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Pray For America And Israel?

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I'm looking forward to reading a non-mangled "interpretation" of the 144,000. I assume the silence indicates approval of my reading of Scripture, or a recognition that it cannot be refuted from Scripture.

Eric confirms that the "futurists" consider that prophecy has nothing to do with the church, or anyone living in the Gospel age, but is all about some future generation in a future dispensation. The church will be "up there" enjoying a grandstand view of the tribulations below.

Come on folk - let's be practical - forget all the "Left Behind" rubbish that has nothing to do with us. We ARE living in the Gospel age, & we have the inspired Bible to teach & guide us.

Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.




No, there's no use in explaining it any more, if you had ears to hear, you would have already heard, for its been explained several, even many times. And there is no sense in making an insulting post. One has to use insults when they cannot just state disagreement, along with Bible proof of their disagreement.

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I'm looking forward to reading a non-mangled "interpretation" of the 144,000. I assume the silence indicates approval of my reading of Scripture, or a recognition that it cannot be refuted from Scripture.

Eric confirms that the "futurists" consider that prophecy has nothing to do with the church, or anyone living in the Gospel age, but is all about some future generation in a future dispensation. The church will be "up there" enjoying a grandstand view of the tribulations below.

Come on folk - let's be practical - forget all the "Left Behind" rubbish that has nothing to do with us. We ARE living in the Gospel age, & we have the inspired Bible to teach & guide us.

Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.



Covenanter,

Who are the 144,000?

Ezekiel 39:1–8 KJV
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

When Israel sees the heavens burn and roll up as a scroll they will turn back to God forever.

Revelation 6:14–17 KJV
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 7:2–8 KJV
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Ezekiel teaches that God will awaken Israel when He sends the fire on Russia in the north and America in the isles. When Israel sees the fire, they will know their Lord again forever. In Revelation 7:2–8, John saw the 144,000 Jews sealed by a mark on their forehead signifying God’s ownership because they repented after the nuclear attack. Each tribe had 12,000 sealed, except for the tribe of Dan.

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I'm looking forward to reading a non-mangled "interpretation" of the 144,000. I assume the silence indicates approval of my reading of Scripture, or a recognition that it cannot be refuted from Scripture.

Eric confirms that the "futurists" consider that prophecy has nothing to do with the church, or anyone living in the Gospel age, but is all about some future generation in a future dispensation. The church will be "up there" enjoying a grandstand view of the tribulations below.

Come on folk - let's be practical - forget all the "Left Behind" rubbish that has nothing to do with us. We ARE living in the Gospel age, & we have the inspired Bible to teach & guide us.

Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.



The non mangled interpretation of the passage is it means what it says and says what it means. It's 144,000 Jews from the tribes of Israel. Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not "born again Jews" or "Jewish Christians" or the "Israel of God" (i.e. the church).

You have no evidence in history of 144,000 virgin male Christian Jews fleeing Israel before the fall of Jerusalem. Even if they did what happened to them afterward? Did they get married and move to France with Jesus and Mary Magdalene? Did they become Ethiopians? Did the become the Royal Family in England? You are making up history like the Mormons do.

And what about Daniel 9:27? What covenant did Jesus break in the midst of the week? The OT? Jesus didn't break it he fulfilled it. Plus, Jesus' ministry was 3 1/2 years not 7 years. Why the mention of another 3 1/2 years? Was it the NT? So Jesus broke the NT 3 1/2 years after his resurrection? Or perhaps it was Titus who broke the covenant in the midst of the week. Well, what "week" is this a reference to and how did Titus break the covenant? Either way you read it it doesn't make sense. You have to account for those 3 1/2 years after the covenant is broken.

Which covenant is it in Daniel 9:27? It's clear from Daniel 9:4 cross referenced with Exodus 20:6 that the covenant mentioned in that passage is the OT.

