Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

P_Bear141

Pray For America And Israel?

Recommended Posts


Asking someone how they will mangle Scripture is mocking or denigrating, or both. This is unnecessary and unhelpful. In other posts you show you can provide answers, responses and rebuttals without such talk and in those there is openness for discussion and edification.


I was going to provide a "rebuttal" after he got done mangling the scripture.

By the way John, I never see you providing too many rebuttals. You seem to always run to his defense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to provide a "rebuttal" after he got done mangling the scripture.

By the way John, I never see you providing too many rebuttals. You seem to always run to his defense.

Whose defense? All I'm talking about is conducting our conversations kindly and respectfully whatever the topic may be.

If a Christian joins the groups and claims that one must speak in tongues or they are not saved we can put forth Scripture showing the falsehood of such a belief without having to attack the poster in any way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Noah' Ark? It's in Turkey in the Ararat Mountains. The upper part of the hull has moved a couple of miles down a slope but it's still there, bolts and all according to some. Hovind mentioned someone in Oklahoma or thereabouts having pieces of it on display in their converted gas station.

Wow! Are you sure they are not pieces of the true cross??????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! Are you sure they are not pieces of the true cross??????

This reminds me of how funny, deceptive and gross the RCC, Orthodox and others have been over the centuries with their claims of possessing "sacred relics". At one time there were pieces of the cross in RC churches around the world. The RCC even claimed to have the circumsiced forskin of Jesus in their possession!

Then there is the whole deal of putting body parts of departed "saints" in churches...and much worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't that story come from Ron Wyatt?

http://www.christian...-the-sda-church


Yes, that's who Hovind was talking about. The author of that article got many details of Wyatt's claims about the Red Sea Crossing wrong. I came across the Red Sea stuff before I became a Christian since wreck diving was an interest of mine. One can dive to 200 feet on recreational SCUBA, it just has to configured differently and have more of it.


No, not Noah's ark. The Arc of the Covenant which had the mercy seat upon it where the blood of a lamb was poured once a year for the atonement of Israel's sins. Instead the arc was the two tables of stone containing the ten commandments, Aaron's rod that budded and a golden pot of manna. For the sacrifices to be reinstituted (i.e. when the covenant is confirmed) the arc must first be found.


Hovind mentioned Wyatt's discovery of the Arc of the Convenant which is said to be directly underneath Calvary, where Christ was crucified.

I did not know that Wyatt was a Seventh Day Adventist until reading the above article.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is the Ark of the Covenant?


Introduction

The Ark of the Covenant disappeared off of the pages of history by the time of the Babylonian Captivity. Nothing in the Bible is said about the Ark in the Old Testament after the return from Babylon, but the Apocrypha states that the Ark could not be found when the Jewish people rebuilt the Temple at the time of Ezra and Zechariah. The explanation in the Apocrypha was that Jeremiah hid the Ark in a cave in Mt. Nebo before the Babylonian invasion, and that its location would not be revealed until God was ready for it to be found.


No Ark in the Second Temple

Thus, the Holy of Holies in the Second Temple was an empty chamber, without the Ark of the Covenant. When the Roman General Pompey conquered Jerusalem around 63 B.C., he demanded the privilege of entering the Holy of Holies. When he did, he came out saying that he could not understand what all the interest was about the sanctuary, when it was only an empty room.

The fact that the Ark of the Covenant was not used in the Second Temple has led to the speculation of where the Ark is, or if it still exists on the earth. The Ark was so important in Israel from the time of Moses through the Judges and the First Temple era, that it seems remarkable that nothing is said of it in the Bible after the Babylonian Captivity, until the Letter to the Hebrews and the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. In Hebrews it is described as it was in the original Tabernacle made by Moses; and in Revelation, the Ark is seen by John in heaven. In neither case is the Ark mentioned as something that remains on the earth now.


Is the Ark Needed for the Tribulation Temple?

One question that arises is, can the Temple be rebuilt if it does not contain the Ark? The Scriptures indicate that the Temple will be rebuilt and standing during the Tribulation period, and that the Tribulation Temple will be desecrated by the Antichrist. How can the worship of Yahweh be resumed as it was in ancient times if there is no Ark in the Holy of Holies? We have already seen, though, that the absence of the Ark of the Covenant did not keep the Temple from being rebuilt at the conclusion of the Babylonian Captivity.

