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Majesty Music And Getty


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It would help if we had specific rules or guidelines regarding music that was consistently held to. This isn't the case, whether we are talking about Christian churches in general, Baptists or even specifically IFBs.

Even if we only speak to the smaller issue of IFB churches, there is no agreement as to what rules or guidelines to use in determining the acceptable or unacceptable status of songs.

When individual churches have some set of rules they follow for themselves, these rules are most often not applied consistently. Typically certain types or styles of music are rejected based upon their rules yet music they like which also doesn't meet their guidelines are accepted using various exceptions so they can accept them.

There is also the very difficult to contend with aspect of preference. How much debate over music is simply a matter of preference, with the preference (whether pro or con) not being a matter of right or wrong, but simply of preference? What determines the line between legitimate preference and a sound standard?

For the sake of discussion, I'm only considering true bibical churches here, made up of those born again in Christ. We know that even when we narrow the issue down to just considering actual Christians, there is still no agreement, no solid standards that are consistently followed.

There are true Christian churches using a wide variety of music in a variety of styles, from orchastras to organ only, from bluegrass to modern Southern Gospel, from piano only to old style Southern Gospel, from psalms only to only hymns from a particular hymnbook, from one aspect of what is called CCM to another, from guitar to no guitar, from any musical instrument to only a select few or even no instruments at all.

Is it likely all these true Christian churches are going to come together and agree upon one standard for church music and then consistently apply the standard? No. When it comes down to it, we really only have influence in this area within our own church. Often, even within a true Christian church with a set of clear music standards established, there is not full agreement in this area.

Music is an important thing to consider and each individual and church should confront the issue and settle it as best as possible. Beyond that we must remember that part of IFB is Independent and that means we will never have one set standard that is consistently applied among all IFBs, and we absolutely won't see that beyond IFBs.

Our church has a short set of guidelines regarding music and the pastors have the authority to accept or reject music. Anyone is free to suggest a song be played or sang in the church, or to have one dropped, but it will be the pastors making the decision based upon the guidelines.

It seems some other churches have something similar, some follow "their" select hymnal only, some allow a "music pastor/leader" to determine such matters, and some are so open almost anything is allowed.

This is an important area to consider when looking for a church home. It's possible to have a good church with a good pastor preaching the Gospel yet they use music one has a preference against or that one doesn't believe is appropriate. Better to learn this before committing to a church.

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Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Ho 10:2 Their heart is divided; now shall they be found faulty: he shall break down their altars, he shall spoil their images.

Ac 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Eph 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

We have many churches, that are made up of unbelievers, or at least there's more unbelievers in them, than believers. That would be close to 80% of the churches, those that teach one is saved by works & ect. These churches that do teach the one & only way to be saved, in them you have a majority of lost people. Plus you have the unlearned in those that do teach people how to be saved. Every wind that comes blowing in, tosses them to & fro. There is nothing stable about them. As God says, 'A doubled minded person is unstable in all his ways.

So there is no wonder that many churches are full of ungodly music & singers, while setting setting them up on a pedstal, for that is their entertainment. Plus, much of the modern music, especially CCM & Southern Gospel, is to show off the singers voice, that is bring glory to the singer, sell CD's, not for really brining glory to our 'Awesome God.'

I love congregation singing, its for glorifying our 'Mighty God.'

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If you do not know who the Getty's are, please look them up before posting.
Have you noticed that the new Majesty hymnal contains music from the Gettys/Sovereign Grace? What is your opinion on that? I find it an outrage that they are digging through garbage to find good music. I think it is sad I can't just buy a CD from a trusted source without knowing if there is CCM behind the music. Why aren't pastors stepping up and writing the Hamiltons? Why aren't we fighting for our music? Why have we stopped caring about associations? Don't people understand as soon as a weaker Christian hears you listening to something like "Amazing Grace My Chains are Gone" they will automatically assume you would listen to Chris Tomlin? We will loose my generation if we do not stand true.

Keith & Kristyn Getty have a very positive influence on Christian music & particularly on Stuart Townend. Their collaborations have produced hymns with good basic tunes which do not need a singer-songwriter to lead. Townend has moved from CCM that I have rejected to hymns including "In Christ Alone" "How Deep the Father's Love" "My heart is filled with Thankfulness"

These, I believe, are good Scriptural hymns that will stand the test of time, unlike much of the CCM ephemera which has already passed into oblivion.

The CCM aspect of the Gettys is apparent in their concert tours, & Kristyn's voice has been badly "Americanised." Is that a reason to reject the hymns? Do we reject "Amazing Grace" because there are many bad versions?

