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She was my principal in 8th and 9th grade in WVA. No, I'm not familiar with Dr. Dalton or Pastor Camp.


WVA? Wow I didn't know she was a principal, very neat :)

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Inspiration and or preservation used in this context, seems to mean very close to the same thing. In either case it would mean God had a hand in it. would it not?

I never heard of Mr. Ruckman until after I got a computer in 2002, & it may be I heard of him on this forum after December 14, 2005. And I would have nothing to do with him, I've read about him, & his teachings, they just do not fit in very well with Bible teachings. And I have listened to at least 2 of his sermons, I did not care the least bit for his teachings. I still use the name Baptist, never threw it out, although there has been many men, & churches, that has brought shame on the name Baptist. I remember a few years ago several churches started dropping the name Baptist from their churches, caliming it was a hinderance to gaining members.

The Mormons reinvented Jesus, claiming He was not born a deity, that He became good enough to become a God, & the Mormons believe they to can be good enough to become Gods too. Yet, I still think the name Jesus is the most precious name under the sun.

What I'm getting at is I can't understand why someone would not use KJB, KJV, King James Bible, or king James Version, which ever one it is you feel might be associated with him, fearing they people would connect you with that man. Your already going to be connected to him though the name Baptist, that is, unless you have dropped it as some, perhaps, even many have.

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Most people would not have heard of Ruckman were it not for the internet. I never heard of him until he was brought up here on OB.

Like LuAnne said, the main reason I use the term KJB is because I firmly believe the KJB isn't just another "version", which is implied to many when they see KJV or read King James Version.

One of the biggest points Muslims make is that Christians don't even know what they believe because their "supposed holy book" comes in dozens of versions that don't even agree with one another. Dealing with Muslims in a university setting in the 80s and 90s led me to be sure to always refer to the Scriptures I carried as the King James Bible, the KJB, never using the term "version".

What Ruckman has to do with this topic or conversation I don't know, and frankly I don't really care what Ruckman has to say because he has obviously gone way out there on many points and isn't deserving of being paid any heed.

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Irishman - The two passages clearly teach inspiration being with the original penmen, not with people who copy or translate. Take your heretical double inspiration to another board. It is not welcome here.


Typical answer i expect from you. You should drop the "pastor" and just call yourself "J".

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Typical answer i expect from you. You should drop the "pastor" and just call yourself "J".


Very hurtful and un-Christlike. I wouldn't mind if you stopped posting. Your replies are unecessary and ridiculous.

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I believe there are no errors in the KJB. Does that make me a Ruckmanite even though I don't read his books? We need to be careful with how we label people. It can easily become sin.


Thats not only a Ruckmanite teaching. I'm talking stuff like re-inspiration, correcting the TR with the KJV and translating the Bible into other languages (like Spanish, etc) using the KJV instead of the TR. Edited by Melodys

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Very hurtful and un-Christlike. I wouldn't mind if you stopped posting. Your replies are unecessary and ridiculous.



So was the one he was replying to, the reply Pastorj made instigated Marty's reply, Pastorj
comment was uncalled for.

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So was the one he was replying to, the reply Pastorj made instigated Marty's reply, Pastorj
comment was uncalled for.


I don't believe pointing out error is wrong... I think the childish response from Irish had no point but to cut.

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I don't believe pointing out error is wrong... I think the childish response from Irish had no point but to cut.


No, I don't believe it was proper, neither the way he stated it, or I would not have commented about it.

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The heretical teaching of double inspiration goes contrary to this board. We have had numerous individuals come through that spouted this nonsense and have driven a number of good people away.

Preservation and Inspiration are not the same and are not interchangeable. God inspired His Word through the original penmen. God then preserved his Word for every generation. These are two entirely separate doctrines. What Irishman and Ruckman suggest is that God re-inspired the KJV translators when they penned the KJV. They elevate the KJV above the greek and the Hebrew. Ruckman believes that if you don't get saved through the KJV, then you didn't get saved. He believes that all the people of the world need to learn English because the KJV is the only "True" Bible.

If you compare translations in Spanish, French, and any other language and then have them translated to English, you will find that they are not word for word with the KJV. When you translate from one language to another, you lose things. God inspired His Word in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It has been preserved for every generation through a number of translations over time. Each of those translation can be held up and called "The Inspired Word of God"

I love my KJV and don't own another translation. However, if a group of Godly men would make a modern translation, I would consider it and if it passes the evaluation process that the KJV went through, could hold it up and call it the Word of God also. This will never happen, because good men who could do this aren't interested, which is fine with me. The problem with the MV's are they base their translation on a corrupted or perverted text.

