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The pastor preached on tithing.

Now, he knows my wife and I don't tithe. We do not believe it is a New Testament teaching for Christians. The Apostles never taught it in any of their epistles.

Now, mind you it is not that he preached on tithing that upset us, he has preached on tithing in the past. What upset us is an out and out lie he told in his pulpit.

He told the congregation that he does not know who tithes and who does not.

The fact is, he knows my wife and I don't tithe. He has cornered me in the past and told me we need to start tithing. So his statement that he doesn't know who tithes and who does not was an out and out lie.

Truth be known, no one in the Church tithes... even when they put 10% of their money in one of those white and green "Tithes" envelopes, so the whole sermon was built upon a lie.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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The pastor preached on tithing.

Now, he knows my wife and I don't tithe. We do not believe it is a New Testament teaching for Christians. The Apostles never taught it in any of their epistles.

Now, mind you it is not that he preached on tithing that upset us, he has preached on tithing in the past. What upset us is an out and out lie he told in his pulpit.

He told the congregation that he does not know who tithes and who does not.

The fact is, he knows my wife and I don't tithe. He has cornered me in the past and told me we need to start tithing. So his statement that he doesn't know who tithes and who does not was an out and out lie.

Truth be known, no one in the Church tithes... even when they put 10% of their money in one of those white and green "Tithes" envelopes, so the whole sermon was built upon a lie.


I agree, there's many that claims to tithe, that do not, even though they claim to, while calling for everyone else to do as they do.


I wonder, how hard it is for the rich man that makes millions every year to give 10% of his millions to the church he is a member of?

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The pastor preached on tithing.

Now, he knows my wife and I don't tithe. We do not believe it is a New Testament teaching for Christians. The Apostles never taught it in any of their epistles.

Now, mind you it is not that he preached on tithing that upset us, he has preached on tithing in the past. What upset us is an out and out lie he told in his pulpit.

He told the congregation that he does not know who tithes and who does not.

The fact is, he knows my wife and I don't tithe. He has cornered me in the past and told me we need to start tithing. So his statement that he doesn't know who tithes and who does not was an out and out lie.

Truth be known, no one in the Church tithes... even when they put 10% of their money in one of those white and green "Tithes" envelopes, so the whole sermon was built upon a lie.


Well if your as outspoken with your opinions on the subject at your church as you are on this forum it is little wonder he knows. Perhaps he merely means he does not count or generally see who gives what in the offerings. Many pastors try to avoid that for obvious reasons when possible. Makes it easier on them and on others as well.

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Well if your as outspoken with your opinions on the subject at your church as you are on this forum it is little wonder he knows. Perhaps he merely means he does not count or generally see who gives what in the offerings. Many pastors try to avoid that for obvious reasons when possible. Makes it easier on them and on others as well.
Actually, I am not outspoken at Church. The pastor sits at a place where he sees most of what goes on it the congregation. I doubt he can see the amount that everyone puts in the plate.

We only give cash, and we do not put it in envelopes. The only way he could have known that we don't tithe is for him to have discussed the finances with our treasurer. And he did indeed corner me in the past and tell me I needed to start tithing.

Since he knows that I don't tithe, I believe he knows if others are not tithing as well.

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*Groan* Not again. This thread will be locked soon, I imagine.

If you think your pastor is a liar, then maybe you should find a church you are happy with. Although I will say that you should be careful...if your pastor is truly God's chosen pastor for your church, God will not be happy with anyone who calls His man a liar.

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Just because the pastor of your church knows that YOU don't tithe doesn't mean that he knows what EVERYONE gives or doesn't give.....
And since we don't really know all the details to when/why/how the pastor "cornered" you about "tithing" we really can't comment too much....there are two sides to every story you know!

We know what you believe about it....why do keep bringing this subject up?

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I want to add that ANYONE who has THIS LARGE of a personal problem with tithing, pastoral salary, or any other giving issues has a bad attitude and needs to get right with God.

Its okay not not believe in tithing...its okay to have personal beliefs in other areas...but when it becomes an all-consuming dissatisfaction, then it becomes a personal problem...not the pastor's problem...not a forum's problem...and not anyone else's problem.

Its always safest to be generous with God. Always. I would rather give too much than give too little. And I dare say if your pastor wants you to tithe, it is for YOUR benefit...NOT his. My husband, the few times he has preached on giving, tells people over and over that the preaching is for THEIR benefit, so God will bless THEIR lives....not his own benefit.