The Second Temple stood for over 500 years without containing an Ark, and it was fully recognized as a valid house of worship for the Lord. Christ Himself declared the Temple to be His Father’s House. So it would not be unthinkable to build the Tribulation Temple, even if the Ark is not discovered. If the Ark does still exist, however, and it were somehow discovered, it would certainly give rise to a strong movement in Israel and around the world to rebuild the Temple to house the Ark properly.


Is the Ark Hidden in the Temple Mount?

There persists a legend that the Ark does exist on earth, but is hidden. A recently published book by Randall Price, entitled In Search of Temple Treasures, presents the various views on what has happened to the Ark. Some of the traditions place the Ark outside of Israel, such as at Mt. Nebo, Egypt and even far-off Ethiopia. But all of these traditions have problems and seem unlikely, since there is a lack of any scriptural evidence for them.

A view that has predominated in rabbinic circles is that the Ark was hidden in a cave beneath the Temple Mount in the very heart of Israel. The theory goes that the priests hid the Ark beneath the Temple Mount, perhaps as early as during the time of King Josiah, since the coming prophesied invasion by the Babylonians was only a matter of time. By hiding the Ark and other Temple treasures, the priests felt that the priceless sacred articles could be protected from desecration by the pagan invaders.


Why Didn’t Israel Use the Ark in the Second Temple?

As it turned out, the Babylonians did invade Jerusalem. They destroyed the Temple and carried away many of the vessels and implements to their capital city a thousand miles away. No mention is made in the Scriptures of the Babylonians taking the Ark, the Menorah, or other key Temple items. If the Ark and the other implements were hidden under the Temple, why weren’t they recovered and used after the Captivity? It’s hard to imagine that the priests would have knowingly left the Ark out of the Holy of Holies if they could have utilized it during the 500 years of the Second Temple.

The explanation offered is that they felt that as long as Jerusalem was subject to domination by the succeeding powers of Babylonia, Persia, Greece, and Rome, the Ark and other treasures could be desecrated and captured by the Gentile armies. Thus, the sacred items would remain in seclusion until it was considered safe to bring them out to be placed in the Temple.


The Rabbinical Attempt to Find the Ark

At any rate, Rabbi Shlomo Goren and Rabbi Yehuda Getz, the rabbis in charge of the Western Wall area, are convinced that the Ark has been hidden in a cave in the Temple Mount directly under the site of the Holy of Holies, since the time of King Josiah. They probably represent the majority of Orthodox rabbis in their views. They have a concept of vertical air space, by which the space of the Holy of Holies sanctifies the ground directly below it. Thus, the ancient priests would have been careful to locate the cave repository for the Ark in the sanctified area below the Holy of Holies. The evidence for all of these suppositions about the location of the Ark, as Rabbi Getz concedes, comes more from the Talmud than the Scriptures. Nevertheless, there is a large and growing group of Orthodox Jewish adherents who believe that the Ark is in this cave below the Holy of Holies, and awaits the right time to be found.

Rabbi Getz believes that in 1982 he was very close, within 40 feet, to finding the cave in which the Ark resides. He was conducting a search in an old tunnel that had been filled with the debris of centuries, which runs perpendicular to the Western Wall and under the Temple Mount. However, when the Moslems discovered that there were diggings being conducted under the Dome of the Rock, they threatened a general riot and the diggings were stopped. The rabbi explains that, for the sake of maintaining peace with their Moslem neighbors, the Israelis had to reseal the entrance to the tunnel, and it remains blocked up to this day.


Temple Interest an Indication of the Imminent Rapture

The Scriptures are not clear as to whether the Ark of the Covenant still exists on the earth, but they are clear that the Temple will be rebuilt and standing during the Tribulation. There is no question that if the Ark were found, it would give enormous impetus to the rebuilding of the Temple to house it. Bible-believing Christians should keep a sharp eye out for any developments surrounding the Temple Mount, realizing that it is a key element leading to the Tribulation era. The closer we get to the Tribulation, the closer we are to the imminent Rapture of the Church, which, we believe the Scriptures teach, will precede the Tribulation. Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus.

http://www.levitt.com/essays/ark.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you believe that God still has a special place in his heart for the NATION of Israel (I'm not talking about "spiritural Jews" or "Jewish Christians" here)? Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


Do you believe that Israel will be restored to God as his chosen nation sometime in the future? Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Do you believe that the promises and covenants still belong to them?

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Dan 9:27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mr 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Lu 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.


Heb. 8:1 ¶ Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Do you believe they have a right to the land of Palestine?

