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Requirement For Salvation?

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John 8:21 (KJV) Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Who was Jesus talking about when He said "if ye believe not that I am He..."? I believe He was speaking of His deity here in this passage.

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John 8:21 (KJV) Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Who was Jesus talking about when He said "if ye believe not that I am He..."? I believe He was speaking of His deity here in this passage.

No doubt, in order to be saved one must believe in the biblical Jesus. If one says they believe in Jesus, but don't believe Him to be God, they are not believing upon the Jesus of Scripture.

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No doubt, in order to be saved one must believe in the biblical Jesus. If one says they believe in Jesus, but don't believe Him to be God, they are not believing upon the Jesus of Scripture.
So true.

Too many are fooled into following a false Christ this day and age. Jesus said many would come in His name saying, "Lo, He is here, or Lo, He is there" He went on to say, (and I'm paraphrasing) "Don't believe them".

If the attributes and characteristics of the Christ they are presenting don't line up with the attributes and characteristics of the Christ of the Bible, reject the Christ they are presenting. They know not God, nor His Christ.

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Then because the appelative "lord" is used, that says someone must believe Jesus is God? Then what about where Sarah calls Abraham lord? Does that make Abraham God? (I am speaking as a fool. I know Abraham is not God.)


The answer to your question is found several times within this thread.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)

The title of Lord is a title of Deity! How do we know this?

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

This verse states clearly that the ONE LORD is Jesus Christ, and yet we find that the ONE LORD is also God the Father.

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (Mark 12:29)

Jesus is citing the Shema found in Deuteronomy 6:4, and is referring to God His Father as the ONE LORD. 1 Corinthians 8:6 also clearly states that the ONE GOD is God the Father. However, we find that Jesus Christ is the ONE GOD in Titus 2:13.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)

There are no contradictions found in scripture. Both LORD and GOD are equal descriptions of Deity in the Jewish religious context. Confessing Jesus as Lord from the heart is confessing Him as God (Deity). He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

God Bless!

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The answer to your question is found several times within this thread.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)

The title of Lord is a title of Deity! How do we know this?

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

This verse states clearly that the ONE LORD is Jesus Christ, and yet we find that the ONE LORD is also God the Father.

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (Mark 12:29)

Jesus is citing the Shema found in Deuteronomy 6:4, and is referring to God His Father as the ONE LORD. 1 Corinthians 8:6 also clearly states that the ONE GOD is God the Father. However, we find that Jesus Christ is the ONE GOD in Titus 2:13.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)

There are no contradictions found in scripture. Both LORD and GOD are equal descriptions of Deity in the Jewish religious context. Confessing Jesus as Lord from the heart is confessing Him as God (Deity). He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

God Bless!


Quite honestly, Lord is not a title of Diety, unless you are using 'diety' as it was used 2000-6000 years ago, when it meant anyone with divine authority. It is a title used in and out of the Bible. In the Bible, it is used for believers and non-believers, and is the word (as I am sure everyone knows) kurios. It no more signifies diety than theos signifies God. The context determines who and what is being refered to. This is basic Bible study. That is why Abraham is not being refered to as God, but he was god, lord, to Sarah. Capitalization is not the key either way.

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Quite honestly, Lord is not a title of Diety, unless you are using 'diety' as it was used 2000-6000 years ago, when it meant anyone with divine authority. It is a title used in and out of the Bible. In the Bible, it is used for believers and non-believers, and is the word (as I am sure everyone knows) kurios. It no more signifies diety than theos signifies God. The context determines who and what is being refered to. This is basic Bible study. That is why Abraham is not being refered to as God, but he was god, lord, to Sarah. Capitalization is not the key either way.


The context IS indeed a clear indication that Lord refers to none other than Jehovah God (YHWH). In Romans 10:13, Paul even quotes from the Old Testament (Joel 2:32) where the title LORD is used in all caps.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13)

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: (Joel 2:32a)

For this reason, the word "kyrios" would be equivalent to the Septuagint's Hebrew name of God. Now take a look at that passage in its context:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:9-13)

It is very clear that the word Lord used in Romans 10:9 and 13 have the same meaning. Paul cites the Old Testament in Romans 10:13; therefore the word "Lord" has the same meaning as in Joel 2:32. Joel 2:32's usage of the word LORD is the Hebrew name of God. Thus, the word Lord in Romans 10:9 and 13 is a title of Deity.