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*Groan* Not again. This thread will be locked soon, I imagine.

If you think your pastor is a liar, then maybe you should find a church you are happy with. Although I will say that you should be careful...if your pastor is truly God's chosen pastor for your church, God will not be happy with anyone who calls His man a liar.
Kitagirl, it is obvious he lied. You were not there, I was. My wife was.

Do you really believe God wants His people to be led by a deceitful pastor? Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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I want to add that ANYONE who has THIS LARGE of a personal problem with tithing, pastoral salary, or any other giving issues has a bad attitude and needs to get right with God.

Its okay not not believe in tithing...its okay to have personal beliefs in other areas...but when it becomes an all-consuming dissatisfaction, then it becomes a personal problem...not the pastor's problem...not a forum's problem...and not anyone else's problem.

Its always safest to be generous with God. Always. I would rather give too much than give too little. And I dare say if your pastor wants you to tithe, it is for YOUR benefit...NOT his. My husband, the few times he has preached on giving, tells people over and over that the preaching is for THEIR benefit, so God will bless THEIR lives....not his own benefit.
The problem is not with either my giving or my wife's. We give to the needs of the Church when we have the money to give. But before we give to the Church, we provide for the family first. If any provide not for his own house he is worse than an infidel.

I will not neglect my family's needs for the Church. God's Word tells me they are first and foremost when it comes to meeting needs.

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You were not there, I was. My wife was.

Do you really believe God wants His people to be led by a deceitful pastor?

You are right, we were not there and we do not know your pastor. That is why this topic is really makes no sense being posted here.

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Actually, I am not outspoken at Church. The pastor sits at a place where he sees most of what goes on it the congregation. I doubt he can see the amount that everyone puts in the plate.

We only give cash, and we do not put it in envelopes. The only way he could have known that we don't tithe is for him to have discussed the finances with our treasurer. And he did indeed corner me in the past and tell me I needed to start tithing.

Since he knows that I don't tithe, I believe he knows if others are not tithing as well.


He may well set in such a place yet never pay attention to who puts what in the collection plate.

In past years I've taken up the collection, that was before I was a pastor, & I never paid no attention to what was put in by who, & I still don't.

MHO, he should never corner a member telling them they should tithe, he actually should never know if you do or not, unless you tell him.

And yes, I know, some pastors that feels everything is their business & they lord over everyone & everything. IMHO that is a no no.

I was asked in my interview what I thought about tithing, & a pastor preaching on money very often. My answer was, no, I do not believe in tithing, & no, I don't feel a pastor should preach on money very often, but there would be appropriated times for that, & it should not be avoided. We are to be cheerful givers, & we should support our church, & the mission God gives it, & we are not to go outside of our church soliciting, begging, others church members, lost people, to support this church.

Its unbelievable at the number of churches that are soliciting money for everyone & anyone that comes along, just nearly begging.

I recall a well know TV & radio pastor a few years ago, he stated, "Our church is going though a rough time, our expenses have been way up, I'm begging anyone out there to please help support this church, we are hurting.

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Thers


Kitagirl, it is obvious he lied. You were not there, I was. My wife was.

Do you really believe God wants His people to be led by a deceitful pastor?


There is not a pastor in this world who has not lied, sinned nor will there ever be. Thank God for His grace that supersedes that of disgruntled church members as I am sure if stoning were still allowed there would lie a dead and stoned Pastor in many a church!!

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Thers


There is not a pastor in this world who has not lied, sinned nor will there ever be. Thank God for His grace that supersedes that of disgruntled church members as I am sure if stoning were still allowed there would lie a dead and stoned Pastor in many a church!!
Paul told Timothy the bishop is to be above reproach.

Well, when they out and out lie from the pulpit, they are not above reproach.

And are therefore unqualified to fill the position. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Not sure that it Matthew 18 should come into play or not.

The pastor lied openly, he should be rebuked openly.

And did not Paul warn people in his epistles of certain people?

The thing is, the pastor is on his way out the door. He announced in February that he has accepted an assistant pastor position in a bigger Church in another state. He even made the statement in his sermon Sunday morning "You don't want to tithe? I don't care! I'm not going to be here long anyway."

The sermon was a rebuke, not just to me, but to others that were not tithing for whatever reason. And there were visitors present that morning. Sure didn't make the Church look good rebuking its members before them.