Lu 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Do you believe that they should hand their land over to the Arabs?
No


Do you believe that the OT promises made to Abraham and David still apply to them? Be specific and quote which promises

Do you believe that Christ's literal and physical 1000 year reign will be upon this earth located in Israel with his capital in Jerusalem? The New Jerusalem

If not then, like most churches that came out of the Reformation and which persecuted the Jews, you do believe in Replacement Theology. And please don't try telling me that what I listed above is what the Jesuits believe. No I don't believe in replacement theology. I have said that many times on here. Why do I have to keep repeating it? I believe that the church is part of Israel, not replaced it. It is commonly said on this site that Baptists did not come out of the reformation. That is just wishful thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The 144,000 & related posts.

Invicta - The book of Revelation is a history of THE CHURCH, written in advance.
All predictive prophecy is history written in advance. While I agree with your history, & agree that there is much that we can learn from fulfilled prophecy, I consider that Revelation was written, as Jesus states in the opening verses, for its first readers who were suffering tribulation. However the internal evidence is that Revelation was written before the AD 70 destruction.

Wilchbla - Oh yeah? Then explain the 144,000. I'd like to see how your gonna mangle this.
Again. let him explain who the 144,000 are. It should be a blast.

1Tim - Aren't they living in one of the new West Bank settlements?
144,000 virgin men????

Wilchbla - Huh?

I don't believe they know who the 144,000 are yet because all records have been lost. Somehow God will have to reveal this to them. Maybe when they find the Ark of the Covenant.
The ark was lost at the time of the Babylonian destruction of the temple. In any case it was an Old Covenant symbol. It has no relevance in the New Covenant sealed by Jesus' blood.


Swathdiver - Isn't the ark under Calvary? Didn't Christ's blood run down through cracks and onto the table of shewbread?

Linda - Didn't that story come from Ron Wyatt?

Ian - No. Not a "blast" but a study of Scripture.

1Tim - Sounds as logical as my guess that they live in a West Bank village.
I gave a carefully reasoned Scriptural argument. No-one has attempted to prove me wrong from Scripture.

LuAnne - Revelation deals with much more than the Church. It also deals with the Jews. It deals with judgment. It deals with eternity/heaven/the new Jerusalem. There's too much in that book to just say that it deals with the Church.
There I can agree.

Wilchbla - I'm talking about the literal ark. If the Antichrist is going to confirm the covenant then the ark will need to be found.
That's a very questionable "IF."

And yet you still haven't explained who the 144,000 are.
Read my post.

How is what I'm saying "corrupt communication"? The problem with you John is you want to treat heresies with kid gloves. Every time these issues come up you run to the defense of the "preterists" and "historicists". How is that edifying?
It is edifying because we use Scripture to show what we teach, & John obviously approves of Scriptural arguments, even if he doesn't agree with them. You haven't attempted to show that preterism & historicism are heresies.

Jerry - Excuse me John, But many are professors only, & not born again, so really, its not amazing that there's so many different interpretation of the Scriptures. Being as few will enter the narrow strait gate, & many will enter the broad wide gate, that manes there will be many false teachers of the Scriptures.
Have you any specific contributors in mind, Jerry?

Wilchbla - What did I say that was so unkind? Peter said these kind of people "wrest" the scripture (he said this in the context of prophecy too) and I said he was going to "mangle" the scripture (which he does do). How is what I said anything worse?
We use what the Scriptures clearly teach, not "wrest" nor "mangle." Unless, of course, you can show otherwise from Scripture.

Ian - The 144,000 are the Christian Jews who were protected, sealed by the Holy Spirit, & who fled the city before its destruction.

Wilchbla - Are you serious? Then they were raptured up into heaven along with the two witnesses, right? Or did they flee to England and become the royal family?
??????

Ian - I do not understand your "logic." I have carefully explained from Scripture who the 144,000 were. Try refuting that explanation from Scripture.

Swathdiver - I don't think you can call them Christians. They will be Jewish virgin men from the 12 tribes from today's nation of Israel chosen after the rapture. Revelation of Jesus Christ chapters 7 and 14.
Of course we should call them "Christian" for there can now be NO "servants of our God" who do not believe in Jesus as Messiah/Christ. Also there is no need to insist on them being physical virgins. The OT is full of the LORD protesting at the adulterous behaviour of Israel, when she should should be behaving as a spiritual virgin.
Jeremiah complains: Therefore thus saith the LORD; Ask ye now among the heathen, who hath heard such things: the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.

