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Way Of Life - The Women Who Knew Jack Hyles

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Jack Hyles is dead, but his life and testimony matters, because his influence is so pervasive even to this day. It is nearly impossible, in fact, to entirely escape his influence among fundamental Baptists. 

I am continually amazed at the pastors who defend Jack Hyles, denying that he was a moral reprobate as well as a dictatorial cult leader.  

One pastor wrote to me recently to say,

“Jack Hyles was a personal friend. I knew the man. I have listened to over 1,000 sermons on tape which he preached in his own pulpit in the 70s and early 80s. I attended at least 12 Pastors’ Schools. I sent students there and hired graduates from HAC. I have sat in his office and he in mine. In fact, he has sat at my table in my home. It is easy to sit decades later and call that ministry a cult. Were there problems, particularly in the latter years? YES. But a cult, no. Hyles certainly had enemies --  back then, more so. Many rumors and much slander developed, some of which continues to rattle around to this day. You call him a liar. That is a strong statement. I knew the man first hand. You only know about him from a distance and years later. You call him an adulterer. However, the same deacons who investigated and fired Jack Schapp also investigated the charges of adultery against Jack Hyles and exonerated him.”

The pastor continued in this vein at some length, proving himself adept at building straw men, creating smoke screens, and straining at gnats.

In light of the firsthand testimonies that have been published, this pastor is simply closing his eyes to the truth, for whatever reason. There is a gross lack of spiritual discernment at play here. 

It is a frightful fact that man’s will drives his discernment. If a man doesn’t want to believe something, he simply will not believe it. This is why the atheist doesn’t believe in God and why the devoted Roman Catholic doesn’t believe his church is apostate. But even a saved man can deceive himself. If it were not so, the Bible would not thrice warn in the New Testament Epistles, “Be not deceived.” 



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1 Samuel 8:6........they said, Give us a king to judge us.....

Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

And old man once told me that people love a religion that is controlling and oppressive. Back then, I thought he was crazy. But he was right. There are multitudes of people who are ready and willing to passionately venerate, blindly follow and gladly enslave themselves to a mere man like a King Saul, or a David Koresh.They will even die for a man like a Jim Jones rather than. live for the Good Shepherd. I just don't get it. I guess it's the same type of spirit which will enable people to gladly embrace the AntiChrist when he comes on the scene.

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QUOTE: It is a frightful fact that man’s will drives his discernment. If a man doesn’t want to believe something, he simply will not believe it. This is why the atheist doesn’t believe in God and why the devoted Roman Catholic doesn’t believe his church is apostate. But even a saved man can deceive himself. If it were not so, the Bible would not thrice warn in the New Testament Epistles, “Be not deceived.”

The opposite is also true--it is easy to believe gossip that you cannot prove when you want to believe it. This guy is showing how immature he is.

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The opposite is also true--it is easy to believe gossip that you cannot prove when you want to believe it. This guy is showing how immature he is.


I'm not sure which 'this guy' you're talking about - is it Br. Cloud? I don't believe the above article is gossip, however. The information has been gathered from various first-hand sources. I don't want to believe badly about Mr. Hyles and his son, but their record of repeated, unrepentant sin has been confirmed by various reliable sources and I really don't see how it can be denied. If it is Br. Cloud you're referring to with that jab, why do you say someone is immature for believing established facts? I do not understand.

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There are tests for what is "gossip" in the church.
(1) Did you witness the sin? (2) Was the sin told to you by the sinner? (3) Did you council the individual to take this directly to the sin perpetrator? (4) Is God glorified in the communication of the sin? (4) Who is edified by the re-communication of the sin? (5) Do you feel like discussing the sin with others or praying to God after receiving this re-communication of the sins committed?


Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

It may just be me but, I don't feel edified by the continued "re-telling" of past events in the lives of sinners.


gossip



Thesaurus.com

account, babble, back-fence talk, blather,blether, buzz*, calumny, chatter, chitchat,chronicle, clothesline, conversation, cry,defamation, dirty laundry, dirty linen, dirty wash,earful, grapevine, hearsay, idle talk, injury,malicious talk, meddling, news, prate, prattle,report, scandal, scuttlebutt, slander, small talk,story, tale, talk, whispering campaign, wire

Webster 1828
1. A sponsor; one who answers for a child in baptism; a godfather.
2. A tippling companion.
And sometimes lurk I in a gossip's bowl.
3. One who runs from house to house, tattling and telling news; an idle tattler. [This is the sense in which the word is now used.]
4. A friend or neighbor.
5. Mere tattle; idle talk.
GOS'SIP, v.i. To prate; to chat; to talk much.
1. To be a pot-companion.
2. To run about and tattle; to tell idle tales.




Is Bro. Cloud driving the Bible to the forefront? Some may say yes and some may say no. Or, is Bro. Cloud driving the sinners into the ground? Again, some may answer yes or no. I think the important point we need to drive home from the sin in these men's lives is...Romans 3:23.

Bro. Cloud received some letters from some who didn't jump out there and hang the dead corpse of Hyles and pursue and stone Jack Schapp. Personally, I believe it has gone beyond edifying and overdue a conclusion. If there is any wisdom here then praise God.

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I'm not sure which 'this guy' you're talking about - is it Br. Cloud? I don't believe the above article is gossip, however. The information has been gathered from various first-hand sources. I don't want to believe badly about Mr. Hyles and his son, but their record of repeated, unrepentant sin has been confirmed by various reliable sources and I really don't see how it can be denied. If it is Br. Cloud you're referring to with that jab, why do you say someone is immature for believing established facts? I do not understand.


Yes, I referred to Bro. Cloud. I have repeatedly said we need to "let dead dogs lie" (not in those words, of course). The "firsthand" information from "reliable sources" is in question too. Those sources obviously received their info from other "reliable sources, and so on it goes. I do not defend bro. Schaap in any way or form, but nothing has been proven about Dr. Hyles, except that he has been the target of slander and mud-slinging even worse that that of the Democratic Party!

Bro. Cloud seems to be bent on destroying Dr. Hyles when he has no one else to pick on. I don't know if it is a personal vendetta, or just foolishness on his part, but it looks as though when there is nothing else for him to rant on, he comes back to the old stand-by, and bashes Dr. Hyles. It looks quite immature to me.


One more thing, what does this have to do with the title of this topic? Nothing here about the women who knew Jack Hyles. Edited by irishman

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I would say that Brother Cloud loves God, and is dismayed at the horrible goings on under the name and guise of Fundamental Baptist churches.

Jude 1 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Any man can profess and proclaim Jesus and Him crucified and at the very same time deny the Lord Jesus by his works. The Bible says to try the spirits. One who willfully teaches false doctrine has an evil spirit and ungodly, blasphemous stuff like "spiritual intercourse" is false doctrine.
18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.

Edited by heartstrings

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I would say that Brother Cloud loves God, and is dismayed at the horrible goings on under the name and guise of Fundamental Baptist churches.

Jude 1 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Any man can profess and proclaim Jesus and Him crucified and at the very same time deny the Lord Jesus by his works. The Bible says to try the spirits. One who willfully teaches false doctrine has an evil spirit and ungodly, blasphemous stuff like "spiritual intercourse" is false doctrine.
18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.




You still don't get it do you?

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Way of Life is partly a warning ministry. Hyles is still influencing Christians through his false teachings. Brother Cloud is letting us know that this man was an unrepentant sinner during the times in question and therefore Christians should be very careful as to what his ministry put out whether it be his books, methods on soul-winning or sermons. Many churches hold him in the same esteem as John R Rice and Spurgeon.

Quick-Prayerism has led to many hundred of thousands of people believing that they are saved when they are not, including children as a result of his ministry. What does Christ say about those who offend the little ones?

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I believe Mr. Hyles still has strong influence. I remember an acticle in a recent issue of the Sword of the Lord about a pastors conference where all who registered in advance (or something like that) would receive a copy of Mr. Hyles' ordination certificate. Is this not man-worship?

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To own a copy of a mans ordination certificate is his own business, I don't see any "worshiping" there. I desire copies of certificates from family and friends (certain ones) to remember them or to merely think of how much they had changed my life. Ids that "worship". You people have a real problem.