He tried to instill fear, saying that the devourer might make your car break down, and then quoting Malachi's passage about the devourer.

Last time I checked, the devourer in Malachi was locusts, not a faulty fan belt.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Not sure that it Matthew 18 should come into play or not.

The pastor lied openly, he should be rebuked openly.

And did not Paul warn people in his epistles of certain people?

The thing is, the pastor is on his way out the door. He announced in February that he has accepted an assistant pastor position in a bigger Church in another state. He even made the statement in his sermon Sunday morning "You don't want to tithe? I don't care! I'm not going to be here long anyway."

The sermon was a rebuke, not just to me, but to others that were not tithing for whatever reason. And there were visitors present that morning. Sure didn't make the Church look good rebuking its members before them.

He tried to instill fear, saying that the devourer might make your car break down, and then quoting Malachi's passage about the devourer.

Last time I checked, the devourer in Malachi was locusts, not a faulty fan belt.

It sounds as if your pastor didn't handle this well, but if you are getting a new pastor soon might it be better to just ride this out and see who the next pastor is?

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That is probably what we will have to do.

I just hate sitting under a pastor that knows a lie but tells it anyway.

It hinders worship.

I understand your concerns.

This is why looking for a new church home or selecting a new pastor for a church should be done patiently and with Scripture in hand. (Not speaking directly to you, but in general, as this issue raises this)

Some churches go through pastor after pastor because they rush to grab the first pleasant pastor they can get without fully asking him questions with regards to his own testimony, view of Scripture and where he stands on doctrine and such matters. An area church found themselves in this position for several years. The last time they booted their pastor they called our pastor and asked if he could help them figure out what they were doing wrong and how to make corrections. Our pastor told them first of all, they should make sure any prospective pastor is actually a born again believer in Christ before they proceed any further in their interviews for pastor. It's a shame that even has to be mentioned, but there seems to be more unsaved pastors out there than saved ones. Too many people have the idea that if a man is a pastor, that must mean he's right with God, but that's not the case.

The same is true when looking for a new church home. There are a few around here who go from one church to another because they base their selection more on emotion and "feeling" rather than learning what the a churches statement of faith says, learning if the pastor is born again and what stands he takes on key matters.

It can be difficult dealing with a pastor who is off, especially if they are way off. I've been there before. The two most egregious times, with one I left that church, with the other I tried talking with the pastor to no avail, as did two others and eventually all three of us met with the pastor; again to no avail. We remained in that church until we found another.

Thankfully, we have a good church home now with a solid pastor and associate pastor.

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Actually we should all be beyond reproach, but we are not! You should go to your preacher and talk this out instead of posting it on a general forum. that may be worse than a lie! I do believe in tithing, as we hashed this out before several times, but the fact is, and the real problem is, you criticizing the preacher to us. Most of us don't know him, but if we were to meet him, our minds have already been affected against him. I have lied too, sometimes deliberately, but I cannot change that now, I just go on in the grace of God.

If you don't wish to tithe, keep your money and do whatever you want with it, but when the government demands his portion (more than a tithe) try bucking him for awhile. (The government lies to get your money too, and we are made to suppose that it is beyond reproach)

Edited by irishman

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Actually we should all be beyond reproach, but we are not! You should go to your preacher and talk this out instead of posting it on a general forum. that may be worse than a lie! I do believe in tithing, as we hashed this out before several times, but the fact is, and the real problem is, you criticizing the preacher to us. Most of us don't know him, but if we were to meet him, our minds have already been affected against him. I have lied too, sometimes deliberately, but I cannot change that now, I just go on in the grace of God.

If you don't wish to tithe, keep your money and do whatever you want with it, but when the government demands his portion (more than a tithe) try bucking him for awhile. (The government lies to get your money too, and we are made to suppose that it is beyond reproach)
I assume that you are speaking of taxes when you say the government gets my money?

BZZZTTTT.... I don't pay yearly taxes. Because I am disabled, I am not required to pay yearly taxes. I do pay a personal property tax on our Pathfinder, but it is far, far less than 10%. The largest tax that might apply to me is food tax, which is 7%.

But the fact remains, I am not required to tithe... even though my pastor and others preach that I am under a curse for not tithing. The curse for not tithing was under the Law. I am not under the Law. The Apostle Paul said that those who would put themselves under the Law are cursed if they do not continue in all the Law.

