the land wasn't important, there wouldn't be so many references defining the boundaries. Granted, no doubt God is a people person, but everything God says is important so don't discount the land either.
And no, the 666 isn't just a fluke. I personally believe the false prophet of Revelation is going to be a Jew, possibly from the tribe of Dan (a subject that would take up another thread). Edited by DrJamesA

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The seven churches are 7 candlesticks representing the entire church. The two witnesses are are Christ's witnesses, i.e. Christians. But Christian churches, not individuals. They were the churches in the darkest days of the Roman apostacy. Two or three being the minimum number of witnesses under the law. In Daniel 3, we have three of Christ's witnesses condemned to the Flames. Do you think they were the only ones who refused to conform to the king's command? I don't. We would, I hope believe that Daniel didn't and probably many others also.No, they were representative, just as the two witnesses were representing the church in its depleted state. Just enough to bear witness through the darkest days of the papal Antichrist. Sackcloth is a sign of mourning and Christ's witnesses were always in mourning for loved ones and fellow saints confined to the flames.

I have before me a picture of the Waldensian emblem, a candlestick surrounded by seven stars, suggesting they were associated with the seven churches, no doubt. Around this are the words. LVX LVCET IN TENEBRIS, "The Light Shineth In Darkness." This is exactly what the two witness candlesticks were, Light shining in the darkness during what we know as the dark ages.

That is a whole lot of eisegitical and allegorized interpretation. First of all, there are 3 purposes for the 7 churches. Three different times, John was told to write what he saw and heard. The first, is the churches are 7 literal churches, and Polycarp is even the pastor of one of them (Smyrna). The second is they represent stages of church history, Thyatira being the one that represented the worst of the rise and bloodshed of the Roman Catholic church. And lastly, they are 7 Jewish TRIBULATION churches. All through chapters 2 and 3 are repeated reference to Jewish relics and Jewish stories (balaam and Balak 2:13-14, Jezebel 2:20) references to the synagogues (2:9) the Christian Jews trying those who say they are Jews and are not (2:2, 3:9) which is something no Gentile would be concerned about, and the focus is back on the Jew during the tribulation because there are no Gentile Christians around after the rapture.
But further evidence is that in Revelation 2:10, it states that the DEVIL will cast some of them into prison. This shows Satan's personal involvement in the persecution of believers during the tribulation and he is also responsible for leading the attacks on the world during the tribulation (Rev 9:1-4, and v. 11). The devil's personal involvement has not occured on a scale such as described in Revelation anytime throughout history which shows that all of the prophecies of Revelation from chapter 1 through 22 are yet future.
I have a picture before me of a painting done by Peter Ruckman of a King James Bible pointing to the rapture of the church. So since pictures prove the validity of doctrine and history according to your logic of the Waldensian photo, then my picture of the rapture proves that preterism is a farse. Edited by DrJamesA

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Good post James. Do you subscribe to a 7 yr Great Trib and if so where do you find it in scripture? It is my hope and I think all ours here that the Jews will come to know Christ Jesus. Also all the semitic peoples which include four language groups of which one is the Arabs. I should hope we all want all that can be saved regardless of nationality. If Iran were to be saved, then how much better would we all be ;-D.

However; I see Dan 9:24 as 70 weeks are determined and sealed. The Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera in 1590 removed the 70th week and created the futurism doctrine. If there is a 7 yr trib, I'd like to know. And on another note; what do you think of Cory Ten Boom's 1974 letter?

Thank you in advance. I an not try to argue or say you're wrong, only would like to see your scriptural evidence. I think REV clearly shows the last 2000 yrs since Christ Jesus and tribulation.

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Good post James. Do you subscribe to a 7 yr Great Trib and if so where do you find it in scripture? It is my hope and I think all ours here that the Jews will come to know Christ Jesus. Also all the semitic peoples which include four language groups of which one is the Arabs. I should hope we all want all that can be saved regardless of nationality. If Iran were to be saved, then how much better would we all be ;-D.

However; I see Dan 9:24 as 70 weeks are determined and sealed. The Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera in 1590 removed the 70th week and created the futurism doctrine. If there is a 7 yr trib, I'd like to know. And on another note; what do you think of Cory Ten Boom's 1974 letter?

Thank you in advance. I an not try to argue or say you're wrong, only would like to see your scriptural evidence. I think REV clearly shows the last 2000 yrs since Christ Jesus and tribulation.