You need to put down your Church of England beliefs and believe the bible. Great Britain is not the Israel of God, the Royal Family are not descendants of the crown of Israel and Jerusalem will not be built on England's green and pleasant land. Edited by Wilchbla

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The non mangled interpretation of the passage is it means what it says and says what it means. It's 144,000 Jews from the tribes of Israel. Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not "born again Jews" or "Jewish Christians" or the "Israel of God" (i.e. the church).

You have no evidence in history of 144,000 virgin male Christian Jews fleeing Israel before the fall of Jerusalem. Even if they did what happened to them afterward? Did they get married and move to France with Jesus and Mary Magdalene? Did they become Ethiopians? Did the become the Royal Family in England? You are making up history like the Mormons do.

And what about Daniel 9:27? What covenant did Jesus break in the midst of the week? The OT? Jesus didn't break it he fulfilled it. Plus, Jesus' ministry was 3 1/2 years not 7 years. Why the mention of another 3 1/2 years? Was it the NT? So Jesus broke the NT 3 1/2 years after his resurrection? Or perhaps it was Titus who broke the covenant in the midst of the week. Well, what "week" is this a reference to and how did Titus break the covenant? Either way you read it it doesn't make sense. You have to account for those 3 1/2 years after the covenant is broken.

Which covenant is it in Daniel 9:27? It's clear from Daniel 9:4 cross referenced with Exodus 20:6 that the covenant mentioned in that passage is the OT.

You need to put down your Church of England beliefs and believe the bible. Great Britain is not the Israel of God, the Royal Family are not descendants of the crown of Israel and Jerusalem will not be built on England's green and pleasant land.

Why do you believe the 144,000 will not be born again? Do you believe them to still be lost in their sins yet doing the work of God? That really doesn't make sense. Scripture says they will be sealed. If they are servants of God, sealed by Him, they must be born again in Christ.

Why do you keep bringing up the oddball stuff about England and the royal family? The only folks I know who hold to anything near what you bring up are those who hold to British Israelism. There are also some who hold to an Irish version and there are Kingdom Identity folks (and others) here in America who hold to similar. I've not noticed anyone on this board putting forth such notions.

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The non mangled interpretation of the passage is it means what it says and says what it means. It's 144,000 Jews from the tribes of Israel. Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not "born again Jews" or "Jewish Christians" or the "Israel of God" (i.e. the church).
My understanding IS that the 144,000 were Jews, obviously from the tribes of Israel.

You have no evidence in history of 144,000 virgin male Christian Jews fleeing Israel before the fall of Jerusalem. The Jewish Christians did flee the city, as Jesus warned them. "Virgin" means religious pure, not celibate. (2 Cor. 11:2)
Even if they did what happened to them afterward? Scripture does not record - nor the actual destruction. They would become members of the Christian community/church wherever they went. Did they get married and move to France with Jesus and Mary Magdalene? Did they become Ethiopians? Did the become the Royal Family in England? You are making up history like the Mormons do.

And what about Daniel 9:27? What covenant did Jesus break in the midst of the week?
BREAK???? What version are you reading? My KJV (& most other translations) read: he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.
The OT? Jesus didn't break it he fulfilled it. Agreed, though Heb. says:
In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Plus, Jesus' ministry was 3 1/2 years not 7 years. Why the mention of another 3 1/2 years?
The 69 weeks takes to Jesus anointing as "Messiah the Prince." The 70th week takes us 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. 3 1/2 weeks of Jesus ministry, confirming the covenant with those who received him, & 3 1/2 weeks of Apostolic ministry up to Stephen & Cornelius. It is of course now the NC in Jesus' blood. Note:
And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.....
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Was it the NT? So Jesus broke the NT 3 1/2 years after his resurrection? Or perhaps it was Titus who broke the covenant in the midst of the week. Well, what "week" is this a reference to and how did Titus break the covenant? Either way you read it it doesn't make sense. You have to account for those 3 1/2 years after the covenant is broken. Why broken????? Daniel says NOTHING about a broken covenant in the 70 weeks prophecy.