There are many hymnbooks & all include hymns we would not sing, & some of the older & most Scriptural are of poor quality with regard to the poetry - many of the Scottish Metrical Psalms are barely comprehensible because of forced rhymes & displaced word order to fit the metre. BUT these were introduced so congregations could sing - line by line, in English. Luther wrote hymns so his congregations could sing. Before that worship was by the priests & choirs in Latin.

My early music experience was my mother (Doris Day) singing mainly English folk songs. Church music was Anglican chants, versicles & responses, & was pretty meaningless. School hymns tended to be formal & "heavy."

CCM has made a form of Christian music popular, & the Gettys are putting some substance & a more traditional form into it.

I choose most of the hymns we sing, but I find that many of the old hymns I have known & loved for over 50 years are so poorly known that the congregation is in difficulty singing them. Include a Getty/Townend hymn & it goes well - even if is not already known.

The hymnbook compilers use THEIR wisdom in what they include. We use OUR wisdom in what we choose to sing.
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Well, Ian, I chose a scottish metrical psalm, yesterday, for our old folks lunch club. We sang, the Lord's my Shepherd to Crimmond and they all sang it well even though quite a lot of them are not church goers. If I chose that awful Townend version, i expect only a few would have known it. (and the chorus doesn't make sense)

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Majesty Music e-mailed me back with the following reply. Note they responded with a few paragraphs but totally ignored my point. My point was CCM was being introduced though the Gettys and Townend. I also mentioned Dr. Frank Garlock who they don't mention.


Thank you for contacting Majesty Music in regards to Rejoice Hymns. The editors of the hymnal chose to include the songs after much prayer and after seeking counsel. A portion of the preface to the book includes the following information in regards to the selection process:

In “Rejoice Hymns”, we have sought to include a variety of new hymns and spiritual songs as well as the beloved standards. Our purpose has been to edify the body of Christ through a wide selection of biblically-based songs that enhance worship and personal growth in Christ. To “muse” is to meditate, and our desire is for the “mus”ic in this collection to be worthy of our meditation.

“And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord”. Psalm 40:3 (words of David, the sweet psalmist of Israel )

Our research in the selection process has been thorough, spanning over five years. Each song included has been carefully chosen according to biblical soundness of text and the musical ability to communicate the text. “Rejoice Hymns” is a uniting of hymns rich in doctrine and theology as well as spiritual song of Christian testimony. To elevate one over the other would be one-sided. It is not well balanced to lean heavily on doctrinal truth to the exclusion of personal testimony; neither is it wise to lean heavily on testimony to the exclusion of biblical doctrine….

The preface goes on to quote a preface written by C.H. Spurgeon in regards to the selection process for the publication of Metropolitan Tabernacle Hymnbook.
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Eric Wyse is an accomplished keyboardist, songwriter, church musician, and record producer. Since 1993, Eric has served as Organist St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church in Nashville, Tennessee, and was named Director of Music in 2001.

As a pianist, Eric has recorded the best-selling "Reflections" series of solo piano music for Christian Book Distributors, with sales in excess of 200,000 units. His organ work was featured on the worship project "City on a Hill - Sing Alleluia".

He is the co-writer for the modern hymn, "Wonderful, Merciful Savior," penned in 1989 with his wife, Dawn Rodgers. Recorded by numerous Christian artists including Selah, Phillips Craig & Dean, Kari Jobe, Anthony Evans, Kathy Troccoli, Travis Cottrell, and Clay Cross, the song received a 2002 Gospel Music Association Dove Award nomination for “Inspirational Song of the Year”. It appears in many new hymnals, including Rejoice Hymns (Majesty Music, 2011), Songs of Worship and Praise (2010, Taylor Publications), The Baptist Hymnal (2008, LifeWay Worship), Hymns for a Pilgrim People (GIA/NAACC, 2007), and Christian Life Hymnal (Hendrickson, 2006). Other songs written by Eric include "Lamb of God (Angus Dei)" recorded by BeBo Norman and his setting of the Lord's Prayer, "Our Father in Heaven", which is gaining acceptance in churches across the country.

An award-winning producer and consultant in recording and video production, Eric has worked with a variety of artists, including Keith & Kristyn Getty, The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir, CeCe Winans, Amy Grant, Donnie McClurkin, and Hee Haw’s LuLu Roman. In 2007, he produced a critically acclaimed full-length London recording of Handel's Messiah with British conductor John Rutter, featuring The Cambridge Singers & Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. Eric is married to Dawn Rodgers and resides in Brentwood, Tennessee. They have two teenage children. A native of Brattleboro, Vermont, Eric studied piano, organ, and church music at Cedarville University (Ohio), completing his undergraduate studies at Belmont University (Nashville) with a BS in Liberal Studies. He is currently purusing a Masters of Church Music at Lee University (Cleveland, TN).

http://www.scoreexch...ofiles/ericwyse

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Keith & Kristyn Getty have a very positive influence on Christian music ...