As for "way of Life" I understand him attempting to warn folks, but warn, and warn, and warn, and having a bad spirit as he does it? He ought to weep when when he warns, instead of gloat in it. I do not believe that there is such a ministry anyway, that is dealt with from the pulpit.

I once knew a fellow that thought the Lord gave him a "drawing" ministry, and he went around charging people for portraits, he was Pentacostal (Church of God); seems they are the ones' that are "chosen" for these off-the-wall ministries. Bro. Cloud would fit right in with them.

NONE OF THE ACCUSATIONS HAVE BEEN PROVEN! Did I yell? Maybe no one heard it the several other times I said it!
Every great leader (and Dr. Hyles was just that) has had major criticism, perhaps that is part of the persecution the Lord warns us of. J. Frank Norris was verbally castigated many times, as well as Billy Sunday, and many others, maybe even Spurgeon, "the prince of preachers" (oops, sounds like "hero worship" again!) Most of you who condemn Dr. Hyles couldn't hold a candle to him personally and definitely not in your piddly old ministries.

Have a good roast anyway.

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(I've not looked at the links but since this is related to the topic I thought I would post it and let those interested decide for themselves.)


AFTER NEARLY A QUARTER CENTURY, OUR

DR. HYLES STORY IS VINDICATED!


In May of 1989 we wrote the first exposé of Dr. Jack Hyles; in August we wrote the second one, far more thorough and devastating because more people came forward and we had a lot more facts and documented proof. (You can read about it here: http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_story.php) We were commended by some and denounced by others, but the ferociousness from Hammond was something else. Our life was threatened and we were warned of beatings – in addition to being called names I didn’t know had been invented.
We took it all, knowing we were right and that if the truth wasn’t revealed before, it would all come out at the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Bema Seat. Well, after my 90th birthday the dear Lord decided to provide the “smoking gun” that would vindicate me. Actually, it was made public last April, but no one much knew about it. Three days after my birthday, a relative on the one hand and an attorney on the other, both separately and without knowledge of the other, sent me the information.
The vindication came in the form of Dr. Hyles’ daughter, Linda Hyles Murphrey, testimony that had been made only on line. Even though it had been filmed last April there had barely been 300 hits on what was published. It happened on TEDxOjaiChange and she was the speaker for that day. Introduced by Darina Stoyanova (TEDxOjai organizer), we were told Murphrey, for the first time publicly, was revealing “the secret life she was forced to live as the daughter of the former leader of an Indiana mega-church turned cult.”
Linda now, we were told, is an“inspirational speaker, business owner, Certified Personal and Professional Development Coach, Practitioner of Neuro-Linguistic Programming and student of interpersonal dynamics.” We learned she “grew up watching her father convert most of the congregation into complete obedience and loyalty to him. She tells how she left the organization and chose her own path separate from the mind control, idolatry and hypocrisy – choosing freedom.”
While details like names were not given, no one who knew the facts doubted for a minute that she was referring to Dr. Jack Hyles, his ministry at the First Baptist Church in Hammond, her mother, her brother David, and Hyles’ employee, Mrs. Jennie Nischik. It was not necessary to be a rocket scientist to know that; it all came through loud and clear.
This, by the way, was recorded before the latest First Baptist Hammond scandal broke. The latter is especially sad since, if they had listened to Vic Nischik, Voyle Glover, me, and all the others who quoted us 23 years ago – and cleaned house then – there is a good chance this latest fiasco with son-in-law Jack Schaap could have been avoided.
We do not enjoy rehashing this, but we are very happy to be vindicated.
When we saw Linda’s video it only had about 300 hits on it, but in days it went to at least 17,000 and that is when it was blocked it to the public and was no longer available. However, after being unavailable for a time, it is now back up and running. You can view it from this link: www.tinyurl.com/hylesdaughter
We may quote excerpts from time to time as needed.
When Linda’s testimony was blocked, Voyle Glover put up a letter to Jack Schaaf he had written to him years ago that could have prevented the latest tragedy had he listened. He wrote an interesting ‘preventive warning’ to him that, alas, went unheeded. Here is a link, if you are interested: http://brevia.com/warning-letter-in-1993-to-jack-schaap-and-first-baptist-church-of-hammond-indiana.
From a different slant, Dr. Jim Binney filled in on a Wednesday night at 1st Baptist in August. I took time to listen to the entire message (while doing other things – I don't have the kind of time to listen otherwise). He said a lot that needed to be said, contradicting much of the message from that pulpit for the past third of a century. I only hope someone pays attention this time. One thing I disagreed strongly with (or maybe he just didn't make clear) related to ‘restoration to service.’ He implied Schaap could eventually be back in a pulpit. He said if you didn’t agree you didn’t believe in forgiveness, or grace. I believe in both, but Schaap and others like him no longer meet the qualifications for preachers found in the epistles!