Which covenant is it in Daniel 9:27? It's clear from Daniel 9:4 cross referenced with Exodus 20:6 that the covenant mentioned in that passage is the OT. Only Jesus could ever keep the OC, & by doing so he replaced it by the NC in his blood - the EC by which all the redeemed are saved.

You need to put down your Church of England beliefs and believe the bible. I left the CofE in 1957, after my conversion. Great Britain is not the Israel of God, the Royal Family are not descendants of the crown of Israel and Jerusalem will not be built on England's green and pleasant land. But America is????

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The non mangled interpretation of the passage is it means what it says and says what it means. It's 144,000 Jews from the tribes of Israel. Why is this so hard to grasp? It's not "born again Jews" or "Jewish Christians" or the "Israel of God" (i.e. the church).

You have no evidence in history of 144,000 virgin male Christian Jews fleeing Israel before the fall of Jerusalem. Even if they did what happened to them afterward? Did they get married and move to France with Jesus and Mary Magdalene? Did they become Ethiopians? Did the become the Royal Family in England? You are making up history like the Mormons do.

And what about Daniel 9:27? What covenant did Jesus break in the midst of the week? The OT? Jesus didn't break it he fulfilled it. Plus, Jesus' ministry was 3 1/2 years not 7 years. Why the mention of another 3 1/2 years? Was it the NT? So Jesus broke the NT 3 1/2 years after his resurrection? Or perhaps it was Titus who broke the covenant in the midst of the week. Well, what "week" is this a reference to and how did Titus break the covenant? Either way you read it it doesn't make sense. You have to account for those 3 1/2 years after the covenant is broken.

Which covenant is it in Daniel 9:27? It's clear from Daniel 9:4 cross referenced with Exodus 20:6 that the covenant mentioned in that passage is the OT.

You need to put down your Church of England beliefs and believe the bible. Great Britain is not the Israel of God, the Royal Family are not descendants of the crown of Israel and Jerusalem will not be built on England's green and pleasant land.


That is a somewhat nonsensical post. I have no Cof E beliefs. I never have. I do not believe that England is Israel, or America, for that matter. I never have, Neither do I believe that Jerusalem will be built on England's green and pleasant land. In fact I hate that song, and have often been in trouble for saying "The answer is No." Neither do I believe the Royal Family are descendants of the crown of Israel, or even Royal. My experience in London is that Americans, at least the tourists, think more of the British Royal Family than most of us do.

I do know a man Who does belive that the British Royal family is Jewish, but he belongs to a church started by one of your American weirdos, Armstrong. He said since the death of Armstrong, his church has ditched most Armstong beliefs. I asked him if they still believed that Britain and America were the "lost 10 tribes?" He said No!, but after a pause said "But I do." Edited by Invicta

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Invicta,

The RCC recognizes Jesus as the Son of God and is a part of the church that has strayed from the truth by adding to the truth.

After the taking away of the true church by Jesus, God will cause everyone who has heard the truth of the gospel and rejected Jesus to believe the lie of the antichrist.

All of the remaining people in the Christian churches after the rapture will be part of "Harlot Babylon"

The apostate Christian church will follow the antichrist because God will send them strong delusion to believe him 2Thessalonians 2:4-12.

The ecumenical apostate Christian church will be centered in Rome, the city on seven mountains.


Well thanks for answering. But I think you are understating the case somewhat,

Henry Grattan Guinness gave the following description of Rome with which I fully agree:

The Papacy had subverted both the government of God and the liberties of man. Its central principle involves the expulsion from the world of its rightful Ruler and Saviour, and substitutes for Him a dynasty of blasphemous usurpers. And it involves equally the destruction of all man’s noblest rights. It denies to him his lawful access to his Maker. A fellow mortal, a pretended priest, stands in the way, and blocks the path of eternal life. He stands across the sunshine of God’s love, and casts upon the trembling human spirit a deadly shade. He claims to have the keys of heaven and hell. He thunders lying anathemas, and forbids mankind to approach the throne of infinite mercy save through him, and then only just so far as he permits. Thus Christ is eclipsed, salvation is stolen; the Papal priest is substituted for the Saviour of sinners, the mystery of iniquity for the mystery of godliness, the proud pope of Rome for the holy Prince of Peace, poison for food; and Satan himself is palmed upon the Church of Jesus Christ as her head and husband. What a cursed system!

