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1John2:15-17

Hammond Pastor Dismissed For ‘Improper Relationship With Young Woman’

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Most of the time in such situations the pastor just moves to a new area where he is not known, but with him that would be difficult, yet I suspect there's a church out there that would accept him as pastor feeling he would be a draw to gain members & grow.


I doubt it. He's finished. No church that knows anything about him will trust him to pastor their church. Next he may be after the 12 year old kids. And I doubt he'll take a small unknown church somewhere who don't know anything about him because he's so used to the big time. I don't think he could handle the abasement. Not that he can never do anything for God again. There are street missions and other areas of ministry but I see him getting completely out of the race and getting a regular job somewhere. Edited by Wilchbla

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Most of the time in such situations the pastor just moves to a new area where he is not known, but with him that would be difficult, yet I suspect there's a church out there that would accept him as pastor feeling he would be a draw to gain members & grow.


That seems to happen a lot, but it should not. A church should get a recommendation from his former church, and they should give and honest appraisal. Unfortunately, one or the other does not always happen.

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That seems to happen a lot, but it should not. A church should get a recommendation from his former church, and they should give and honest appraisal. Unfortunately, one or the other does not always happen.


Yes, it happens a lot, the man & woman that took me out of an orphan home, I was just over 4 years of age, he committed adultery with a woman in his church he was pastor of, got fired, left us, me & his wife there in the parsonage & left the state.

After a time he called his wife & told her to get rid of me & he would come back & get her. This was done. He retired as a Baptist pastor in his late 60's.

He told his older son that he did what was best for me, not fully explaining things, somehow keeping everything secret from his son, or it seemed it was a secret.

We humans sure are sorry & will do many different wicked things.

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Having some personal knowledge of this issue, the FBI are involved because of crossing state lines.

This is a very sad day indeed. Pastor's are men, and when we put these men on pedestals, they will fall. It it good to respect and look up to godly men, be careful of idolizing them. God, only, is to have that place of exaltation in our life.

Please pray for the family, and the church, I'm sure this hurts more than we realize. Also, pray for the youth (about 5000) who just attended the annual youth conference there.

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Having some personal knowledge of this issue, the FBI are involved because of crossing state lines.

This is a very sad day indeed. Pastor's are men, and when we put these men on pedestals, they will fall. It it good to respect and look up to godly men, be careful of idolizing them. God, only, is to have that place of exaltation in our life.

Please pray for the family, and the church, I'm sure this hurts more than we realize. Also, pray for the youth (about 5000) who just attended the annual youth conference there.


Your 100%correct, the young girl involved & her family needs prayers, & kindness. Its so sad that a pastor would take this type of advantage of such a young woman. I can't imagine how much this has messed up her life.

Hammond Megachurch Leader Removed From Pulpit As Authorities Investigate His Relationship With Teenage Girl

"According to the Times of Northwest Indiana, Schaap admitted to having an extramarital affair with a member of his 15,000-strong congregation. Lake County (Ind.) Sheriff’s authorities and the FBI are trying to determine if the female in question was 16 at the time Schaap initiated the relationship. Times of Northwest Indiana columnist Mark Kiesling reports that the girl was transported to a Cook County Forest Preserve and Michigan for interludes with Schaap, which would explain the FBI's involvement. Lake County Sheriff John Buncich said the investigation involves the church and Hyles-Anderson College, which it operates."

"Schaap has often been criticized for his misogynistic and sexist approach to Christianity. His teachings and writings have consistently referred to a relationship with God in a sexual context, with God being the male in the relationship and man the female in a “spiritual intercourse.” He’s also preached that God said that men must be the dominant partner in a marriage."

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http://posttrib.sunt...rch-leader.html

The above link is to an enlightening article about the timeline of events: It is dated August 1, 2012. Here is a quote from that article:

A shaken, soft-spoken Deacon Terry Duff, who chairs the church’s Board of Deacons, vowed during a news conference held at the church’s administration building Wednesday that the church is cooperating with all authorities and refuses to cover up any wrongdoing.

“We’re not defending wrong; we’re defending right,” Duff said. “We’re committed to finding the whole truth no matter what the consequences to First Baptist Church.”

Duff said he was made aware of the misconduct last Wednesday, though he later said it was last Monday, and, after two or three meetings with the board, confronted Schaap, 54, Saturday afternoon. He declined to go into the conversation between them but said Schaap was relieved of all duties, including his chancellorship of Hyles-Anderson College and as church pastor. (emphasis is mine)


So, this begs 2 questions:

1. Who preach at First Baptist Church on Sunday, July 29th (was it Jack Schaap or someone else?)

2. Why did the deacons wait until Wednesday, August 1st to inform the congregation of Jack Schaap's sinful behavior and his dismissal?

Many people are praising the deacons for their quick action in this case. I am wondering if they were hesitating and hoping it would blow away.

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http://posttrib.sunt...rch-leader.html

The above link is to an enlightening article about the timeline of events: It is dated August 1, 2012. Here is a quote from that article:



So, this begs 2 questions:

1. Who preach at First Baptist Church on Sunday, July 29th (was it Jack Schaap or someone else?)

2. Why did the deacons wait until Wednesday, August 1st to inform the congregation of Jack Schaap's sinful behavior and his dismissal?

