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.Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
and.........1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

When this happens, in the future, Job WILL be there, along with every saint who has ever lived and ever will live, thus "all the sons of God" from all of the ages, will truly "shout for joy" at that time. Yet God is ALREADY THERE. and from His perspective it has ALREADY happened be cause God "inhabiteth eternity". ... :hide:


It is not in the future, it is in the past, and present.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The temple of the Lord is the Church. also:

1 Peter 2:4 ¶ To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The lively stones, which are are built up a spiritual house, are the same people,that is the Church, Zion's City





Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Zion, city of our God!
He, whose Word cannot be broken,
Formed thee for His own abode.
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation’s walls surrounded,
Thou may’st smile at all thy foes.

See! the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love;
Well supply thy sons and daughters,
And all fear of want remove:
Who can faint while such a river
Ever flows their thirst t’assuage?
Grace, which like the Lord, the giver,
Never fails from age to age.

Round each habitation hovering,
See the cloud and fire appear!
For a glory and a covering
Showing that the Lord is near.
Thus deriving from our banner
Light by night and shade by day;
Safe they feed upon the manna
Which He gives them when they pray.

Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer’s blood!
Jesus, whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
’Tis His love His people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, His solemn praises
Each for a thank offering brings.

Savior, if of Zion’s city,
I through grace a member am,
Let the world deride or pity,
I will glory in Thy name.
Fading is the worldling’s pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion’s children know.
John Newton
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I don't know. God's word does not say, so I won't guess.

It could be the figure of speech prosopopoecia (personification) - things or actions represented as persons or actions.

The context is full of figures. (A figure is used for emphasis.)
Foundations of the earth. The earth has no foundation, literally. It spins in space.
The corner stone of the earth. The earth has no cornerstone, literally.
The cloud earth's garment. The earth is not a person, to wear a garment. Nor are clouds garments.

And so it goes on. Figurative language, making the truth even more vivid than the literal truth. God's wisdom is exhibited in so many activities, even in the inanimate creation and created items.

God's opinion of Elihu's words are so different from what most people think. Elihu mixes some truth and error together, to finish the job which Satan had started. God says to Job concerning Elihu's address: Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Elihu's words are not just dark. His words made the counsel Job was receiving (from his miserable comforters) darker.

God wanted Job to come to Him for answers, rather than the three 'friends', and certainly more than darker counseling Elihu.


Who could have been present with God? We know that at that time humans had not been created, & we know it was not Christ, so that seems to leave angles. But you stated that angles cannot sing. I've never seems words stating that angels cannot sing Yet I know there's a few that believes that the the morning stars singing in Job 38:7, is angels. And that I what I firmly believe, unless someone can prove it wrong.

And we know there's many angels.

Ps 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Re 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Mt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?


Yes, there's many angels, perhaps some of them can sing after all.
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.Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
and.........1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

When this happens, in the future, Job WILL be there, along with every saint who has ever lived and ever will live, thus "all the sons of God" from all of the ages, will truly "shout for joy" at that time. Yet God is ALREADY THERE. and from His perspective it has ALREADY happened be cause God "inhabiteth eternity". ... :hide:


Yes, in the future, but Job was not present with God when the foundation for this world;d was being laid.
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Job 38 does not call it a "world"; it says "earth". This physical planet "earth" has no foundations, no cornerstone, no "doors" and no "windows because it is not a "house" or building. As Trell said, Job 38 is poetic and figurative. Likewise, Jesus isn't even a physical "cornerstone" or a physical "star" or even a "rose" so all of that is figurative too. Job will be one of the saints who shouts for joy in a future "time", but that has already occurred from God's perspective. When Jesus said "before Abraham was, I Am", He was saying basically "I pre-exist Abraham RIGHT NOW".... God is in the past and in the future at the same time. He fills "space" to infinity and inhabits "time" in eternity, Hence where the Bible says that Jesus is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world", Jesus was already crucified RIGHT THEN from God's perspective while, from OUR perspective, that did not happen until "the fulness of time" had come. So, Job 38 could be speaking of the creation. as you say, but it, being dark and figurative, just might not be.

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It is not in the future, it is in the past, and present.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The temple of the Lord is the Church. also:

1 Peter 2:4 ¶ To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The lively stones, which are are built up a spiritual house, are the same people,that is the Church, Zion's City





Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Zion, city of our God!
He, whose Word cannot be broken,
Formed thee for His own abode.
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation’s walls surrounded,
Thou may’st smile at all thy foes.

See! the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love;
Well supply thy sons and daughters,
And all fear of want remove:
Who can faint while such a river
Ever flows their thirst t’assuage?
Grace, which like the Lord, the giver,
Never fails from age to age.

Round each habitation hovering,
See the cloud and fire appear!
For a glory and a covering
Showing that the Lord is near.
Thus deriving from our banner
Light by night and shade by day;
Safe they feed upon the manna
Which He gives them when they pray.

Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer’s blood!
Jesus, whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
’Tis His love His people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, His solemn praises
Each for a thank offering brings.