Thought can scarcely fathom the abyss of evil which it creates! It arrests the flowing of heaven’s waters in the wilderness, and turns the streams of life to stagnant, putrid blood. It arrests the shining of heaven’s holy light, the illuminating influence of gospel truth, and plunges the world in gloom and darkness so gross that they may be felt. It arrests the healing hand of Divine grace and forgiveness, and substitutes for it the polluting touch of priestly fingers, stained and contaminated with lust, hypocrisy, and blood. It changes grace, that sweet and sacred mystery, spiritual, holy, not of the earth, free, oh, how free, and how Divine! for it is the Spirit’s influence - it changes this into a mystical abomination, an insufferable compound, a something manipulated by the fingers of hypocrites, "ministered," as they say, through sacraments, and sacraments of their own invention and management. Seven sacraments, forsooth! A something transmitted, too, through a generation of pretended vicars of Jesus Christ, and their agents, and doled out by them to a dying world for pecuniary considerations! Do they not blush to perpetuate such damnable deceptions? Have the eternal interests of men no value in their eyes? Is the grace of God to be transmuted to a vile currency, that it may be deposited in the pockets of priests, and circulated by them as base coin is by rogues and vagabonds? Is conscience utterly dead within them? Dead? It is as good as dead; "seared with a hot iron," till it has lost the sense of right and wrong, and can no longer feel the infamy of doctrines and deeds which would have made the men of Sodom blush with shame. A system which travesties the truth, hardens the conscience, enslaves the mind, corrupts the heart, which buries the Bible, prostitutes the ministry, profanes the sacraments, persecutes the saints, betrays and butchers the flock of Christ, and outrages all that is sacred and all that is Divine - deserves and demands to be exposed, detested, judged, destroyed, and swept out of an injured world.


Edited to put in italics, as in the original Edited by Invicta

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Better stand for and with Jesus. Rothschild created the modern day Israel in 1897 and used his family hexagram flag changing it from red to blue and calling it the star of David. The hexagram's value = 666. The Askenazi Jews are not blood-line Jews nor ever from Israel. Look at what Jesus said about the Jews and why..... There is a reason they are of their father the devil. Has there ever been a blood-line Jew in office in Israel? Where are the 12 tribes? Priest? ----------- don't exist. The 7 yr trib is wrong teaching....... 70 weeks; not 69. Daniel 9:24 clearly explains this. the false teaching of the catholics in 1590AD where Francisco Ribers created the 7 yr trib by removing Daniel's 70th week is false teaching from the Antichrist. Track the Jews from David and see how they departed; read Exe and see Christ Jesus same basic statements

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REV 14 and the 144,000 from each tribe............ the 12k each are the "frist fruits'........ not the last. There is no 7 yr trib priod. there is Great Tribulation and now since JFK ~100mm Christians have been killed. It took the Catholics 1700 yrs to do this. Forget about waiting for the temple to be build so Jesus can return; it is bunk created by the catholics. Apply some common sense and read the scriptures and what they actually say. Jesus can come NOW; the temple does not have to be rebuilt so satan can take charge. Leave fantacy to Disney and the catholics.......... don't drink the wine of their wrath. Jesus arose; satan was bound and loosed at the 1000 yr period and then bound again with the reformation and now re-loosed at the next 1000 yrs for great tribulation ----------- 2000 yrs since Jesus (convert from or to the 360 day yr and it's time for Jesus to return). Jesus is coming soon. Get the catholic teaching out of your diet. Hal Lindsey is a joke from the catholics via CC carlson to you.