Paul writes: For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
In Hebrews: Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:


John (to Wilchbla) - You mock and denigrate rather than put forth biblical reasons for your positions.
Agreed.

Invicta - I do not believe replacement theology. I believe what the bible teaches and that is we are grafted into Israel and when the fulness of the gentiles has come in, the Jews will be grafted back in.
I won't argue with that, though I believe the Jews are being continually grafted back in, & within a generation cease to be Jews as they are rejected & disowned by their community.
NOT a Christian, but Edwina Currie has just reported that her father held a funeral for her when when she got engaged to a Gentile.


Wilchbla - No, not Noah's ark. The Arc of the Covenant which had the mercy seat upon it where the blood of a lamb was poured once a year for the atonement of Israel's sins. Instead the arc was the two tables of stone containing the ten commandments, Aaron's rod that budded and a golden pot of manna. For the sacrifices to be reinstituted (i.e. when the covenant is confirmed) the arc must first be found.
That wsan't a problem with the second temple.

I haven't mocked anyone. I may have mocked their ridiculous beliefs which, by the way, have led to the slaughter of millions of Jews. You are just too sensitive.

I was going to provide a "rebuttal" after he got done mangling the scripture.
Have you decided not to now, having read the Scriptural arguments?

By the way John, I never see you providing too many rebuttals. You seem to always run to his defense.
Perhaps that is because he reads the arguments?

John - Temple Interest an Indication of the Imminent Rapture

The Scriptures are not clear as to whether the Ark of the Covenant still exists on the earth, but they are clear that the Temple will be rebuilt and standing during the Tribulation. ? Where ??? There is no question that if the Ark were found, it would give enormous impetus to the rebuilding of the Temple to house it. Bible-believing Christians should keep a sharp eye out for any developments surrounding the Temple Mount, realizing that it is a key element leading to the Tribulation era. The closer we get to the Tribulation, the closer we are to the imminent Rapture of the Church, which, we believe the Scriptures teach, will precede the Tribulation. Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus.
I am a Bible-believing Christian & I consider affairs in Israel to have no prophetic significance. The tribulation prophesied by the Lord Jesus occurred in the run-up to AD 70. The next great prophetic event will be our Lord's return for resurrection & judgment.
Watch & Pray!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



So you believe that the Jews aren't entitled to the land because they are to be continued to be trodden down by us until the completion of the church?

You believe that the covenant confirm in Daniel 9 is the NT?

See, this is what I'm saying. Mangled scripture. MANGLED! And not one peep from John in defense of the truth. Edited by Wilchbla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hovind mentioned Wyatt's discovery of the Arc of the Convenant which is said to be directly underneath Calvary, where Christ was crucified.




The ark is in heaven.

Rev. 11:19- And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

My guess is that the Jews will go ahead and build another ark or that the Antichrist will "find" it someplace and give it to them. Edited by Wilchbla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Where is the Ark of the Covenant?


I once read a booklet by that title and the author considered many possibilities and came to the conclusion that Solomon gave it to the Queen of Sheba as it said he gave her her hearts desire. He said that the ark was not mentioned after Solomon. However Josiah mentiones putting it in the temple.

Some say that the Triumphal Arch of Titus which depicts the treasures of the temple including the candlestick, also shows the ark being carried. If so, it is somewhat smaller than I would expect but I suppose it could be "not to scale". I did read that the treasures from Jerusalem were taken from Rome and lost at sea in a storm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1948


So you believe that the Jews aren't entitled to the land because they are to be continued to be trodden down by us until the completion of the church?

You believe that the covenant confirm in Daniel 9 is the NT?

See, this is what I'm saying. Mangled scripture. MANGLED! And not one peep from John in defense of the truth.


Yolu are absolutley mangling what I said.

My answer was a quote from the scripture Either you are dishonest or you are a confused bunny.
Lu 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The Jews have returned, so the times of the Gentiles must have been fulfilled.

The times were fulfilled, either when Allenby marched into Jerusalem in 1917 or in 1948.


You believe that the covenant confirm in Daniel 9 is the NT?


Absolutletly. The scripture that I quoted showed that Christ came as a minister to confirm the promises, that is the covenant, made to the fathers. It is no secret, I have posted that before. Almost a direct quote from Daniel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I earlier asked a number of questions which weren't answered, I will make it easier b y repeating just one.

