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When Did Jesus Start His Church? Matthew 16? Or Acts 2?


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

there seems to be a group of "john r. rice followers" who claim the church began in matthew 16, while on the other hand a group of "c.i.scofield followers" that state it was in acts2. what do you readers think and give scriptural evidence with your answer.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well, being neither a John R. Rice follower nor a Scofield follower, I will still give my thoughts on the subject...

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

  1. All church members are baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
  2. The Holy Spirit wasn't given until Acts 2.

Therefore, I believe the church started in Acts 2.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

there seems to be a group of "john r. rice followers" who claim the church began in matthew 16, while on the other hand a group of "c.i.scofield followers" that state it was in acts2. what do you readers think and give scriptural evidence with your answer.


I believe Jesus started His church, the Church at Jerusalem, as He called out His disciples, & on the day of Pentecost, members were added to His church when Peter preached that great sermon filled with the Holy Spirit. Its quite impossible to add to something that has not been started.

Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well, being neither a John R. Rice follower nor a Scofield follower, I will still give my thoughts on the subject...

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
  1. All church members are baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
  2. The Holy Spirit wasn't given until Acts 2.

Therefore, I believe the church started in Acts 2.


After further review...the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples before the day of Pentecost (Acts 2)...

John 20:21-22
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Therefore, I'm changing my view...

According to 1 Corinthians 12:13, the Holy Spirit baptizes the believer into the body of Christ (the church); Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples in John 20:22; therefore, (in my view) the church didn't begin in Matthew 16 or Acts 2...it began with the disciples in John 20. Edited by No Nicolaitans
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

are you saying that you believe the church was started in matthew but expanded in acts 2?


I'm not saying I believe that, I'm saying that is what the Scriptures teach. And that is what I teach.

Check out when the 1st Lords Supper was held, or implemented, Jesus & other members of the 1st church were present, they had been a church for quite some time at that point. Edited by Jerry80871852
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If you will check my 1st post, your saying the same thing as I did. So, none of the above is wrong.


Sorry, when I said none of the above I was replying to the initial post's options. I figured at least some held to the same view as I.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Didn't the church actually begin in the book of Genesis?


Not the New Testament Church, not Jesus' Church, Jesus started His Church following John the Baptist coming & preaching Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, & baptizing believers.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I personally think that the church was in Acts. First, the church is to wait for the bridegroom's return. Second, the church did not have the Holy Spirit until Acts. I don't think there was really a "church" while Christ was still on the earth.

I actually think my husband believes the church started with the apostles with Christ so its not like its a huge deal to disagree. But I feel like it occurred in Acts. Acts is the pattern we follow, not Matthew.

I think maybe Christ was preparing his followers to have a church in His absence....but I don't really think it was official until Pentecost, which is when large-scale evangelizing began. Until Pentecost, Christ actually instructed his followers to remain in Jerusalem and "wait".

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

the greek word for church is ecclasia, or called out assembly. does the resurrection really have anything to do with it? there was the :church" in the wilderness with moses. would'nt the church consist of a gathering of believers anywhere at any time? sorry for so many questions, but this question arose at an ordination service and i had a difficult time voting for the guy, when he said acts was the beginning. i believe that is when they were empowered to evangelize, not the beginning.

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  • Moderators

the greek word for church is ecclasia, or called out assembly. does the resurrection really have anything to do with it? there was the :church" in the wilderness with moses. would'nt the church consist of a gathering of believers anywhere at any time? sorry for so many questions, but this question arose at an ordination service and i had a difficult time voting for the guy, when he said acts was the beginning. i believe that is when they were empowered to evangelize, not the beginning.


We see no evidence of the church as defined by the NT in the OT. They were under a different covenant in the OT - different system of worship, of religious leadership, of ordinances and rules to live by. Worshipped the same God, but a completely different dispensation and organization. Especially since a church is not just any gathering of believers, anywhere, but one that is meeting for worship, observing the ordinances, led by an elder - as defined in the outline Paul gave for the 'running' of the church.
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Could the church begin before Christ had died and resurrected? I don't really think so...


You are correct. The church would have began at the cross of Christ.

Acts 20:28- Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in mt. sinai, and with our fathers: who recieved the lively oracles to give unto us." ( speaking of Moses)

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Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in mt. sinai, and with our fathers: who recieved the lively oracles to give unto us." ( speaking of Moses)


Good observation.

Notice this verse?

Hebrews 2:12- Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

This is a reference to an OT verse. Notice also when you check the verse out in the OT what it says?

Psalm 22:22- I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

So a church can be just a congregation. Edited by Wilchbla
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It began on the shores of Galilee when Jesus called his first members to follow Him. He did say "I will build my church", not my disciples nor anyone else. The Holy Spirit was there all along, well before Pentecost.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I will try to be good... :)

Perhaps there is more than 1 church...? The church of the bride (the OT, including the gospels and Revelation), and the church of the body (the NT epistles).

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  • 3 months later...
  • Moderators

None of the above. It was in Matthew 4 when Jesus called his first disciples.


Amen! If a church is a 'called-out assembly", then the church began when the first disciples were 'called out' and began to assemble together in Jesus name, under His authority. Nice to find others who agree in this.
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  • 2 months later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well, being neither a John R. Rice follower nor a Scofield follower, I will still give my thoughts on the subject...

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

  • All church members are baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
  • The Holy Spirit wasn't given until Acts 2.
Therefore, I believe the church started in Acts 2.

Amen brother!

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You know Calvary Chapel believes in two different baptisms too.  First, immersion, and then later on as you've matured they say the Holy Spirit will baptize you for the Lord's work or something like that.  I think they like those who believe the church didn't form until Acts 2 are in accord.

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