Savior, if of Zion’s city,
I through grace a member am,
Let the world deride or pity,
I will glory in Thy name.
Fading is the worldling’s pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion’s children know.
John Newton


That's interesting. So the foundations and cornerstone, of Isaiah 51, could have been 'laid" during the time of the first coming of Christ? Is that what you're saying? I was thinking that the actual, physical event of "laying the cornerstone in Zion" wouldn't be until the second coming, or after the millennial reign, in the physical location of Mount Zion. Or perhaps even in the New Jerusalem". I will need to study this.
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Job 38 does not call it a "world"; it says "earth". This physical planet "earth" has no foundations, no cornerstone, no "doors" and no "windows because it is not a "house" or building. As Trell said, Job 38 is poetic and figurative. Likewise, Jesus isn't even a physical "cornerstone" or a physical "star" or even a "rose" so all of that is figurative too. Job will be one of the saints who shouts for joy in a future "time", but that has already occurred from God's perspective. When Jesus said "before Abraham was, I Am", He was saying basically "I pre-exist Abraham RIGHT NOW".... God is in the past and in the future at the same time. He fills "space" to infinity and inhabits "time" in eternity, Hence where the Bible says that Jesus is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world", Jesus was already crucified RIGHT THEN from God's perspective while, from OUR perspective, that did not happen until "the fulness of time" had come. So, Job 38 could be speaking of the creation. as you say, but it, being dark and figurative, just might not be.


Job 38:4 ¶ Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Your picky, & love to play with words. I used the word world, that's true, but its quite clear I was referring to this earth as in Job 38:4.

Yes, there is a foundation, a foundation for this earth & it was laid, it was laid in the past, & clearly during the time told about in Genesis chapter 1, & 2, that is during days God was creating, & if you will read from Job 38th chapter, you can find who laid this foundation, & much more about it.

Yet, it seems you disagree with the Bible on this matter, & at that time Job had not been born, you need to do some reading, studying, & research, before weighing in on this matter. No put down intended, just trying to help.
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Who could have been present with God? We know that at that time humans had not been created, & we know it was not Christ, so that seems to leave angles. But you stated that angles cannot sing. I've never seems words stating that angels cannot sing Yet I know there's a few that believes that the the morning stars singing in Job 38:7, is angels. And that I what I firmly believe, unless someone can prove it wrong.

And we know there's many angels.

Ps 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Re 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Mt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?


Yes, there's many angels, perhaps some of them can sing after all.


Please read what I wrote. I did NOT say angels CAN'T sing. Please quote me accurately!
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Job 38:4 ¶ Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Your picky, & love to play with words. I used the word world, that's true, but its quite clear I was referring to this earth as in Job 38:4.

Yes, there is a foundation, a foundation for this earth & it was laid, it was laid in the past, & clearly during the time told about in Genesis chapter 1, & 2, that is during days God was creating, & if you will read from Job 38th chapter, you can find who laid this foundation, & much more about it.

Yet, it seems you disagree with the Bible on this matter, & at that time Job had not been born, you need to do some reading, studying, & research, before weighing in on this matter. No put down intended, just trying to help.


"Picky"? I just asked my Wife and she concurs. Play with words? I do write songs and poetry, but when it comes quoting to the Word of God. I think it's wise to be meticulous when quoting it. The King James Bible is word specific. For instance If it says "you" in one place, that is very different from where it says "thou". Likewise, "world" and "earth" mean different things or they would not be different. The scribes, I'm told, were VERY "picky" or, more accurately,"meticulous" when they copied the Word of God. So it is not "playing words" to be fussy about uisng the correct ones. And just because someone disagrees with your interpretation, doesn't necessarily mean they are "disagreeing with the word of God"
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Please read what I wrote. I did NOT say angels CAN'T sing. Please quote me accurately!


You stated, there is no record of them singing.

Your post under this topic, its post number 5.


Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I disagree, they're on record as having sang at least once.
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One of the problems with that; angels cannot be "sons" of God. Hebrews 1:5


Just ask, there will be several that will tell you that sons of God in the below Scriptures is referring to angels.

Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 ¶ Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
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I wouldn't ask. My Bible says it's not wise to "follow a multitude" nor even put my trust in one man for that matter. I have studied that passage as well and, by all indications, the events in it took place on earth, and those "sons of God" who came to "present themselves before the Lord" were human believers, including Brother Job himself. After coming to that interpretation alone , with no one to agree, not even a commentary, it was at least encouraging to learn later that Matthew Henry mentioned it's possibility as well. Of course, as human nature would have it, that made me feel like I wasn't a complete oddball. But too many things are believed about the word of God that just ain't so, and too many people take brother so and so's word for things without question. That can prove to be dangerous. The Berean Christians weren't like that. We need to be "Berean Christians" as well as "Philadelphia Christians".

Edited by heartstrings
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No what is spoken of by God, to Job, happened in the past, as God was creating. And there was no humans with God at this time, for even Adam had not been created as God laid the foundation for this world. So its quite clear, humans could not have been with God during the laying of the foundation.

We do have to use Bible truths, in order to stay in the truth.

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My last post #27 was a reply to your post #26 about Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, but now you have switched back to Job 38. :puzzled3:::



Just ask, there will be several that will tell you that sons of God in the below Scriptures is referring to angels.

Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 ¶ Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Edited by heartstrings
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