3. The Reformation.Was it a:

a, Work of God
b. Work of man,
c. Work of Satan

Anyone can answer.

Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the ark important?

Jer 3:16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. 17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I earlier asked a number of questions which weren't answered, I will make it easier b y repeating just one.

3. The Reformation.Was it a:

a, Work of God
b. Work of man,
c. Work of Satan

Anyone can answer.


Probably a little bit of all. God starts the movement. Man turns it into a machine. Eventually Satan turns it into a monument where the birds of the air like to perch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1948

Yolu are absolutley mangling what I said.

My answer was a quote from the scripture Either you are dishonest or you are a confused bunny.
Lu 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The Jews have returned, so the times of the Gentiles must have been fulfilled.

The times were fulfilled, either when Allenby marched into Jerusalem in 1917 or in 1948.



Absolutletly. The scripture that I quoted showed that Christ came as a minister to confirm the promises, that is the covenant, made to the fathers. It is no secret, I have posted that before. Almost a direct quote from Daniel


You need to go back and read Daniel 9 objectively without the goggles of the CoE on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t confuse "the fullness of the Gentiles" (Romans 11:25) with "the times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24), they are NOT the same:

1) THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES involves the relationship of the Gentiles to the church during this present age. God is adding to His Church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47), and primarily (though not exclusively) it is Gentiles who are being added to this body. When the full number of Gentiles comes in, then the rapture of the church will take place (the body of Christ will be complete!).

2) THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES involves the relationship of the Gentiles to the nation Israel. As it says in Luke 21:24--"Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Scofield defines this period of time as follows: "The Times of the Gentiles is that long period beginning with the Babylonian captivity of Judah, under Nebuchadnezzar, and to be brought to an end by the destruction of Gentile world-power by the ‘stone cut out without hands’ (Dan. 2:34,35,44), i.e. the coming of the Lord in glory (Rev. 19:11,21), until which time Jerusalem is politically subject to Gentile rule (Luke 21:24)."

Concerning "the fullness of the Gentiles" it is the Gentiles who are being saved and added to the church until the body of believers is completed. Concerning "the times of the Gentiles" it is the Gentiles who are ruling over Jerusalem and controlling it until the second coming of Christ. Though these two phrases sound similar they must be distinguished (often Rom. 11:25 is wrongly linked together with Luke 21:24 by cross-references found in the margins of Bibles, etc.). We must distinguish things that differ.

http://www.middletow...ns/romans11.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably a little bit of all. God starts the movement. Man turns it into a machine. Eventually Satan turns it into a monument where the birds of the air like to perch.


You are probably partly correct.

At the reformation the church was given a number of things:

1stly, the scriptures which had at that time become an unknown book Rev 10:2 and 9-10 The reformation was built on the cry was "Scripture alone."

2ndly, they were told to take up the preaching of the gospel again: Rev 10:11. Gospel preaching had died and the church was recommissioned to take up gospel preaching, Luther threw off his Roman doctorate and orders and said henceforth he would take the title of Evangelist.

3rdly. They were given a measuring rod. 11: 1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; Luther fulfilled that when he excommunicated the pope. Before that there were ones and twos in the RCC who taught salvation in Christ, but they were rooted out and burnt, some of them priests.

3½thly The reed was also the rod of authority. Without the authority of the state, the reformation would have failed in human terms. The reformers were protected by the state. Unfortunately they threw off the church ruling the state, but did not eventually throw off the state ruling the church.

(a rod in English measure is 5.5 yards. We were taught at school that a rod, also called a pole or perch was 5½ yards and that 4 R,P,or P was a chain or 22 yards. I remembered that because that is the length of a cricket pitch. The only time I have used it was when I had an allotment which was 10 rods, actually 10 square rods - 5.5 x 55 yards.) Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ark is in heaven.

Rev. 11:19- And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

My guess is that the Jews will go ahead and build another ark or that the Antichrist will "find" it someplace and give it to them.


The ark in heaven in the passage you mention is most likely speaking of the original, the one on earth was a copy of it(exodus 25:9, Hebrews 8:5 & 9:23 etc.) The earthly copy may or may not still exist somewhere, but it doesn't really matter either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ark in heaven in the passage you mention is most likely speaking of the original, the one on earth was a copy of it(exodus 25:9, Hebrews 8:5 & 9:23 etc.) The earthly copy may or may not still exist somewhere, but it doesn't really matter either way.


