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Who Is Your Favorite Pastor Among John Piper, John Macarthur, Max Lucado, Joshua Harris, Aiden Tozer, And Charles Spurgeon. Why?


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I recall the story of the saloon owner that got saved. I can’t remember the story perfectly, but it went something like this. He was taking all the liquor out in the street, pouring it out. One Christians stopped him, saying, “Why pour it out, sell it, & you can put the money to good use.”

The newly saved saloon owner stated, “I could never do that, that would be like selling out my Savior.”

Anyway, who wants to profit from sin? Surely not a child of God.


I stupidly did that once. My wife and I were never "drinkers" but over the years we had amassed a collection of booze that we didn't drink. Once the Lord showed us it was sin and we accepted that truth, I foolishly gave it all to a friend of ours. I immediately wrote an apology and said friend went ballistic and was very upset with me for saying that drinking alcohol is a sin while rejecting all of the 70 passages of Scripture I sent along with the letter. Now, during those 3 years awash in the error of the emergent church, I have a large amount of books from all manner of heretics waiting for a cold winter night to kindle the fires with! Won't make that mistake again!
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​I looked over the link, and it's obvious that this is a pro-MacArthur writing...and the writer goes on to lump anyone who proliferates the fact that MacArthur downplays the blood of Christ as a "mili

MacArthur is one to be greatly wary of. He has many teachings which are simply not biblical. And he looks way to much like Chevy Chase to be trusted...........

The problem with Calvinism is that the idea of limited atonement spreads through the rest of the doctrines. For example, Calvinism would say that because atonement is limited (i.e.:God only died for

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I recall the story of the saloon owner that got saved. I can’t remember the story perfectly, but it went something like this. He was taking all the liquor out in the street, pouring it out. One Christians stopped him, saying, “Why pour it out, sell it, & you can put the money to good use.”

The newly saved saloon owner stated, “I could never do that, that would be like selling out my Savior.”

Anyway, who wants to profit from sin? Surely not a child of God.

That's one of the signs a person is truly born again in Christ, they are new creatures in Christ and their lives and actions will show this.

One thing I enjoy when reading about Billy Sunday is how many saloon keepers, prostitutes and the like were born again in Christ and immediately their lives were changed. They closed down their saloons and brothels and no longer walked in these sins. They didn't keep living in these sinful things until they could find another job, or until they made enough money to do something else, their repentance was genuine, they were truly born again, they were new creatures in Christ and their lives immediately reflected this.
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And now days many professing Christians, even Baptist, will go into the drinking selling business trying to make money. It seems most feel the life they live is completely different & separate to what is taught in church. That is a job pays good money, no matter what it is, its right for the professing Christian.

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Well, Piper is calvinist yes, but his sermons may be hard to understand or maybe it's just me. But his books are okay. I have not read all of them though. Max Lucado is very dangerous. Very. I mean, they may mean well, but false teachers not only deceive others, they are deceived themselves. He is in the same road with RIck Warren and Bill Hybels with the emergent church idea...

John McCarthur has some books that I think are biblical, but yes, since he does not believe that the blood saves us, we may have to be on our guard with this one. It is written that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Why?

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

So, if he refuses to believe that, he refuses to believe the Bible.

Joshua Harris is like a psychologist, Hehehe. But I have his book I kissed dating goodbye. I have not read it though..

Tozer is good. At least his 'Attributes of God' books are biblical.

Spurgeon' sermons are okay. Not very much attuned to listening to him anyways.

Matt chandler is also a calvinist, but his sermons are good. So far I have not found any unbiblical interpretations.

I listen to Paul Washer too. I don't think he is heretic like people claim that he is. I even think I share the gospel similar to how he does.. Start with depravity. ending with the glorious hope in Christ.

I have two books of Jerry Bridges, are they good?

:) Grace to all.

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By the way... Seems like everyone is all against calvinistic principles.. I tried to check what a calvinist really stand firm for and I quite think I agree to it 80%... I do not believe in free will. :) I mean, it is hard to believe, but yes. Jeremiah 10:23-24
So there's the total depravity and Unconditional Grace/ atonement

But, as with the limited atonement, that is where I do not agree. Christ died for the sins of the WORLD. Not just the believers.
That is where the parable comes in! Matthew 13:44 In order to get the people He chose for Himself, which is the ''treasure''
He bought the entire field!

For the arminians belittle the sovereignty of God..

What about calvinism do you think are unbiblical?

Thanks..