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REV 14 and the 144,000 from each tribe............ the 12k each are the "frist fruits'........ not the last. There is no 7 yr trib priod. there is Great Tribulation and now since JFK ~100mm Christians have been killed. It took the Catholics 1700 yrs to do this. Forget about waiting for the temple to be build so Jesus can return; it is bunk created by the catholics. Apply some common sense and read the scriptures and what they actually say. Jesus can come NOW; the temple does not have to be rebuilt so satan can take charge. Leave fantacy to Disney and the catholics.......... don't drink the wine of their wrath. Jesus arose; satan was bound and loosed at the 1000 yr period and then bound again with the reformation and now re-loosed at the next 1000 yrs for great tribulation ----------- 2000 yrs since Jesus (convert from or to the 360 day yr and it's time for Jesus to return). Jesus is coming soon. Get the catholic teaching out of your diet. Hal Lindsey is a joke from the catholics via CC carlson to you.

Could you explain this bound and loosed and rebound and reloosed? Where is that recorded in Scripture and how do you come to your dates for that?

Also, what does JFK have to do with this timeline and what is your source for the number of actual Christians killed by the RCC and since JFK?

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Better stand for and with Jesus. Rothschild created the modern day Israel in 1897 and used his family hexagram flag changing it from red to blue and calling it the star of David. The hexagram's value = 666. The Askenazi Jews are not blood-line Jews nor ever from Israel. Look at what Jesus said about the Jews and why..... There is a reason they are of their father the devil. Has there ever been a blood-line Jew in office in Israel? Where are the 12 tribes? Priest? ----------- don't exist. The 7 yr trib is wrong teaching....... 70 weeks; not 69. Daniel 9:24 clearly explains this. the false teaching of the catholics in 1590AD where Francisco Ribers created the 7 yr trib by removing Daniel's 70th week is false teaching from the Antichrist. Track the Jews from David and see how they departed; read Exe and see Christ Jesus same basic statements

I have heard the assertion that the European, Askenazi. Jews, are of Khazar origin, whose king adopted the Jewish faith in 740, & ordered his followers likewise. This was to maintain independence from Muslim & Orthodox empires. In that case, they would not be descendants of Abraham.

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I have heard the assertion that the European, Askenazi. Jews, are of Khazar origin, whose king adopted the Jewish faith in 740, & ordered his followers likewise. This was to maintain independence from Muslim & Orthodox empires. In that case, they would not be descendants of Abraham.

Yes, there are those Jews, but as we are told in Scripture a true Jew is a Jew by heart, not by birth or circumcision or any other means.

Israel accepts all Jews, whether they be Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Ethiopian, etc.

Excerpt from New World Encyclopedia:

Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim, are Jews descended from the medieval Jewish communities of the Rhineland—"Ashkenaz" being the Medieval Hebrew name for Germany. They are distinguished from Sephardic Jews, the other main group of European Jewry, who arrived earlier in Europe and lived primarily in Spain.
Many Ashkenazim later migrated, largely eastward, forming communities in Germany, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Eastern Europe, and elsewhere between the tenth and nineteenth centuries. From medieval times until the mid-twentieth century, the lingua franca among Ashkenazi Jews was primarily Yiddish.
The Ashkenazi Jews developed a distinct liturgy and culture, influenced to varying degrees, by interaction with surrounding peoples, predominantly Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Kashubians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Letts, Belarusians, and Russians.
Although in the eleventh century they comprised only three percent of the world's Jewish population, Ashkenazi Jews accounted for 92 percent of the world's Jews in 1931, and today make up approximately 80 percent of Jews worldwide. Most Jewish communities with extended histories in Europe are Ashkenazim, with the exception of Sephardic Jews associated with the Mediterranean region. A significant portion of the Jews who migrated from Europe to other continents in the past two centuries are Eastern Ashkenazim, particularly in the United States. Ashkenazi Jews have made major contributions to world culture in terms of science, literature, economics, and the arts.