Dr. Robert L. Sumner, Editor
THE BIBLICAL EVANGELIST
134 Salisbury Circle
Lynchburg,VA 24502-5056
(434) 237-0132

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I'm no Jack Hyles fan and never have been; however, the last I had heard Jack Hyles is dead, is that correct?

I don't see how anyone could have missed all the news articles and internet discussion bringing Jack Hyles' ministry into public condemnation. I certainly don't believe there is anyone on this board who needs further re- re- re-dissemination of his human frailty and sins.

If Hyles is dead then I see no reason for anyone to bring him up from the dead through human effort. The initial outcry from the secular community has cooled off; he couldn't be anymore physically dead, why would Christians continue to crucify him? Don't we have one who will judge Jack Hyles?

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I'm no Jack Hyles fan and never have been; however, the last I had heard Jack Hyles is dead, is that correct?

I don't see how anyone could have missed all the news articles and internet discussion bringing Jack Hyles' ministry into public condemnation. I certainly don't believe there is anyone on this board who needs further re- re- re-dissemination of his human frailty and sins.

If Hyles is dead then I see no reason for anyone to bring him up from the dead through human effort. The initial outcry from the secular community has cooled off; he couldn't be anymore physically dead, why would Christians continue to crucify him? Don't we have one who will judge Jack Hyles?

I believe the reason it needs repeating (but not continual repeating back-to-back) is because of what Cubfan posted:

"I believe Mr. Hyles still has strong influence. I remember an acticle in a recent issue of the Sword of the Lord about a pastors conference where all who registered in advance (or something like that) would receive a copy of Mr. Hyles' ordination certificate. Is this not man-worship?"

I don't know much about Hyles but I do know there are some who hold this man up as near perfect and they push the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" sort of "witnessing" which produces many false converts, giving untold thousands a false hope.

John Calvin has been dead for something like 500 years and much of what has his name tagged to it has little to do with his actual teaching or practice, and most who even carry a tag with his name attached to it know little or nothing about him and yet there are constant repeated articles, sermons, books and such about him.

Those who trash others, whether Hyles, Calvin or another, I disagree with such an approach. Those who actually put forth the truth in an effort to enlighten others is a good thing.

Referring specifically to Cloud, he does seem to get on one or two themes and hit them over and over again all at once, back-to-back, which seems too much. Why do we need a half dozen stories a month about Hyles or CCM or whatever? If there is something important to say about one of those then say it and move on. If there is a need to come back to it later, fine, but no need to repeat the same thing so often.

I don't know enough about Hyles to comment on anything other than the promotion of the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" unbiblical stuff which is an extremely dangerous practice that needs to be dealt with.

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I believe the reason it needs repeating (but not continual repeating back-to-back) is because of what Cubfan posted:

"I believe Mr. Hyles still has strong influence. I remember an acticle in a recent issue of the Sword of the Lord about a pastors conference where all who registered in advance (or something like that) would receive a copy of Mr. Hyles' ordination certificate. Is this not man-worship?"

I don't know much about Hyles but I do know there are some who hold this man up as near perfect and they push the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" sort of "witnessing" which produces many false converts, giving untold thousands a false hope.

John Calvin has been dead for something like 500 years and much of what has his name tagged to it has little to do with his actual teaching or practice, and most who even carry a tag with his name attached to it know little or nothing about him and yet there are constant repeated articles, sermons, books and such about him.