Yes I believe in a 7 year tribulation preceded by the rapture of the church. I will save that for another thread sometime because it's been discussed on here at length in other places. I use quite a few different texts than the standard I Thess 4:13-17, I Cor 15:51-58, Rev 4:1. I am writing a book in it that will include the Biblical position for it as well as a refutation of mid tribulation theory, dominionist theology and full and partial preterism.
Regarding the 1590 removal of the 70th week, that was removed long before Fransisco removed it in the bogus Hexapla by Eusibius. But, Roman Catholic "futurism" is extremely different from that of those who hold to a future rapture, 7 year tribulation followed by a one thousand year reign of Christ with his saints on earth of which Catholics believe none of. There were numerous early church leaders (whom historians call "fathers") who taught a pre tribulation rapture concept, they just didn't call it "rapture", but they didn't call the Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit the Trinity either.
Regarding Cory Ten Booms 1974 letter, she wrote quite a few letters about her experiences in concentration camps, but assuming you are talking about the letter she wrote about the rapture, from what I remember it wasn't too far off. I'd have to dig up my biography books and find it.

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'CORRIE TEN BOOM AND THE RAPTURE'.

-
(This is from a letter Corrie wr
ot
e in 1974)

"The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible for them to do this because they are overcomers.

corriebible.jpg
Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are represe
nt
atives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things will change.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi conce
nt
ration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded i
nt
o a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two represe
nt
atives of Heaven in that room.

We may have been the Lord's only represe
nt
atives in that place of hatred, yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, "In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." We too, are to be overcomers – bringing the light of Jesus i
nt
o a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting "Hallelujah! Hallelujah!" for I have found where it is written that Jesus said,
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things:

and I will be His God,

and he shall be My son."

This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive – but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.
Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick.
"Yes, the Lord will heal me,", Betsy said with confidence.
She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.
It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy's death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.
There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.
In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

"We have failed.

We should have made the people strong for persecution,

rather than telling them Jesus would come first.

Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,

how to stand when the tribulation comes,

– to stand and n
ot
fai
nt
."

I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it.
We are next.
Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.
When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy.

"If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye;

for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you;

on
their
part evil is spoken of,

but on
your
part He is glorified."

(
)

I found myself saying, "Hallelujah!
Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!"
In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.
Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.
The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, "Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?"
The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.
"When I was a little girl, " I said, "I went to my father and said,
"Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ."
"Tell me," said Father,
"When you take a train trip to Amsterdam,
when do I give you the money for the ticket?
Three weeks before?"
"No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train."
"That is right," my father said, "and so it is with God's strength.
Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ.
He will supply all you need – just in time…"

My African friends were nodding and smiling.
Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing,

" In the sweet, by and by,

we shall meet on that beautiful shore."

Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed.
I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.
But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life.
How can we get ready for the persecution?
First we need to feed on the Word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.
Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of History,
but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive
and sitting at the right hand of God.
We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.
In the coming persecution we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other.
But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting.
The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christian's life.
Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too, am a little bit afraid when I think that after all my eighty years, including the horrible Nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also.
But then I read the Bible and I am glad.
When I am weak, then I shall be strong, the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord, we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down.

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him",
(
ob
)

for I know that to all who overcome,
He shall give the crown of life.
Hallelujah!"
- Corrie Ten Boom - 1974

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It's here: http://www.jesus-is-....com/corrie.htm But it is against the 7 yr tribulation. I think the Hexapla was prior to Eusebius or I may be mistaken.

Do you think the decree in Ezra 7: 12-28 was decreed in 457BC?

OK; I was slow; thanks John. I was listening to Adrian Rogers and he said that within the last 50 years that 100mm+ Christians have been killed. I started tracking it and yes; it is true. JFK was like throwing a light switch.

Edited by SamuelP

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It's here: http://www.jesus-is-....com/corrie.htm But it is against the 7 yr tribulation. I think the Hexapla was prior to Eusebius or I may be mistaken.

Do you think the decree in Ezra 7: 12-28 was decreed in 457BC?

OK; I was slow; thanks John. I was listening to Adrian Rogers and he said that within the last 50 years that 100mm+ Christians have been killed. I started tracking it and yes; it is true. JFK was like throwing a light switch.

I don't see a clear explanation of her timing but nonetheless, I don't get my theory of the rapture from her.
Origin was the one credited with altering and creating the Hexapla, but Eusibius further altered the texts and Catholicized it.
And no, I don't agree with the 457 date, I believe it was from the date the decree went into effect at 450 BC.

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