I am just curious, since most people argue that Abram's tithe to Melchizedek was prior to the Law and that is proof that the tithe was established, why do preachers focus on a tithe of money and not on the other things that Abram tithed? Abram obviously tithed from clothing he recovered from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer and the six kings that were with him.

Why just a tithe of money if Abram's tithe was a principle that we are supposed to live by?

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StandingFirm, you really need to give this topic a rest. You were making the same arguments when I was on this board over 4 years ago. Arguing about whether it should be called tithing or not is about as useful as arguing about the Gap Theory. Most mature, sincere Christians are probably giving at least 10% or more whether they call it tithes, offerings, gifts, or whatever else. Is God going to look on my offering less than yours because I happen to still use the word "tithe". If so then I guess the blood of Christ isn't all sufficient (No disrespect intended, I am only making a point). Or perhaps I will get to heaven and God will say, "Here I had 10 crowns for you, but you insisted on calling your offerings "tithes". I am sorry, you can only have 5 crowns". Somehow I don't see that as likely. Perhaps the missionaries that are supported through my tithes and offerings are really only effective with that portion of my money that goes in as offerings and the tithe portion is just wasted away. Again, I don't think that is likely.

Give with a joyful heart unto the Lord and He will accept it whatever you call it. You can call it offerings all you want; if it is offered insincerely, it is of no affect in Heaven.

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StandingFirm, you really need to give this topic a rest. You were making the same arguments when I was on this board over 4 years ago. Arguing about whether it should be called tithing or not is about as useful as arguing about the Gap Theory. Most mature, sincere Christians are probably giving at least 10% or more whether they call it tithes, offerings, gifts, or whatever else. Is God going to look on my offering less than yours because I happen to still use the word "tithe". If so then I guess the blood of Christ isn't all sufficient (No disrespect intended, I am only making a point). Or perhaps I will get to heaven and God will say, "Here I had 10 crowns for you, but you insisted on calling your offerings "tithes". I am sorry, you can only have 5 crowns". Somehow I don't see that as likely. Perhaps the missionaries that are supported through my tithes and offerings are really only effective with that portion of my money that goes in as offerings and the tithe portion is just wasted away. Again, I don't think that is likely.

Give with a joyful heart unto the Lord and He will accept it whatever you call it. You can call it offerings all you want; if it is offered insincerely, it is of no affect in Heaven.


:goodpost:

I second the request to give it a rest...(the tithing). The lying part is of more concern, but it really isn't ours - it's yours and Linda's, Standing (although I do understand your upset at lies from the pulpit...). If this pastor were staying there, I could see a possible discussion. But he's leaving, and taking his lies with him. Instead of using it as an excuse to bring tithing up yet again, maybe rejoice that God is moving him on. Perhaps your next pastor will agree with you about tithing, or at the very least won't preach about it.

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StandingFirm, you really need to give this topic a rest. You were making the same arguments when I was on this board over 4 years ago. Arguing about whether it should be called tithing or not is about as useful as arguing about the Gap Theory. Most mature, sincere Christians are probably giving at least 10% or more whether they call it tithes, offerings, gifts, or whatever else. Is God going to look on my offering less than yours because I happen to still use the word "tithe". If so then I guess the blood of Christ isn't all sufficient (No disrespect intended, I am only making a point). Or perhaps I will get to heaven and God will say, "Here I had 10 crowns for you, but you insisted on calling your offerings "tithes". I am sorry, you can only have 5 crowns". Somehow I don't see that as likely. Perhaps the missionaries that are supported through my tithes and offerings are really only effective with that portion of my money that goes in as offerings and the tithe portion is just wasted away. Again, I don't think that is likely.

Give with a joyful heart unto the Lord and He will accept it whatever you call it. You can call it offerings all you want; if it is offered insincerely, it is of no affect in Heaven.
You may be correct that most Christians are giving 10% or more. But for what reason are they giving that 10%? Is it because they have been taught from the pulpit that that is what the Lord requires of them? If so, they are giving for the wrong reasons. They are giving due to compulsion... or coercion.

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    • By Standing Firm In Christ
      And there was war in Heaven: God opposed the Holy Spirit.

      Wait a minute!! What Bible are you reading from? Where is that found in the Bible?

      Now that I've got your attention, ...