Those who trash others, whether Hyles, Calvin or another, I disagree with such an approach. Those who actually put forth the truth in an effort to enlighten others is a good thing.

Referring specifically to Cloud, he does seem to get on one or two themes and hit them over and over again all at once, back-to-back, which seems too much. Why do we need a half dozen stories a month about Hyles or CCM or whatever? If there is something important to say about one of those then say it and move on. If there is a need to come back to it later, fine, but no need to repeat the same thing so often.

I don't know enough about Hyles to comment on anything other than the promotion of the "1, 2, 3, pray after me" unbiblical stuff which is an extremely dangerous practice that needs to be dealt with.



I will say this, as far as I know, (and I know a lot about it, even sat in a class about soul winning that one of the teachers taught) Dr. Hyles himself did not do the 1, 2, 3, pray with me thing. You do not approach a stranger, and ask them to pray immediately when they answer the door! That is ridicules. There is an introduction, and a build up, with the scriptures. In other woeds, this 1,2,3 pray with me, as so many call it, is fuel for the trashing of the entire staff and teaching of Hyles. Someone made it up, and ran with it.

By re way, Sumner was on staff at FBC at one time, but he became disgruntled, and began his own personal vendetta. He was instrumental in the rumor of Dr. Hyles and his supposed affair. I am amazed that people believe that a man of prominence, in public as well as privately would be able to mask his charade for so many years. Now that he isn't here any more, everyone is free to say whatever they want, and the only thing they have to substantiate it is the word of those that were fired, or left with bad feelings from the ministry.

Any way, this thread has gone far enough as far as I am concerned, I will leave it to the scavengers who love a good scandal.

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Way of Life is partly a warning ministry. Hyles is still influencing Christians through his false teachings. Brother Cloud is letting us know that this man was an unrepentant sinner during the times in question and therefore Christians should be very careful as to what his ministry put out whether it be his books, methods on soul-winning or sermons. Many churches hold him in the same esteem as John R Rice and Spurgeon.

Quick-Prayerism has led to many hundred of thousands of people believing that they are saved when they are not, including children as a result of his ministry. What does Christ say about those who offend the little ones?




What is a "warning ministry"? Is it some ministry the Holy Spirit gave to bro. Cloud (an appropriate name!)? If so, why so many others adding their 2 cents when it is not given to them to do so?

Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I wonder if Bro Cloud is exempt from these verses? Or anyone else for that matter.

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Somebody should have set Paul straight on this, I suppose.

Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 15Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. Timothy 4:14-15


But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.......
..........when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all.........Galatians 2:11-14

...Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some have put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme1 Timothy 18-20

....... And their word will eat as doth as canker. of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; who concerning the truth have erred, 2 Timothy 2:15

Then you have Moses and Jude who named Balaam and John who warned about Diotrephes

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This is not a "1-2-3 repeat after me" this is a witnessing course and has 34 steps. It is authored by Jack Hyles for personal evangelism and follow-up discipleship of converts. This debunks a lot of gossip above. It sounds to me like Hyles promoted a very thorough intercourse with the lost specifically to prevent "false conversion." I'm still no Jack Hyles fan, for other reasons. I'm also not going to throw rocks at the dead.

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Like I said I've listened to tons of Jack Hyles sermons on tape when I was first saved and I found much of them a great help. I've used his soulwinning methods and seen one Evangelist use it to great success. He simple methods for evangelism are good for those of us who are simple.

I also know a lot of the original rumors and evil gossip about Hyles was never proved, or has been disproved, started with Robert Sumner and his paper the Biblical Muckraker because he was mad Hyles didn't want him to be the editor of the Sword of the Lord.

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Somebody should have set Paul straight on this, I suppose.

Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 15Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. Timothy 4:14-15


But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.......
..........when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all.........Galatians 2:11-14

...Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some have put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme1 Timothy 18-20

....... And their word will eat as doth as canker. of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; who concerning the truth have erred, 2 Timothy 2:15

Then you have Moses and Jude who named Balaam and John who warned about Diotrephes

so , Mr. Cloud is a "Paul"?
S

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