Good point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you believe that God still has a special place in his heart for the NATION of Israel (I'm not talking about "spiritural Jews" or "Jewish Christians" here)?
No. The special nation does comprise only believers, both Jew & Gentile. See 1 Peter 2, where Peter quotes Ex. 19. Jesus said:
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Do you believe that Israel will be restored to God as his chosen nation sometime in the future?
No. His chosen people comprise all believers who, at the resurrection will live on the NH&NE. The chosen nation is the people to whom God promised Abraham:
And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Do you believe that the promises and covena
nt
s still belong to them?

N
ot
in unbelief.


Do you believe they have a right to the land of Palestine?

No.


Do you believe that they should hand their land over to the Arabs?

No, nor should they keep seizing Arab - Christian & Muslim - lands. Nor should they persecute, dispossess & slaughter the Palestinians.


Do you believe that the
OT
promises made to Abraham and David still apply to them?

No. N
ot
while they co
nt
inue in unbelief.


Do you believe that Christ's literal and physical 1000 year reign will be upon this earth located in Israel with his capital in Jerusalem?

No, nor do I believe in a future millennium.


If n
ot
then, like most churches that came out of the Reformation and which persecuted the Jews, you do believe in Replaceme
nt
Theology. And please don't try telling me that what I listed above is what the Jesuits believe.

N
ot
"replaceme
nt
theology" as you define it. I believe God fulfilled all his promises to Israel in & through the Lord Jesus Christ. The generation that rejected him suffered his wrath in AD 70. No persecution can be justified. God is judge. The church has authority to preach the Gospel, to welcome repe
nt
a
nt
sinners & to excommunicate those who show their unbelief by their corrupt behaviour.

Then Peter said u
nt
o them, Repe
nt
, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is u
nt
o you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.


For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own cou
nt
rymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:

Who b
ot
h killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please n
ot
God, and are co
nt
rary to all men:

Forbidding us to speak to the Ge
nt
iles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway:
for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.


And no, but then I haven't studied Jesuit writings.


I believe Jesus, by his New Covena
nt
changed EVERYTHING by fulfilling the OC promises & prophecies.

Edited by Covenanter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok Here is another of my questions which was not answered.

1 What do you think of the RCC?

a. Is it a true church?
b. Is it a church that has strayed?
c. Is it the Babylonian Harlot of Revelation?
d. Other? please explain.

About 1890 John Cumming wrote an account of a meeting he hald with a RC "priest" and said that they agreed on one thing. Either Rome was the true church as she claimed and the pope was the vicar of Christ, that is vice Christ, or The RCC is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope the Antichrist. There could be no alternative. Of Course they disagreed on which.

John Henry (cardinal) Newman said something very similar.

Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok Here is another of my questions which was not answered.

1 What do you think of the RCC?

a. Is it a true church?
b. Is it a church that has strayed?
c. Is it the Babylonian Harlot of Revelation?
d. Other? please explain.

About 1890 John Cumming wrote an account of a meeting he hald with a RC "priest" and said that they agreed on one thing. Either Rome was the true church as she claimed and the pope was the vicar of Christ, that is vice Christ, or The RCC is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope the Antichrist. There could be no alternative. Of Course they disagreed on which.

John Henry (cardinal) Newman said something very similar.


Invicta,


Invicta,

The RCC recognizes Jesus as the Son of God and is a part of the church that has strayed from the truth by adding to the truth.

After the taking away of the true church by Jesus, God will cause everyone who has heard the truth of the gospel and rejected Jesus to believe the lie of the antichrist.

All of the remaining people in the Christian churches after the rapture will be part of "Harlot Babylon"

The apostate Christian church will follow the antichrist because God will send them strong delusion to believe him 2Thessalonians 2:4-12.

The ecumenical apostate Christian church will be centered in Rome, the city on seven mountains. Edited by Eric Stahl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking forward to reading a non-mangled "interpretation" of the 144,000. I assume the silence indicates approval of my reading of Scripture, or a recognition that it cannot be refuted from Scripture.

Eric confirms that the "futurists" consider that prophecy has nothing to do with the church, or anyone living in the Gospel age, but is all about some future generation in a future dispensation. The church will be "up there" enjoying a grandstand view of the tribulations below.

Come on folk - let's be practical - forget all the "Left Behind" rubbish that has nothing to do with us. We ARE living in the Gospel age, & we have the inspired Bible to teach & guide us.

Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.
Edited by Covenanter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 782 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...