Many people are praising the deacons for their quick action in this case. I am wondering if they were hesitating and hoping it would blow away.


I disagree 100% with the way they run things. With that said, I would suppose they waited till that time because they had not decided what action to take. And perhaps in that time they were trying to decided whether to cover up or go public with it.


All I can say is WOW, after reading what is supposed to be part of a sermon of his. From it & other teachings by Mr. Schaap, he has been out of step for quite some time.

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Members of Church speak to the congregation...

https://www.youtube....player_embedded


This won't be enough to satisfy some people. Nothing short of burning the church down will make some of the brethren happy.

By the way, David Gibbs sent one of his attorneys from CLA to defend a Christian camp I worked at against the State of Pennsylvania when they demanded a list of all the people who supported the camp financially. CLA is a good group of people. Edited by Wilchbla

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Pastor says entire Church staff should be dismissed.

In light of what Schaap was preaching behind the pulpit and writing in his books, I agree. The whole Church staff should be rebuked and dismissed.

Schaap's sermons had sexual connotations over and over. It is obvious the man had a problem with lust and it was only a matter of time before speech became a reality.

The last part of Matthew 12:34 states: ...out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.

How true that is.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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2. Why did the deacons wait until Wednesday, August 1st to inform the congregation of Jack Schaap's sinful behavior and his dismissal?

Many people are praising the deacons for their quick action in this case. I am wondering if they were hesitating and hoping it would blow away.


I just have to insert here: they didn't fire him until someone outside the church called the police. The deacons did not call. They knew about it the week before they fired him. Mayhap they planned to fire him all along, but who knows.

We don't want to see the church close its doors. But we do want to see if purified, and God glorified. We hope that JSchaap repents. We hope that his marriage can be restored (but I can't believe that Cindy, who grew up with this type of thing from her father, didn't see that something smarmy was going on). We hope that his kids get through this and don't lose their faith (it does happen, because kids look up to their dads - even when they are adults).

But you know what's been missing from all of the tidbits put out by the church? Mention of prayer for the victim. She was 17 (possibly 16 when it started). She had gone to him for counselling about being sexually abused. Ironic and horribly sad. The FBI are investigating because she was likely taken over state lines - to two different states. That makes it a federal offense, because the federal age of consent is 18. Lake Co. sheriffs are still investigating, too...so there are things we don't know about yet. I highly doubt that the FBI and the Co. sheriff are simply on a vendetta. There's fire there, where there's been smoke for so long...

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"The former minister of a Northwest Indiana megachurch plans to plead guilty to transporting a minor across state lines for sexual activity.

Jack Schaap, formerly of First Baptist Church of Hammond, said in a statement he was making the plea to spare the teen girl and his own family the trauma of a long legal battle." Full story

I would think that likely with him doing this the evidence is stacked against him with him & his attorney thinking of a lighter sentence by taking a plea deal, yet its possible that he is taking responsibility. I hope its the latter.

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I just have to insert here: they didn't fire him until someone outside the church called the police. The deacons did not call. They knew about it the week before they fired him. Mayhap they planned to fire him all along, but who knows.

We don't want to see the church close its doors. But we do want to see if purified, and God glorified. We hope that JSchaap repents. We hope that his marriage can be restored (but I can't believe that Cindy, who grew up with this type of thing from her father, didn't see that something smarmy was going on). We hope that his kids get through this and don't lose their faith (it does happen, because kids look up to their dads - even when they are adults).

But you know what's been missing from all of the tidbits put out by the church? Mention of prayer for the victim. She was 17 (possibly 16 when it started). She had gone to him for counselling about being sexually abused. Ironic and horribly sad. The FBI are investigating because she was likely taken over state lines - to two different states. That makes it a federal offense, because the federal age of consent is 18. Lake Co. sheriffs are still investigating, too...so there are things we don't know about yet. I highly doubt that the FBI and the Co. sheriff are simply on a vendetta. There's fire there, where there's been smoke for so long...


Where you there Happy? I am disappointed in a lady of your stature smearing the name of Dr. Hyles. I know you went to the girls meetings when you attended HAC, and you saw first hand how much Dr. Hyles loved his people, but OPENLY and publicly! He had nothing to hide.

Were you there when he gave many gifts to the girls? were you there when they wept together with him on the platform, and them in the seats? Were you there when he had said affair? Do you know Mrs. Nitchke personally, and did she admit to anything?

Have you read "The Fundamentasl Man" that Cindy wrote, with absolutely no mention of said goings on? She missed a great opportunity to expose the whole thing if it were true. I suggest you shut up, and mind your own business which is not expressing your feelings about some bitterness you obviously have for HAC.

Have a good day.

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un "happychristian"

I will probably be censored, or banned for my last post, since you have the advantage there, but I do wonder if the Lord is pleased with your attitude, and the attitudes of others who seek to smear great men.