      The answer my friends, is it is found, not in the Bible, but rather it is found in the pulpits of many Churches around the world today.

      Oh, the preacher may not use those exact words. But he might as well use them. Those words are no different than than the words he speaks when he tells his congregation that God requires them to tithe their money to the Church.


      I have searched every instance of tithing where it is commanded in the Bible and, amazingly, I find the only people God ever commanded to tithe were those who lived in Israel.

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      "No greater burden than these necessary things." Tithing is not mentioned as one of those "necessary things."

      When a pastor teaches his congregation that God requires a tithe of their money, that pastor is guilty of pitting God in opposition to the decision of the Holy Ghost in Acts 15.

      Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

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      1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

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      It the command is not in the Bible, we can come to no other conclusion than that it is a man-made command and not a God-ordained directive.

      Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

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      Now, as I said, many pastors have an honest heart. Many will tell their congregations that the word “MEAT” in verse 10 is referring to food. Conversely, many pastors are deceptive and teach their congregations that Malachi 3:8-12 is speaking of money being the titheable item that God demands.

      Further, those same teachers and preachers that teach that Malachi 3:8-10 is speaking of a monetary tithe also teach that if the church member will tithe his or her money, God promises to open the windows and pour out a blessing upon them.

      There, the minister is using both deception and seduction in order to cause his flock to put 10% of their hard-earned money into a white envelope and subsequently into the coffers of the church they attend. He first deceives them into believing that a command given to ancient Israel is also meant for the Church. Secondly, he deceives them into believing the command is for monetary tithes when the Law specifically stated that the tithes were to be agricultural in nature. And lastly, he seduces them into believing they are going to be blessed by God if they “OBey” his command to tithe.

      Another deception put forth by the pastor is manifest when the pastor says that “to the storehouse” means “to the Church.” Friends, the storehouse that God was speaking of in the Malachi passage was not the Church… it was a storehouse within the Temple at Jersualem. God never moved that storehouse to any location. Nor did He give Gentile Churches authority to set up their own “storehouses” all over the world. There is not one instance in the post-crucifixion epistles that instruct Bishops, Elders or Pastors to set up storehouses and require monetary tithes of their flocks.

      Do not be deceived. Open your Bibles and study out the passages on tithing. When you do, you will find that the pastor that told you to “bring the tithes of money as commanded by God” was deceiving you and seducing you with promises that God never gave to you.

      In reality, God isn’t demanding the tithe of the church member. The deceptive and seductive leader is.
    • By Standing Firm In Christ
      It is a Biblical fact that we have Scripture that commands tithing to Levites, but not one single Scripture that states one is to tithe to a pastor, elder, or bishop of a New Testament Church.
      Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
      Here, men that die receive tithes. Who are the men that die that receive tithes? The sons of Levi…
      Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
      But there He receiveth them. Receives what? Tithes. What tithes? The tithes that the sons of Levi receive.
      And what tithes do the sons of Levi receive? The tithes according to the Law.
      Leviticus 27:30-34 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed. These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.
      1. They receive the tithes of the seed of the land. This is speaking of garden produce. Food for the sustenance of the workers of the Temple and for their sustenance at home as well.
      2. They receive tithes of the fruit of the tree. This is speaking of that which grows on trees, such as pomegranates, dates and figs. Again, for the sustenance of the workers of the Temple and for their sustenance at home.
      3. They receive tithes of the livestock in Israel. Animals born in the flocks and herds, were to be tithed from. Every tenth animal to pass under the counting rod.
      4. They were to receive tithes of the children of Israel. There was no command for peoples of Gentile nations to travel to Israel to tithe. Nor was there a command for peoples of Gentile nations to tithe once God gave the tithe to the Levites.
      Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
      Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
      Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD’S heave offering to Aaron the priest.
      The tithes “according to the Law” were agricultural.” There is no other type of tithe commanded in the Word of God.



      The tithes “He receiveth” were the tithes “according to the Law.” That Law was abandoned in 70 A.D., when General Titus and his army marched on Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple. The sons of Levi, who worked the Temple, could no longer fulfill their OBligations at the Temple. Tithing stopped when Jerusalem was overtaken by General Titus.

      God is not the one commanding or demanding the monetary tithe that men preach today. That requirement is found nowhere in the pages of God's Holy Word. Rather, it was invented by sinful man many centuries after the Apostles had all died.
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