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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Majesty Music And Getty

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Melodys
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I don't know much about the dead ones John but I gather this; that today's writers are ashamed of God and Christ because they do not stand up for Him or renounce sin in their presence. The keep quiet to keep the paychecks coming and are repulsed by the thought of the world not liking them anymore, or worse yet, labeling them an extremist, fundamentalist, etc. The majority of the old hymn writers I gather did not think that way. How would Calvin or Luther compare to 10th Avenue North or Amy Grant? I believe they'd be appalled with each other.


You have to be very careful when making sweeping generalisations like this.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 Right now, we have no real standard.

 

Who's we?  I, my family, my church and close church families share the same standards generally.  I've mentioned them here before, many agree but you never do, always saying there's no standard when it's you who does not seem to want one.  Go ahead and have the last word here too; it seems you and I will never agree in this life about Godly music.

 

 

You have to be very careful when making sweeping generalisations like this.

 

Yes Preacher, one does have to be careful.

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Who's we?  I, my family, my church and close church families share the same standards generally.  I've mentioned them here before, many agree but you never do, always saying there's no standard when it's you who does not seem to want one.  Go ahead and have the last word here too; it seems you and I will never agree in this life about Godly music.

 

 

 

Yes Preacher, one does have to be careful.

"We" is referring to IFB, Baptists or Christians in general. There is no set, consistent standard among them. Even if we narrow it down to just IFB, the standards for music can vary greatly from one IFB church to another.

 

As Jerry and some others have pointed out, each church is indpendent and should set standards of music for their own church. The problem comes in when one church denounces or attacks other churches who hold to different standards. Then we end up with one church trying to impose their standards upon someone elses church. Many go along with this.

 

My point is, either we need to tend to our own churches on this matter and involve ourselves in what other churches are doing, or if we think all churches should be in agreement on music, we need to come up with one consistent standard for all of us.

 

As you say, you and your family, as well as your church have your standards for music, as does mine, as does others. Are we going to accept that some will be more similar than others while some will be different and not launch attacks at one another over this, or do we think we need to get together and work out one consistent set of standards for us all to go by?

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Are we going to accept that some will be more similar than others while some will be different and not launch attacks at one another over this, or do we think we need to get together and work out one consistent set of standards for us all to go by?

 

The consistent set of standards already exists in the Bible, John.

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The consistent set of standards already exists in the Bible, John.

Please post them specifically because thus far millions of Christians over the centuries have been unable to come to this conclusion. This is why one Baptist church has an organ, another only uses piano, the next uses both, another down the street allows accoustic guitars, the next also allows electric guitars, yet another sometimes uses drums, there's one that has a band, another with a full orchestra, and yet a few that don't use instruments. Each of these site Scripture for why they are biblically correct and others are wrong.

 

The same holds true for the songs used themselves. A few still hold to singing psalms only, some use one set of hymns, another a different set of hymns, those use this hymnal and they use a different hymnal, some use selected newer songs to their own music, some use selected newer songs with its original music, some use a lot of newer songs, some use any newer song, some Baptist churches reject certain song writers music while other Baptist churches accept them, etc. Each sites Scripture to show why they are right and others are wrong.

 

What verses specifically say what musical instruments are and aren't acceptable in church? What verses specifically say what music styles are and are not acceptable? What verses specifically put forth the qualifications for an acceptable song writer? What verses define the area of preference?

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No, I'm not getting into this again with you.  You have some of the books, a list of others, go read them and they'll point you to the verses and show you the principles.

None of those books put forth answers to the questions. This is why Christians, including Baptists, have varying views when it comes to music. The fact is, the Word doesn't give many specifics with regards to music. There are indeed principles in Scripture which apply to music as well as other things, yet principles don't provide details. There are some matters regarding these principles as we relate them to music that many Baptists agree upon. After that, the application goes in various directions.

 

The music in black Baptist churches and white Baptist churches tends to be rather different. The music in Baptist churches in Africa, India, Asia and elsewhere is often even more different, and different from one another. Is only one of these churches right and the others wrong, or is it possible music can be used in a variety of ways to glorify God?

 

There is also the issue of consistency as some churches set standards for certain music but then they don't apply those standards too all their music.

 

When one looks at the music that was played in ancient Israel it included a wide variety of instruments and was loud. Likely as not, most of us here wouldn't want to hear that style of music and probably wouldn't like the loudness either. Preference fits into this discussion somewhere, but just where is something Baptists don't agree upon.

 

This isn't about me, it's about Christianity in general and Baptists in particular. We are and have been divided upon the issue of music for centuries.

 

Myself, I like the old hymns. I like to hear them and sing them with no instruments, with a piano or organ, or with instruments played in a bluegrass style. I like some old time Southern Gospel and quartet style music.

 

At the same time I realize there are many born again Christians who like their music differently. I've been in black Baptist churches where the music didn't appeal to me at all as sang or played, yet the black folks there were praising God and worshiping. Some Baptists like a full orchestra playing in their church, some don't. Who should decide whether this is right or acceptable or not.

 

The only point I'm making is that Baptist churches have no set standard they agree upon and this is why we have so many varieties of songs and instruments used in Baptist churches. All these Baptist churches playing different music have set their standards based upon Scripture yet they don't all agree with one another on these matters.