I wonder too, if you have anything you would like made public about your life? If so, feel free to post and see the other side of the onslaught! Thank you for your time, your holiness.

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I suggest you shut up, and mind your own business which is not expressing your feelings about some bitterness you obviously have for HAC.


You are the one who sounds bitter (especially since you are replying to a post that is a month and a half old).

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I have never known Happy to be anything but gracious and patient in her dealings with people here - or in her posts regarding others. She is an excellent example of godly womanhood. IMO, she has not been either rude or had a wrong attitude in her dealings on this issue. Irishman, you are being unconscionably rude.

If you can't allow a thread you don't like to continue without interference, fine. I really don't feel a need to continue any argument about Mr. Hyles. But I could not allow you to besmear such a fine woman simply for disagreeing with you!

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Irishman,

Just because you are a blind worshipper of the Hyles Cult, don't come on here and tell someone to shut up.

Hyles was a cult leader and a false teacher. His son-in-law is also a false teacher.

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Irishman,

Just because you are a blind worshipper of the Hyles Cult, don't come on here and tell someone to shut up.

Hyles was a cult leader and a false teacher. His son-in-law is also a false teacher.



for you to call me a "Hyles worshiper" is ridicules, since you apparently have no idea what worship is. YOU claim he was a cult leader, but there are many others who have a much better discernment. You have constantly made that claim here, and I have no regard whatsoever for your opinion in the matter. I will say though that if someone spreads some trash about you here, I will readily believe it, since you seem to like to do it yourself. Maybe your a terrorist, what if that rumor got around? It would be hard to live it down, unless you died, then we could say whatever we wanted, and you could not refute it!

You don't know but that the Lord has appointed me to reveal unchristian like attitudes here, do you?



You are the one who sounds bitter (especially since you are replying to a post that is a month and a half old).


Mr Smith, I have nothing to be bitter about, the right word would be frustration, not bitterness. Go back and read my posts in this thread, and other similar threads, and you may see why, if your eyes are open.

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Irishman,

Just because you are a blind worshipper of the Hyles Cult, don't come on here and tell someone to shut up.

Hyles was a cult leader and a false teacher. His son-in-law is also a false teacher.


Are you serious?

Where's John when we need him.

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Irishman,
Your attack on other people who are critical of that ministry is unchristlike also

Here are the facts
1. Jack Hyles demanded worship from the student in HAC every time they went to chapel with the opening chant.
2. Jack Hyles taught and promoted "easy-believism", though you and others deny it. Thousands have gone to hell because of their false assurance in a prayer.
3. Preachers and their people all over the country worship Jack Hyles to the point when it was proven he was an adulterer, he stayed in his pastorate and His followers still were behind him.
4. Mr. Schaap - Wrote a number of books that were doctrinally incorrect. The biggest one was where he said that salvation was equivilent to having intercourse with God. Though there was an outrage amongst Fundamental churches, once again, the Hyles worshippers and their blind allegiance followed Schaap.

I could go on and list the doctrinal errors found throughout Hyles' books, but it would take far too long to do it in this thread.

These things have been pointed out to you many times and you refuse to hear the truth. That is what a cult will do.

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1. Dr. Hyles did not "demand" the chants, they began doing that to show their love for him.
2. Nothing is easier than believing. You try to add to salvation by saying it takes more than that. Who is the cult here?
3. He was never "proven" and adulterer, except in the minds of those who were looking for something to topple him.
4. I do not defend Schaap at all, except that YOU too are capable pf such a crime. You think not?

As for errors in Dr. Hyles' books, that is a matter of approach. You already have your mind made up. so that wouls slant your reading of them. Illustrations, etc., can easily be mis-interpreted. I think you know what you are doing, but have an alterior motive, or have been influenced by someone else that you respect. That is usually the case in such unfounded criticism.

btw I never saw anyone bow to him, or fall prostrate in the floor in front of him, and I don't believe anyone has. Your distorted interpretation of "worship" needs to be examined.

Edited by irishman

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This is so sad, it's almost laughable. I don't have any bitterness whatsoever towards JH or even JS. I do know people whose lives have been ruined by them. Yep - I know 'em personally, and I know why the lives were ruined. It doesn't make me bitter - it makes me very sad. As I listen to people weep - still today - over things.

Irishman, I am not an unhappy Christian, nor, again, am I bitter towards anything to do with HAC or the church, etc. You have shown yourself in your comments, sadly. As to my "shutting up" - you have no right to order me to do so, because this is a public forum, and we ALL have our opinions. If you don't like what someone is saying to the point of calling them names or telling them to shut up, mayhap you should stay out of the threads you know will cause you angst.

I am locking this thread. Not because it causes division - if that were a reason, there'd be a whole lot less to talk about on this forum! :biggrin: I'm locking it because it's gone from a discussion to hateful comments towards other posters on the part of one. THAT is not edifying, either.

And, FWIW, NO MAN is great. Only God is. But we have been conditioned (and like it or not, it spread from Hammond) to believe that MEN are great. Sorry. Men can be used by a great God, and GOD's work can be great. But never man's. We've (and I mean American Christians here) got a terrible case of spiritual dyslexia...

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