DNA clues

Efforts to identify the origins of Ashkenazi Jews through DNA analysis began in the 1990s. Like most DNA studies of human migration patterns, these studies have focused on two segments of the human genome, the Y chromosome (inherited only by males), and the mitochondrial genome (DNA which passes from mother to child). Both segments are unaffected by recombination. Thus, they provide an indicator of paternal and maternal origins, respectively.
Recent research indicates that a significant portion of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry is also of Middle Eastern origin. A 2006 study by Behar et al. [2] suggested that about 40 percent of the current Ashkenazi population is descended matrilineally from just four women. These four "founder lineages" were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries C.E.


More at:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ashkenazi

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REV 14 and the 144,000 from each tribe............ the 12k each are the "frist fruits'........ not the last. There is no 7 yr trib priod. there is Great Tribulation and now since JFK ~100mm Christians have been killed. It took the Catholics 1700 yrs to do this. Forget about waiting for the temple to be build so Jesus can return; it is bunk created by the catholics. Apply some common sense and read the scriptures and what they actually say. Jesus can come NOW; the temple does not have to be rebuilt so satan can take charge. Leave fantacy to Disney and the catholics.......... don't drink the wine of their wrath. Jesus arose; satan was bound and loosed at the 1000 yr period and then bound again with the reformation and now re-loosed at the next 1000 yrs for great tribulation ----------- 2000 yrs since Jesus (convert from or to the 360 day yr and it's time for Jesus to return). Jesus is coming soon. Get the catholic teaching out of your diet. Hal Lindsey is a joke from the catholics via CC carlson to you.


With you using the word joke in your post, I must say your post is nothing but a big joke, & does not follow Bible teachings.

Its not nice coming in here using the word joke, & say we better stand for & with Jesus, makes it seem as you've got a attitude.

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Wilchbla -
And what about Daniel 9:27? What covenant did Jesus break in the midst of the week?

Ian -
BREAK???? What version are you reading? My KJV (& most other translations) read:
he shall confirm the covena
nt
with many for one week
.


I have discovered the versions used by Wilchbla - New Living or Good News
26
"After this period of sixty-two sets of seven,* the Anoi
nt
ed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished n
ot
hing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.

27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven,* but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds,* he will set up a sacrilegious
ob
ject that causes desecration,* u
nt
il the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."
(NLT)


26
And at the end of that time God's chosen leader will be killed unjustly.
[
]
The city and the Temple will be destroyed by the invading army of a powerful ruler. The end will come like a flood, bringing the war and destruction which God has prepared.

27
That ruler will have a firm agreeme
nt
with many people for seven years, and when half this time is past, he will put an end to sacrifices and offerings. The Awful Horror
[
]
will be placed on the highest poi
nt
of the Temple and will remain there u
nt
il the one who put it there meets the end which God has prepared for him.” (GNV)


The KJV reads:
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but n
ot
for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and u
nt
o the end of the war desolations are determined.

27
And he shall confirm the covena
nt
with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
ob
lation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even u
nt
il the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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KJV: he shall confirm the covenant

Or the Scofield "Bible" -
The "he" of Daniel 9:27 is the "prince that shall come" of Daniel 9:26, whose people (Rome) destroyed the temple, A.D. 70. He is the same with the "little horn" of chapter 7. He will covenant with the Jews to restore their temple sacrifices for one week (seven years), but in the middle of that time he will break the covenant and fulfil ; Daniel 12:11; 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. Between the sixty-ninth week, after which Messiah was cut off, and the seventieth week, within which the "little horn" of Dan. 7. will run his awful course, intervenes this entire Church-age. Daniel 9:27deals with the last three and a half years of the seven, which are identical with the "great tribulation." Matthew 24:15-28 "time of trouble" Daniel 12:1 hour of temptation" Revelation 3:10. (see "Tribulation," ; Psalms 2:5; Revelation 7:14). (See Scofield "Psalms 2:5") .