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The problem with Calvinism is that the idea of limited atonement spreads through the rest of the doctrines. For example, Calvinism would say that because atonement is limited (i.e.:God only died for the elect), therefore His grace, when extended is irresistible. It would claim Perseverance of the Saints (which is not the same as Eternal Security) because since man couldn't pick to get saved, he certainly can't pick to get unsaved! "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Because of this overlapping of doctrine, I really don't think people can be 'partial' Calvinists. You either are or you ain't. :)

You're right, the doctrine of limited atonement is false. And such a blasphemy to our Lord who died for the sins of the world! (John 3:16) Take a look at the second half of that verse. What does it say? "that whosoever believeth in Him..." Whosover! Not some predetermined elect! Rev. 22:17 says "whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.'" There's that whosoever again! But what comes after it? Whosoever will. That Will there refers to the choice man has to accept or reject Christ. Luke 13 speaks of Christ mourning over Jerusalem, saying that He would gladly have gathered her children together to Him, but they would not! That will to accept or reject is free will. Jeremiah 10:23-24 is referring to the fact that man does not have the wisdom to choose and direct his own way - and choose it right! He needs the Lord's leading and guidance. It is not referring to salvation.

Because man has a free will, therefore Calvinism falls apart. Man is depraved, yes, but he is not so Totally Depraved (as Calvinism would teach) that he cannot even choose Christ when God calls him. Unconditional Election is the idea that, based on Christ supposedly only dying for the sins of the elect, God has pre-picked the elect. There is no unconditional grace in Calvinism! UE is again Biblically false - if God picked some for hell, then why does He say that He "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance"? (2 Pet. 3:9) It would be very double-minded of God for Him to say that He doesn't want any to perish, but then to personally choose - to create! - men for that very purpose! Frankly, a god that created men only to destroy them would be a horrible god. Our God is not such. Ezekiel 33:11 tells us that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but desires them to turn from their wicked ways and live. He is calling them to turn! Where is this Unconditional Election here? Limited atonement, as you've already pointed out, is a direct contradiction of Christ's once-for-all atonement. Irresistible Grace cannot exist while man resists God. Ezekiel 33:11/2 Peter 3:9 again - we see here clearly that God clearly wants all to come to salvation - well, if man could not resist God's grace, why aren't they all saved? And the final point, Perseverance of the Saints, we see to be a corruption based on the other false TULIP doctrines. Once saved, always saved, yes - but not once saved because God picked us to go to heaven and we had no say in it and therefore always saved because we can't have a say against it.

Calvinism is an insidious doctrine that oh-so-subtly twists the pure Word of God. We have a nearby church that is being infiltrated by it, and it does seem from our observation of the church and various friends within it that no one ever learns Calvinism from the Bible! It has to be taught by hearing men and reading man's books. That's why it's so dangerous to listen to men like Paul Washer or John Piper - you might plan on chewing the meat and spitting out the bones, but are you sure you can always tell what the bones are? The Bible tells us to "mark them which cause divisions contrary to the faith (i.e. false doctrine) and avoid them". We are to separate ourselves from learning or reading their false doctrine lest it rub off on us!

BTW, one does not have to be either Calvinist or Armenian. Both are unbiblical. My pastor likes to say he's a Biblicist! ;)

Edited by salyan
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salyan, Its so sad, it seem most who have had their mind poisoned by the heresy teaching of the TULIP doctrine can hardly ever see, understand the many plain teaching Scriptures that teaching violates.

And you have a godly pastor saying that he is a Biblicist.

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Calvin did some good things in his time but even he, like most of the theologians during his day, still had a lot of Catholicism in their blood. The RCC ruled the landscape for 1000 years until this time. You don't just snap out of it over night. It takes time to rediscover the doctrines of the bible. Calvin desired to build a church/state just like a papist would want to do. Luther considered himself Catholic until they day he died even though he got bounced from the RCC. It's time to move on from men like Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, Melanchthon, Knox, etc. to men whom God revealed more of his scripture too. I truly believe a lay person of today who loves God, lives and holy life and believes that God's word (KJV) is pure can know more of the "deep things of God" (I Cor. 2:10) then the fathers of the Reformation.

Psalm 119

[99] I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
[100] I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Edited by Wilchbla
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Calvin did some good things in his time but even he, like most of the theologians during his day, still had a lot of Catholicism in their blood. The RCC ruled the landscape for 1000 years until this time. You don't just snap out of it over night. It takes time to rediscover the doctrines of the bible. Calvin desired to build a church/state just like a papist would want to do. Luther considered himself Catholic until they day he died even though he got bounced from the RCC. It's time to move on from men like Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, Melanchthon, Knox, etc. to men whom God revealed more of his scripture too. I truly believe a lay person of today who loves God, lives and holy life and believes that God's word (KJV) is pure can know more of the "deep things of God" (I Cor. 2:10) then the fathers of the Reformation.