If you hold to this heretical teaching of double inspiration, which has been labeled Ruckmanism (after it's founder), take it somewhere else. We don't want it here.

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For the record, I DO NOT hold to double inspiration, I merely said that the Bible is not clear that there was only a one-time inspiration. I didn't say I believe it; in fact, in my original post, I said that "I say this merely to make a point" if you care to go back and read it.

You crusaders who think you have to moderate the forum need to leave that up to the mods, and mind your own business, especially when you make accusations that you have no idea about.

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Irishman, I am a moderator. As far as I am concerned, you have made your position clear. However, take a moment and spell out your position on the KJV, preservation and Inspiration so that we don't get confused any more.

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May I jump in here?

Two ends of the same pendulum:

There are people who hold the belief that the King James Version is different from the King James Bible. I can appreciate their passion on this, but there exists no scripture to support this argument. From this viewpoint arise people who discount the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic and put the King James on a level superior to what God-breathed. This usually limits the learning which can be attained because one English word may be, and often is, translated from different words in the texts, each one with a different denotation.

There are others who see no difference between the King James and any other version. I can understand what they are saying, but no scripture exists to support this theology either. The adherence to this gives cause for people to reject the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic in order to find a translation which supports what they want to believe God said. Learning here is limited also, because there is no reason to come up to the level of God's Word and Will, but rather bring God down to the level of the individual.

In this forum, the King James is the Bible, Version, Translation, Book, Scripture, Canon of choice. If anyone has been to other forums, I am sure you have noticed the multiplicity of versions. A library of different bibles is needed just to keep up with the talk, as everyone uses a different bible it seems. Here, at least we can all be talking about the same thing.

When people can re-translate willy-nilly, the door is open for additional books, chapters, and verses to be added. Joseph Smith is an excellent example of this.
When people put the English above the first languages, the door is open for telling God He got it wrong the first time. Ruckman exemplifies this logic.

I appreciate everyone having zeal for what they believe. But frankly, the scripture doesn't say 'English' anywhere. We all use King James here. Can't we leave it there? Are there not enough challenges the adversary comes at us with, rather than dealing with such an item?

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I do not care for the modem version simply because they do not teach the same things as the old KJV, or KJB. The newer versions dose help the false teachers build a stronger case for their false teachings. Especially those that preach & teach out of nearly every MV's that's out there.

Plus, there a REAL GOOD REASON why this site hold to only the Old Black Book that I grew up with.

At one point I posted on a site for ex-Catholics that changed to Baptist. They held to the same 'Old Black Book' as well. They had man Catholics come to that forum seemly trying to convert them back. It tickled me for most of them would post Scriptures from nearly every MV's, but they quickly learned that they would not be around long if they did not abide by the rule of the forum, post only from that good 'Old Black Book.' And yes, while I was there they did have some Catholics repent, separate & come out from among them.

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It seems the OP is letting her fear of one man's reputation decide what to believe about the KJV. This is not smart. This would be like letting our opinion about the deity of Christ be effected by the Pope. The Pope believes Jesus is the Son of God does that mean we shouldn't?

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It seems the OP is letting her fear of one man's reputation decide what to believe about the KJV. This is not smart. This would be like letting our opinion about the deity of Christ be effected by the Pope. The Pope believes Jesus is the Son of God does that mean we shouldn't?


You are absolutely correct Wilchbla. There have been many in my church labeled Ruckmanites because they hold to KJV only. We are also labeled legalists because our ladies dress modestly with dresses below the knee when seated, and we have been labeled a cult by Catholics and various others that don’t like the fact that we hold to everything written in the Bible. Did you know that the Mormons use the KJV as their Bible of choice? Perhaps soon we will be called Mormons as well.

From what I have witnessed, those that are not KJV only (and this includes Christian colleges) are not KJV only because they want the freedom to be able to water down scripture that goes against what they personally believe. I cannot count how many times I have heard “this is an unfortunate translation in the KJV and should really read this way”. It must be an onerous responsibility to have more knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual understanding than the 47 KJV translators that were the best society had to offer at the time in all of these attributes.