Are "confirm" & "break" interchangeable ????

I make no apology for reading & understanding the Bible in its literal sense. Edited by Covenanter

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DNA makes the Jew @~10% --- real bloodline Jews. Regardless; temple worship nor sacrifice of animals are worth anything. You may wish to read the study of the genetic research center from the Hebrew University in Israel.

Folks running around claiming that the Jews are God's chosen people when the Christian is God's chosen people. Read what John the Baptist has to say about the Jews and also Jesus and try Eze 8 as well.

There is no 7 yr trib. REV 20 talks of 2,000 yrs. Jesus is resurrected and satan bound then loosed at the end of a thousand yrs where the catholics are using the inquisition and crusades and killing milllions of christians until satan is again bound with reformation and now again loosed at the end of the second thousand years and basically sinceJKK there has been ~100mm Christians killede by catholics and muslims............

The 7 yr trib is from the catholics by removing Daniel's 70th week about Jesus and making it end-time about Antichrist...... forget the fairy tale created by Franscisco Ribera to counteract the reformation they created Halloween to replace reformation day and the catholics's mass is evil...... do not take the unholy day of dec 25th and celebrate mass....... it is satans attempt to curcfy Jesus afresh. Jesus was probably born on Sep 9th 4 BC...........j

The full 70 weeks are required to make for the correct timiny for the real Christ Jesus of Nazareth. I think this puts His resurrection at 30 AD and +40 for the Temple to be destroyed and the end of Israel as having anything to do with old convenant. 46 yrs in building the temple and now satan in 3.5 yrs is to stand there after the rapture ------------ 7 yrs saying the temple has to be build before Jesus can return is not scriptural............

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Samuel

It does not help your argument if you make statements without historical or biblical quotations. I have recently downloaded and read the "Trail of Blood" by Mr Carrol and he does just that. I do have a number of other differences with him, but the first is he makes many statements without and backup evidence.

Edited by Invicta

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Ironically I'm not arguing; point one. Two; if all the "re;s" are displayed this wouldn't be a forum but rather a class. 100mm Christians is common knowledge and easily found.

The Great Tribulation is NOW. It is not a 7 yr period created by the catholics in 1590AD. Christians are God's elect. Temple worship is not adequate not good for salvation by killing animals. Where is that temple; why does it have to be present for Christ Jesus to return? Israel (modern day) was created by Rothschild in 1897 and his flag used (hexagram) and called the star of David........ the whole thing is a lie. They are not blood line Jews nor is Israel of Jacob descended of Shem.. Semetic peoples comprise four langues and are not referenced to Jews only. Stand with and for Christ Jesus..... Standing with Israel is standing against Christ.. Quit playing church and worship the true and living God...... Christ Mass is a satanic ritual and for those not having backbone enough to stand with Jesus............. Who doesn't know better than it is a pagan holiay...... Who doesn't know Jesus was born slightly Roman tax time (Sep 2)...... tending flocks .............. come on............. time to stop silly arguments.......... folks in error are not necessarily false teachers or false prophets....... a lot of good Christians are still duped by the catholics and their teachings.......... Halloween was Reformation Day until they changed it to a day of pagans and for pagans.... The echarist is a ritual to give satan honor while he laughs at folks crucifying Jesus afresh. Get the pagan rituals out of churches or places where real Christians worship ----------- stand iwth Jesus........... His yoke is easy and burdens light.............. Stand up with Jesus ye soldiers of the cross.

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My King has been good to me......... His Kingdom is present........ The Lord's prayer says it should be on earth as in Heaven...... I belong to His Kingdom....... I do not appreciate churches placing an American flag in a place of prominence on the right side in a church standing above everything else............. think about it.