Psalm 119

[99] I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
[100] I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.


Some seem to think its impossible to live a good Christian life today, they seem to be always holding up pastors of yesterday years of whom they never met, who they were never around.
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The problem with Calvinism is that the idea of limited atonement spreads through the rest of the doctrines. For example, Calvinism would say that because atonement is limited (i.e.:God only died for the elect), therefore His grace, when extended is irresistible. It would claim Perseverance of the Saints (which is not the same as Eternal Security) because since man couldn't pick to get saved, he certainly can't pick to get unsaved! "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Because of this overlapping of doctrine, I really don't think people can be 'partial' Calvinists. You either are or you ain't. :)

You're right, the doctrine of limited atonement is false. And such a blasphemy to our Lord who died for the sins of the world! (John 3:16) Take a look at the second half of that verse. What does it say? "that whosoever believeth in Him..." Whosover! Not some predetermined elect! Rev. 22:17 says "whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.'" There's that whosoever again! But what comes after it? Whosoever will. That Will there refers to the choice man has to accept or reject Christ. Luke 13 speaks of Christ mourning over Jerusalem, saying that He would gladly have gathered her children together to Him, but they would not! That will to accept or reject is free will. Jeremiah 10:23-24 is referring to the fact that man does not have the wisdom to choose and direct his own way - and choose it right! He needs the Lord's leading and guidance. It is not referring to salvation.

Because man has a free will, therefore Calvinism falls apart. Man is depraved, yes, but he is not so Totally Depraved (as Calvinism would teach) that he cannot even choose Christ when God calls him. Unconditional Election is the idea that, based on Christ supposedly only dying for the sins of the elect, God has pre-picked the elect. There is no unconditional grace in Calvinism! UE is again Biblically false - if God picked some for hell, then why does He say that He "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance"? (2 Pet. 3:9) It would be very double-minded of God for Him to say that He doesn't want any to perish, but then to personally choose - to create! - men for that very purpose! Frankly, a god that created men only to destroy them would be a horrible god. Our God is not such. Ezekiel 33:11 tells us that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but desires them to turn from their wicked ways and live. He is calling them to turn! Where is this Unconditional Election here? Limited atonement, as you've already pointed out, is a direct contradiction of Christ's once-for-all atonement. Irresistible Grace cannot exist while man resists God. Ezekiel 33:11/2 Peter 3:9 again - we see here clearly that God clearly wants all to come to salvation - well, if man could not resist God's grace, why aren't they all saved? And the final point, Perseverance of the Saints, we see to be a corruption based on the other false TULIP doctrines. Once saved, always saved, yes - but not once saved because God picked us to go to heaven and we had no say in it and therefore always saved because we can't have a say against it.

Calvinism is an insidious doctrine that oh-so-subtly twists the pure Word of God. We have a nearby church that is being infiltrated by it, and it does seem from our observation of the church and various friends within it that no one ever learns Calvinism from the Bible! It has to be taught by hearing men and reading man's books. That's why it's so dangerous to listen to men like Paul Washer or John Piper - you might plan on chewing the meat and spitting out the bones, but are you sure you can always tell what the bones are? The Bible tells us to "mark them which cause divisions contrary to the faith (i.e. false doctrine) and avoid them". We are to separate ourselves from learning or reading their false doctrine lest it rub off on us!

BTW, one does not have to be either Calvinist or Armenian. Both are unbiblical. My pastor likes to say he's a Biblicist! ;)





Thanks! Now I know. I never thought that to be able to call yourself a calvinist you have TO EXCLUSIVELY adhere to what it professes.

Well, I am not a calvinist then! :)

I have to admit, I may have read the entire bible and yet not know everything, Praise Jesus that I get to ask in this website for BIBLICAL answers.

But, John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And
Jeremiah 10:
23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.