God Bless!

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In Joel, the transliterated word is Jehovah. Romans 10:13 quoted Joel, and shows that in Romans 10:13, the word in that passage would be referring to God, the same God who raised Jesus from the dead.

This is not a discussion about the Trinity or diety(ies) or any such thing as that. I am not discussing such items. However, if anything, Romans 10:9-10 seems to be an argument for the non-trinitarian position, in that there are only 3 entities spoken of: 1) the person who is confessing and believing, 2) the Lord Jesus who was dead, and 3) God (it doesn't say the Father, or Holy Spirit) who raised him (Jesus) from the dead. Since God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, non-trinitarians use this to show Jesus was not Lord (or lord) until God made him so.

Lord is a title word, like Pharoah, Czar, King, etc. Even the word 'God' is often a title, in the Bible. Especially in the Greek and Hebrew.

I am not arguing for the non-trin position, just stating one of the basic positions of that group. My biggest problems with most in that group is they degrade our Lord Jesus (did you know only demons would refer to him by his first name only, without the title?) to just another man among many, a nice guy, a son of God, a mere man.

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The whole God MADE Jesus Lord is answered in Philippians. Scripture is the best interpreter of scripture. In all honesty, I believe the answer to your topic question has been answered by your fellow brethren on this thread several times; and this is most likely the reason why they are no longer engaging in this discussion.

  • Paul quotes from the Old Testament (Joel 2:32).
  • The word "LORD" used in Joel 2:32 translates to Jehovah, the Eternal God in the Hebrew.
  • There are NO other meanings for LORD than Jehovah God in the Hebrew (see concordance 3068. YHVH)
  • Jesus is referred to as THAT Lord (from Joel 2:32) in Romans 10:9,13.
  • Therefore, Jesus is Jehovah God (YHVH).
  • Romans 10:9 explicitly states that confessing Jesus as Lord is essential to Salvation. What Lord? the same Lord found in Joel 2:32.
  • Thus confessing Jesus as Jehovah God is essential to salvation.


For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

There are many gods and many lords as you stated. But the bible says that unto US there is ONE GOD and ONE LORD.

God Bless!

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Recently heard a preacher say that if someone doesn't believe in the diety of Christ, or does not believe Christ is God, that person can't be saved.
Does anyone know where this doctrine came from in the Bible and/or what verse(s) substantiate this statement?

This is not a discussion of the trinity, or church history, or creeds. I would like to keep this focused on the question.

Thanks.


i did not read all the posts but i will answer the question

because...

(1) if he was not the Son of God then he was just a prophet of some type, or an ascended master as the Gnostic's like to say

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

(2) the resurection authenticates the name of Jesus

Romans 1:2-4 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

Romans 6:9-10 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

(3) here is a logic chain of the name of God, shewing that the name of Jesus is the foundation of N.T. faith, and that the resurrection authentacated it


A logic chain From the WORD OF GOD

the king James bible




I. Creator account authenticated by God, exo 3:1-15

* giving Moses his name
I AM THAT I AM

* I am declaring that he is God and there is none else, no beginning no end, the Alpha and the omega the

* beginning and the end
I AM THAT I AM

* Became bases for Israel believing Moses to take them out of Egypt


II. Once out of Egypt Israel authenticated God’s name exo 3:19-22, exo 14:30-31, exo 15:1-22, exo 29:46,
· * Shewed him self God by exerting his power to bring his word to pass


III. By God’s name authenticated, the law can be established exo 24:12-18

IV. The prophets based there prophecies on the law of God luke 24:25-27, 2 peter 1:19-21, duet 18:15-22

V. Fulfilled prophecy authenticates the law is 42:9

VI. Jesus resurrection is based on the law and the prophets it fulfilled the law & established N.T. faith
* the name of Jesus is the foundation of N.T. faith rom 1:2-6, 1st john 5:11-13, rom 10:13

1st John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ…


i hope this is a help and a blessing

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This is quite good.

I think that the difficulty I see is that, grammatically speaking, the term 'son of God' and 'God the son' are not synomonous, yet many people act or believe that they are.

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