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With regard to having love for the brethren; not all Christians understand 'all' the same. Peter and Paul are good examples. I have respect for some that do not agree with me. Some that don't agree with me are better Christians in doing than I. Only Christ Jesus was/is perfect. One Ian is such that I admire and is knowledgeable but we do not see eye-to-eye on everything. Yet, I esteem him as a gracious Christian and have much respect for him. We should seek the truth and be honest........ ever make a mistake? I have friends that do not think a Christian is assured of Heaven and won't make it unless they keep themselves from sin............ I think we'll see many of such in Heaven. I stand with Jesus not Israel of Rothschild creation. ALL stand in need of Christ Jesus' salvation regardless of birth...........

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Thanks, Sam.
I consider we should have a broad agreement on the inspiration & authority of Scripture, & on salvation by repentance & active faith in Jesus Christ as Lord, God & Saviour. Also that we are all accountable to him, & will be answerable to him when he returns for resurrection & judgment. A living faith in Jesus makes us brothers & sisters - children of God.

Some matters we can disagree on without falling out, or forming a separate church for only those who agree with us. Forums like this enable us to explore our disagreements. There are matters of interpretation which may cause separation on a church basis, but would not prevent communion on occasions where churches meet together.

e.g. I would not settle in a church where infant baptism was practised, but I am in fellowship with some who recognise as Scriptural their infant baptism. I wouldn't ex-communicate the KJV translators, nor the Puritans. I have no problem with believers' baptism by sprinkling. I would not settle in a church using CCM led by worship leader & pop group, but I am happy to sing Scriptural CCM hymns sung reverently.

Nor would I settle in a church where pretrib/premil was taught, but I do maintain fellowship with those who teach such misinterpetations of Scripture.

That brings us to vital principles of reading & understanding Scripture:

Is the plain meaning of a Scripture passage clear?

Where a literal reading raises questions, what are the principles of
i
nt
erpretation
?


In the context of this thread, should we understand the clear OT promises regarding Israel as yet to be fulfilled, or are they being fulfilled in Christ, so that the promises apply to believing Israel, comprising Jew & Gentile as one redeemed people of God?

To answer such questions, we need to study how the NT writers used & interpreted the OT Scriptures. Interpreting needs a LOT of reading & understanding. Edited by Covenanter

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Jesus was crucified on WED - midst of the week and arose probably late SAT or past 6P making it the first day of the week. The New Testament broke away with the old........... Ye are the Temple ........... no need for animal sacrifice. Stand with Jesus.......... fake Jews do not have the path of salvation that only Christ Jesus can provide.

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The lord is not done with Israel!

Isaiah 30:18–30 KJV
18 And therefore will the Lord wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the Lord is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.


Israel took control of Jerusalem again in 1967 after an almost two- thousand-year wait. Verses 19–24 of Isaiah chapter 30 describe Israel as living in hard times today. However, God has restored their wintertime rains and snows because Israel got rid of their idols. The later rains started in approximately 1982. God is also giving their leadership guidance. Unfortunately, Israel has not turned back to God. Think about it. This Bible passage was written to and for our generation! How could Isaiah
have known that the climate would change so Israel could have grain for their animals? How could Isaiah have known that Israel would destroy their gold and silver idols? He knows because God told Isaiah. Fulfilled Bible prophecy proves the Bible is the Word of God!

Israel today

20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
22 Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.
23 Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
24 The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.

Israel in the tribulation period

Read verses 25 and 26 of Isaiah 30; they describe the moon shining as bright as our sun today, and the sun becoming seven times stronger than it is right now. These phenomena will happen after the Lord sends the nuclear war and the ozone layer burns off all the way around the world.

25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
27 Behold, the name of the Lord cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
28 And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.
29 Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the Lord, to the mighty One of Israel.
30 And the Lord shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
—Isaiah 30:18–30 KJV

God has given Israel another chance to get right. Most continue to reject Jesus as their Messiah. They have turned from righteousness, according to Isaiah, and God is about to judge Israel. Zephaniah 1:14–2:3 says the judgment “is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly” when you see Israel the nation gathered.

Edited by Eric Stahl

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