I don't know. But I do not think that man's free will is as great as I formerly believed. Before I became a Christian,. I do not want anything about God! I hated people who tried to convert me. But when He manifested Himself to me, drew me to Him, I can't resist. Why would I resist? For the first time, I found Him, Jesus, BEAUTIFUL and this same God, said He loves me.
I did not planned or decide that on my own. I did not planned a year ago before my conversion that "On that day, I will love God.:"

There are things I can't explain. But Jesus asked me, "If I never get to tell you why, will you still trust me? Still believe me? Still love me? "

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Believe me, in my walk with Him, I have experienced a whole lot more than to the long years of my life I knew Him not, combined.
Life became harder, more problematic, and more DEPENDENT. :)

But I have more peace :)

So, I guess, yes, we can choose to do things now, but man's free will is nothing.

but the question is, if Papa[God] is the one who draws people to himself, how about the others who refuse Him? Or say those who may have never heard about Jesus?

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Hahahaha.. I am happy I am not God. I don't have to immerse myself to solve all this issues! HAHAHA...
:) But imagine how GREAT He is to be able to take into consideration all these things... The God who Breathe the stars to place! Who sustains all creation and He does not fail in any of it. :) And He is our Father, :P

How blessed,

Grace to all.
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BTW, one does not have to be either Calvinist or Armenian. Both are unbiblical. My pastor likes to say he's a Biblicist! ;)


Great point salyan! Unfortunately, Calvinists believe...If you're not a Calvinist, you're an Arminian. I don't know if Arminians believe that vice-versa.

There are Calvinist churches, there are Arminian churches...and there are plenty of good and sound Bible-believing churches that don't hold to either camp (though they're becoming a minority it seems).

Both Calvinism and Arminianism have dangerous and false doctrines in their belief system. I don't understand why some people think you're either one or the other. I'm like your pastor, I'm not going to align myself with anything that contradicts scripture.

The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me. I'll stand alone on the word of God (not "Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion" or Arminius' "Five Articles of Remonstrance")...the B-I-B-L-E! :singing:

I'd never even heard of either until I got a computer, and I'd never been taught either system growing up in church.
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Thanks! Now I know. I never thought that to be able to call yourself a calvinist you have TO EXCLUSIVELY adhere to what it professes.

Well, I am not a calvinist then! :)

I have to admit, I may have read the entire bible and yet not know everything, Praise Jesus that I get to ask in this website for BIBLICAL answers.

But, John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And
Jeremiah 10:
23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.


I don't know. But I do not think that man's free will is as great as I formerly believed. Before I became a Christian,. I do not want anything about God! I hated people who tried to convert me. But when He manifested Himself to me, drew me to Him, I can't resist. Why would I resist? For the first time, I found Him, Jesus, BEAUTIFUL and this same God, said He loves me.
I did not planned or decide that on my own. I did not planned a year ago before my conversion that "On that day, I will love God.:"

There are things I can't explain. But Jesus asked me, "If I never get to tell you why, will you still trust me? Still believe me? Still love me? "

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Believe me, in my walk with Him, I have experienced a whole lot more than to the long years of my life I knew Him not, combined.
Life became harder, more problematic, and more DEPENDENT. :)

But I have more peace :)

So, I guess, yes, we can choose to do things now, but man's free will is nothing.

but the question is, if Papa[God] is the one who draws people to himself, how about the others who refuse Him? Or say those who may have never heard about Jesus?

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Hahahaha.. I am happy I am not God. I don't have to immerse myself to solve all this issues! HAHAHA...
:) But imagine how GREAT He is to be able to take into consideration all these things... The God who Breathe the stars to place! Who sustains all creation and He does not fail in any of it. :) And He is our Father, :P

How blessed,

Grace to all.


I don't know how others feel about this, but I cannot stand for people not to show disrespect for God, by calling Him papa or the Man Upstairs.

They just plainly refuse, Our Lord knocks, yet if they do not open the door, he never breaks in, or forces His way in. As already shown, its whosoever, & His will is actually everyone to be saved.

And as I preciously stated, if the TULIP doctrine was true, everyone that finds their self in Hell would be able to blame God, saying, You would not let us get saved, making Romans 1:18,19,20, which you posted, a lie, for they would have a
legitimate excuse.

I've heard of people that stated, 'I'm just to bad to be saved, with the sins I've committed, God does not want me nor will He save me,' perhaps someone gave them a big dose of Calvinism, & after hearing it they thought there was no way God would chose them to be saved because they've been to bad, I have to be one of those God rejected & doomed for Hell not matter what I do. When the fact is.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Confess their sins, Freely open that door, call on the name of the Lord, drinking the water of life freely & they will be cleansed from all unrighteousness.
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I don't know how others feel about this, but I cannot stand for people not to show disrespect for God, by calling Him papa or the Man Upstairs.