My belief that the KJV, KJB, King James Version, etc. is the purely preserved inspired word of God for the English language has nothing to do with Ruckman. I tried reading his “Church History” and could only get to chapter 7 before I had enough of Ruckman for a lifetime. I believe it is the purely preserved inspired word of God because God said He would preserve His word. God said it, I believe it, and that settles it.

Here is a small (edited) portion of a cults curriculum I have been developing that I think clearly states my take on the preservation of the KJV.:

It is becoming increasingly prevalent today, even within Christian churches and colleges, to hear that the scriptures were only pure and inspired as written in the original manuscripts. Since that time error has crept in and there is no longer any truly error-free Bible available. Not surprisingly this is the position taken by every cult that claims any ties whatsoever to Jesus Christ and/or the God of the Bible. There is abundant evidence out there that proves this is not the case and that the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible is the purely preserved word of God. I don’t have time to get into all the physical proof available that points to the KJV as God’s inspired word, so we will simply point to what God has to say about His word and let faith do the rest.

First let’s look at God’s promise to us that he will keep His word pure for us:

Psalms 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Here is God, giving us His word that He will keep His pure words preserved forever. These two verses alone should settle the matter for any true Christian. You either believe God is capable of preserving His word as promised, or you don’t.

As anyone that has been a Christian for any length of time knows, Jesus Christ Himself is identified in John 1:1 as The Word:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Note that not only was Jesus Christ the Word, but the Word was also “in the beginning”. So before anything else, the Word was already established. This can be seen in Genesis 3 where we see Eve discussing the Word with the serpent:

Genesis 3:1-3
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Like so many today, Eve mistranslates the Word of God, but you can plainly see that the Word was in the beginning. We also see in Galatians that Abraham received the Word, and by faith in that Word was blessed:

Galatians 3:8-9
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

So if we are to be honest, the Word of God (even the gospel) was with us long before it was ever written in stone or any other medium, and as Psalms 12:7 states; it will be preserved forever.

As we saw in John 1:1 Jesus Christ IS the Word and it is His name that is set above all creation:

Philippians 2:9-11
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Every knee will bow at the name of Jesus Christ, and yet there is one thing that is even esteemed higher than the name of Jesus Christ: His Word.

Psalms 138:2
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

It would be hard to fathom a God that would not preserve that which He has set above His own Son. English is the international language of business and is the most common 2nd language for those in countries where it is not the primary. It is also the primary language of those countries that send out the most missionaries. It make sense that God would preserve His word in English...,and look how many revivals we would have missed out on without the KJV!

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It's already been mentioned, but had the Doctrinal Statement of this board been read, it would have answered Melody's question as to what is believed here at Online Baptist.

I'm not a member of many forums (only three), and I carefully read their Doctrinal Statement before joining them. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that people won't infiltrate with bad doctrine, but at least you know that the moderators are on your side.

Let me correct something...I'm a member of four forums. My first exposure to any forum was the FFF :hide::thumbdown::runforhills:

Boy, was that a mistake...but it taught me a lesson to really check out a forum before joining!

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2 Timothy 3 says this:

    16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible does not say "was given," but "is given." INspiration means God breathed into the Scriptures. He inspired the original Scriptures, breathed life into them according to Hebrews 4:12, and they never lost that inspiration - the Scriptures didn't EXpire. I do not believe the King James Bible or any other Bible/version was reinspired - but that any true and faithful translation is still inspired. Therefore the Bible I hold in my hand - the King James Bible - is just as inspired as what God originally gave to Moses, David, Isaiah, the NT Apostles, etc.

P.S. Scriptures means writings - God inspired His Word (of course, that includes each individual word), not the paper or particular manuscripts. In the King James Bible (and yes, in the TR), we still have those words, therefore my King James Bible is inspired because it is still the Word (and words) of God.

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We lost the original "10 commandments" in Exodus 32. And what of the originals that Jeremiah penned in Jeremiah 36....gone forever. I guess we'll never know what was truly in those inspired words. How sad.

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I wonder if the originals existed when that verse was written? Where was the NIV, ASV, ABC, etc.? We still have an inspired Bible in the KJB.


The doctrine for the need of theses versions you mentioned was not invented until recent years, & the men that needed the version had not been born. We get these new versions as a need for different teaching arise from the birth of new doctrine.

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