Is this a positive influence:

[media=]


This song is included in the Rejoice Hymns hymn book. This video is available on the Getty's website. Edited by brosmith
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Is this a positive influence:

This song is included in the Rejoice Hymns hymn book. This video is available on the Getty's website.

My point is that many of their hymns can serve the church when they are separated from the "entertainment" in which they are presented in the link. It sounds good when sung with a piano or organ. Would you sing this hymn if it were by Wesley or Watts - or Newton? It's a lot better than the hymnbook staple "Onward Christian Soldiers."

1. O church arise, & put your armour on
hear the call of Christ our captain
for now the weak can say that they are strong
in the strength that God has given.
With shield of faith, & belt of truth
we'll stand against the devil's lies;
an army bold, whose battle cry is love,
reaching out to those in darkness

2. Our call to war, to love the captive soul
But to rage against the captor;
And with the sword that makes the wounded whole,
We will fight with faith and valour.
When faced with trials on every side
We know the outcome is secure,
And Christ will have the prize for which He died,
An inheritance of nations.

3. Come see the cross, where love and mercy meet,
As the Son of God is stricken;
Then see His foes lie crushed beneath His feet,
For the Conqueror has risen!
And as the stone is rolled away,
And Christ emerges from the grave,
This victory march continues till the day
Every eye and heart shall see Him.

4. So Spirit, come, put strength in every stride,
Give grace for every hurdle,
That we may run with faith to win the prize
Of a servant good and faithful.
As saints of old still line the way,
Retelling triumphs of His grace,
We hear their calls, and hunger for the day
When with Christ we stand in glory.
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Eric Wyse is an accomplished keyboardist, songwriter, church musician, and record producer...

...He is currently purusing a Masters of Church Music at Lee University (Cleveland, TN).


He's the organist/Music Director in an Episcopalian church...spans the gamut with who he collaborates with...and goes charismatic for his Master Degree. :icon_confused:
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My point is that many of their hymns can serve the church when they are separated from the "entertainment" in which they are presented in the link. It sounds good when sung with a piano or organ. Would you sing this hymn if it were by Wesley or Watts - or Newton? It's a lot better than the hymnbook staple "Onward Christian Soldiers."


Your point is contrary to sound doctrine. The Getty's are providing and promoting contemporary Christian music dressed up as "modern hymns". They are entertainers providing so-called "spiritual" entertainment but nothing spiritual (from a Biblical perspective) will ever come from such a polluted fountain. And by the way, just because a song "sounds good" when played on the piano or organ does not necessarily mean that the song is good. Many rock songs "sound good" when listened to by the carnal person.

Matthew 7:18 - "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

Matthew 12:33 - "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." Edited by brosmith
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One of the problems here is the lack of consistency. Standards used to judge modern music isn't also used to judge older songs. While song writers of the past are given great leeway in regards to how far off the author was biblically on many things, the song writers of today are held to standards stricter than what some pastors are held to.

If a song writer is born again in Christ and they write a song that its biblically sound, how can that song not be sang in a manner glorifying to God? I've heard Amazing Grace played to bluegrass, Southern Gospel, pop, rock and even heavy metal. True enough, I wouldn't want to listen to Amazing Grace played in some of those styles, and some I think are not proper for church, but that doesn't take away from the fact that, if sang properly with decent instrumentation (or none) the song can be sang in a Christ-honouring manner.

As I've read through Baptist history and the history of Christianity in general, especially with regards to England and America, I've found that most of the arguments used today against modern music were previously used against the songs, instruments and music style used by Moody and Sankey back in their day as they first went forth in that manner around America and England.

Many of the songs we consider great to sing today were not well met when they first came forth. Even so, today we embrace them even though the conservative Christians of that time rejected them for very similar, or even the same reasons some reject some modern music today.

This lack of having a solid standard that is consistently applied is one of the reasons for so much confusion in the area of music and why there is such a variety of music, both accepted and rejected, through all of Christianity, throughout Baptist churches and even throughout the IFB churches.

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Matthew 7:18 - "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."


Agreed - so when we look at fruit of the Gettys - the words of that hymn, is it a good, edifying Biblical hymn? If the words are good - as they are, the Gettys are not corrupt by that test Jesus has given us.

The fact that we agree that we do not like the style of singing & musical accompaniment may simply be a matter of our taste - (Pharisaical taste?)

Let's put it to a Biblical band:
Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmame
nt
of his power.

2
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excelle
nt
greatness.

3
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instrume
nt
s and organs.

5
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6
Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.
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