They just plainly refuse, Our Lord knocks, yet if they do not open the door, he never breaks in, or forces His way in. As already shown, its whosoever, & His will is actually everyone to be saved.

And as I preciously stated, if the TULIP doctrine was true, everyone that finds their self in Hell would be able to blame God, saying, You would not let us get saved, making Romans 1:18,19,20, which you posted, a lie, for they would have a
legitimate excuse.

I've heard of people that stated, 'I'm just to bad to be saved, with the sins I've committed, God does not want me nor will He save me,' perhaps someone gave them a big dose of Calvinism, & after hearing it they thought there was no way God would chose them to be saved because they've been to bad, I have to be one of those God rejected & doomed for Hell not matter what I do. When the fact is.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Confess their sins, Freely open that door, call on the name of the Lord, drinking the water of life freely & they will be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

Papa means daddy, father, and is a term of endearment for many. While it differs depending upon the culture, for some Papa means father, for others Papa is more intiment like daddy. We read in Scripture of calling God, "Abba, Father", which basically means "Daddy, Father".

Papa means Daddy or Father for many around the world and is not at all like saying "the man upstairs", which is disrespectful.
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I don't know how others feel about this, but I cannot stand for people not to show disrespect for God, by calling Him papa or the Man Upstairs.





Well, yes, this may seem inappropriate to call God Papa... At first, I was calling Him God, Almighty God, and then I read about Galatians 4:6 and Romans 8:15 and even asked Him if I can call Him Daddy. Of course, no burning bush, no walls falling, no fire blazing.,... I claimed it by faith. I said that if He does not want me to call Him such, let Him rebuke me by some means.

I called Him Daddy and then to Papa when after something He did for me, I just praised Him and the first thing that came to my mouth was Papa. Then felt Him say, "Isn't that better than Daddy? Heartfelt?"

I do not know if you will think I am nuts if I say that I sometimes hear a STILL SMALL VOICE. Yes I do.
But I have to be sure if they do not depart from anything from the Bible.

Written messages do not reflect the tone of the voice to express intention and emotion, that's why I perceived this as if you don't think its right. I need to admit, I got sad.

He's all I have. He is the only One I ever get to call my Papa... So forgive me.

I don't blame you though... He is God after all.

But no worries though... I'm gonna call Him Papa... Hehehehe... :)

Thanks for the insights though... Makes me really feel like a part of a big family.
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It's okay, Celina. God is our Father - which means our Papa (although in my Welsh heritage, that name means Grandpa) - and as long as one isn't using these names in an disrespectful manner, it is perfectly all right to call Him so! :)

I think the different cultures contribute to our views of which names are 'appropriate' to call the Lord. I have a Filipina friend who I'm pretty sure I've heard call God 'Papa' as well. On the other hand, the proliferation of The Shack in this culture (not a good book - don't bother looking it up ;) ) has probably given most North American fundamentalists a leeriness of using the same name.

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Still quite voice, yet, the only way we can know God, Jesus, & how to live to please Them, follow, is to study & know His Word, the Holy Bible. There is no new revelations given to anyone. As for the still quite voice, the Holy Spirit, if a person is saved it will convict that person when they are about to do something wrong.

Trouble with saying Papa, is it leads to many saying things like the man upstairs which become disrespectful. I use Bible language from my KJ Bible, that way I want go wrong, Father & or God.

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To Jerry well, Papa is just the same as Father right?... and Jesus called GOD, Abba = Father, Papa
What is troubling is when I heard a kid say Papa Jesus... Jesus is not our Father..

There are issues here because a lot of conservative Christians who have read the novel THE SHACK (this is a really bad novel... undoctrinal.. fantasy novel)... the author here addressed the character of GOD as Papa and the Christians said its disrespectful.

But some say its ok to call GOD Papa. And some say its okay if you're comfortable with it, after all what's important is in our hearts,

Well, can you cite in the bible if this is wrong? Any biblical basis so we will know.

Well, for my part I call Him Almighty Father. :coffee2:

Edited by pilgrimspen
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To Jerry well, Papa is just the same as Father right?... and Jesus called GOD, Abba = Father, Papa
What is troubling is when I heard a kid say Papa Jesus... Jesus is not our Father..

There are issues here because a lot of conservative Christians who have read the novel THE SHACK (this is a really bad novel... undoctrinal.. fantasy novel)... the author here addressed the character of GOD as Papa and the Christians said its disrespectful.

But some say its ok to call GOD Papa. And some say its okay if you're comfortable with it, after all what's important is in our hearts,

Well, can you cite in the bible if this is wrong? Any biblical basis so we will know.