 

Myself, if I was in a church that started playing music I didn't thing was appropriate I would talk with the pastor (I did this once back in the 90s) and if the pastor was unable to give a clear biblical reasoning as to why it's sound, I would move on and I wouldn't attack the church for their music choices because that's their business as an independent church.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It sure does John.  Go read Kimberly Smith's Let Those Who Have Ears To Hear.  There's enough Bible in their to answer your questions in the first 1/3 of the book.

I don't have a question. I'm content with my families music standards as well as our churches, what others do doesn't cause me to lose sleep.

 

The book you mention obviously isn't accepted by Christians in general, Baptists or even just IFBs otherwise we would see a coming together among many upon solid, consistent biblical standards. As it is, we have the same turmoil over music going on we've seen for hundreds of years.

 

Even among only IFBs there is no set, accepted, consistent standard regarding music. There are disagreements and even arguments over various hymns, newer music, songwriters, instruments, etc.

 

If even the small, mostly conservative minded IFBs are unable to come to agreement on the matter of music, there is no chance Christians in general will even come close.

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  • 5 years later...
  • Members

Hi, there! There used to be an mp3 recording online of a 2013 interview with Keith Getty at the following address: http://www.assist-ministries.com/FrontPageRadio/FPR06.09.13KeithGettyMono.mp3. I can't find it anywhere, but it's the one where he praises the likes of Elton John, Sting and the Beatles as his musical inspirations and says Bono is a great, theological thinker. I've listened to it, but didn't download it, and now I can't find it. Does anyone have this recording? Thank you.

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On 2/21/2019 at 4:30 PM, KCK said:

Hi, there! There used to be an mp3 recording online of a 2013 interview with Keith Getty at the following address: http://www.assist-ministries.com/FrontPageRadio/FPR06.09.13KeithGettyMono.mp3. I can't find it anywhere, but it's the one where he praises the likes of Elton John, Sting and the Beatles as his musical inspirations and says Bono is a great, theological thinker. I've listened to it, but didn't download it, and now I can't find it. Does anyone have this recording? Thank you.

Do you know who the interviewer was?

Edited by Invicta
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3 minutes ago, KCK said:

Hi...the Lord actually helped me find it! This is the recording where Keith Getty openly supports/lauds/endorses several very worldly, secular artists. Thanks for asking!

Would you like to share the link?

Edited by Invicta
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  • 2 months later...
  • Members
On 5/28/2012 at 10:21 PM, Melodys said:

If you do not know who the Getty's are, please look them up before posting.
Have you noticed that the new Majesty hymnal contains music from the Gettys/Sovereign Grace? What is your opinion on that? I find it an outrage that they are digging through garbage to find good music. I think it is sad I can't just buy a CD from a trusted source without knowing if there is CCM behind the music. Why aren't pastors stepping up and writing the Hamiltons? Why aren't we fighting for our music? Why have we stopped caring about associations? Don't people understand as soon as a weaker Christian hears you listening to something like "Amazing Grace My Chains are Gone" they will automatically assume you would listen to Chris Tomlin? We will loose my generation if we do not stand true.

I have noticed; even in our IFBC's that they are using watered down contemporary music in their services.

They may not use the drums and guitars; but they tone it down enough to use the piano. In my opinion this is supporting the CCM movement. Why is this happening; when there is good quality Christian music out there?

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On 5/13/2019 at 8:49 AM, mgnandt said:

I have noticed; even in our IFBC's that they are using watered down contemporary music in their services.

They may not use the drums and guitars; but they tone it down enough to use the piano. In my opinion this is supporting the CCM movement. Why is this happening; when there is good quality Christian music out there?

There may be all kinds of reasons, carnality, laziness, ignorance, ecumenism, depravity, etc.

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  • 2 years later...
  • Administrators

I heard someone say on social media about not using Majesty Hymns hymnal because of the CCM in it so I went to Google to see what I can find people saying. Low and behold, Google brought me to this older thread on Online Baptist.

Anyone here have a problem using Majesty Hymns hymnals?

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3 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

I heard someone say on social media about not using Majesty Hymns hymnal because of the CCM in it so I went to Google to see what I can find people saying. Low and behold, Google brought me to this older thread on Online Baptist.

Anyone here have a problem using Majesty Hymns hymnals?

Not as far as I can recall. I believe that one of the SBC churches we were in used the Majesty Hymns hymnal...I didn't like all of the songs, but, I don't have to. I can "take the meat and leave the bone." 😉

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6 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Not as far as I can recall. I believe that one of the SBC churches we were in used the Majesty Hymns hymnal...I didn't like all of the songs, but, I don't have to. I can "take the meat and leave the bone." 😉we currently are using the Majesty him though

Our church is currently using the Majesty hymnal. I personally don't like it (not because of CCM), but that's more of a preference than anything else.

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10 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

Our church is currently using the Majesty hymnal. I personally don't like it (not because of CCM), but that's more of a preference than anything else.

 

I'm not against ALL ccm, but I don't like a lot of it. Seems like ever since the 1970a when I was a teen and some of the CCM had started creeping into the church my family attended and then was stopped, I researched a lot of what music does to our worship. I was a pianinst, and I learned how to "play by ear." I used to play country songs, etc., and I also played religious music. I could tell a total difference in my moods and attitudes after listening to each type of music. Then at MBBC, I got to do a lot more research when I was finishing up one of my semesters with piano lessons. I also got to hera Mrs. Cedarholm talk about music several times. Great woman! Great insights on what happens. I guess mine is part conviction, part personal preference.

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