Well, for my part I call Him Almighty Father. :coffee2:


Yes, I know what Papa means, as I stated earlier, I dislike what it leads some to call God.
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I've not read any of the books by Piper but I looked him up on YouTube and watched serval videos of him. Out of all the videos I watched I only found one kind of good. I don't really care for his style and didn't care for the messages in most of his videos either.

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Are the "wolves in sheep's clothing" the Jim Bakkers, Benny Hinns, and MIke Murdocks of the world? Just how well does a wolf disguise himself in the sheep's skin? Do his feet stick out? Or would he look just like a real sheep? How much light does an angel of light give out? He can tote a King James Bible and even teach many of it's truths. We better get out eyes off man, quit trusting men, get in the Word and look to Jesus.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

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Well, I respect your sides, sirs.

But Papa knows my heart. If it is a sin to feel very very much close to God, enough to be too ambitious, then I am glad that
I am atoned for it by the Lord's blood.

Isaiah 29
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Matthew 15
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

I may honour Him in so much as to call Him in all majesty and all royalty, ALMIGHTY GOD, ELOHIM, LORD OF LORDS, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, but if that will not make me love Him more and make me more holy unto GOD, what's the use?

Sorry.

Just the idea of not able to call Him Papa makes me cry.

I won't stop calling Him that, anyway. :) :)

Jesus understands me.

Also....

Matthew 23:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I don't know what this verse specifically means, but I believe it just emphasizes that God is the only Father.

I was abandoned by my biological dad ever since the fallopian tube and never get to call anyone daddy.

It wasn't until when I met Jesus that He have purposed such things in my life that by the time I get to met Him, the hunger and deepest yearning for a father will be quenched by Him.

Even John got to rest in Jesus' chest for a while. He is God, JOhn was not worthy to do such, he is also a sinner.
He was resting on Jesus' chest! He was that near to Him!

Lets admit that even if we know that we don't deserve anything, we are still hungry for that kind of intimacy with Papa.

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Well, I respect your sides, sirs.

But Papa knows my heart.


The Lord knows all of our hearts! Remember Jeremiah 17:9?

Be careful young lady, I know a lot of liberals who say the Lord knows their heart, they use this term to cover for their rebellion, not being scripturally baptized, dressing and wearing their hair like men, pastoring churches, not going to church, etc.
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Well, I respect your sides, sirs.

But Papa knows my heart. If it is a sin to feel very very much close to God, enough to be too ambitious, then I am glad that
I am atoned for it by the Lord's blood.

Isaiah 29
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Matthew 15
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

I may honour Him in so much as to call Him in all majesty and all royalty, ALMIGHTY GOD, ELOHIM, LORD OF LORDS, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, but if that will not make me love Him more and make me more holy unto GOD, what's the use?

Sorry.

Just the idea of not able to call Him Papa makes me cry.

I won't stop calling Him that, anyway. :) :)

Jesus understands me.

Also....

Matthew 23:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I don't know what this verse specifically means, but I believe it just emphasizes that God is the only Father.

I was abandoned by my biological dad ever since the fallopian tube and never get to call anyone daddy.

It wasn't until when I met Jesus that He have purposed such things in my life that by the time I get to met Him, the hunger and deepest yearning for a father will be quenched by Him.

Even John got to rest in Jesus' chest for a while. He is God, JOhn was not worthy to do such, he is also a sinner.
He was resting on Jesus' chest! He was that near to Him!

Lets admit that even if we know that we don't deserve anything, we are still hungry for that kind of intimacy with Papa.


I believe if you respected our side of this issue you would not keep on posting about this, & leave it. I've made it quite plain why I dislike it, I will be polite & leave it there. Why keep on? Are you trying to do, convince us, or yourself?
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  • 2 years later...
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Irishman is correct. I wish that I could remember MacArthurs's exact statement, but it was basically something along this line...



It's n

ot

Jesus' blood that atones; it's his death.

When MacArthur was asked to explain his position since the Bible makes it clear that it's the blood that atones, he said something along this line...



When I read about Jesus' blood being shed, I realize it's speaking about his death...

In my opinion, that's heretical.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/blood.htm

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John MacArthur did not believe in the atoning blood. That is documented online by a statement he wrote himself. That's enough to toss him out. The others, well flip a coin, you get what you seek after.

I would go with Spurgeon, he is considered a Calvinist, but sees both sides, which is a rare thing among believers. He says that both arguments are true.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/blood.htm

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