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Good News Boys And Girls!


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"So how did we get created with 'wants' (or desires) that are against God?"

To quote your latest post, where did the desire to "choos(e) the bad instead of the good" come from?


For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isaiah 13:14

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 1:6 (Skip to verse 8)
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.Jude 1:8

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44

It says that the 'angels who kept not their first estate" "despised dominion", confirmed in Isaiah 13 where satan says "I will ascend" and "i will exalt MY throne" . John 8 also says that the devil is the "father" of lying. Evidently that means it originated with him. We know that the devil is evil, correct? Let's look at another verse...... For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.1 Timothy 6:10. When the devil despised God's dominion, said in his heart "i will ascend" and "I will exalt", i doubt it was dollars. pounds, or legal tender of any kind he was greedy for. Perhaps it means simply "Greed" of any kind.

Root of all evil (wanting more)
The devil wanted to usurp all power "I will exalt my throne......"
The devil wanted glory "I will ascend into Heaven"
The devil wanted worship "will sit also upon the mount ..."

The devil then tempted Eve into the very same mindset. (wanting more)
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It seems as if many contributors to this forum have a fixation against the Biblical truth nicknamed "calvinism." However, their concern is is against their own deductions from their own misunderstandings, rather than against the Biblical teachings of those who hold to the doctrines of grace,

P.Bear quotes a relevant Scripture, but in his last statement denies it.

Bold italics are mine, Bold is his.

If he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, then how can it be argued that "If someone never believes it, they aren't saved, no matter how much God wants them to be." We should simply stop at the agreed point: "If someone never believes it, they aren't saved."

I hope we all agree that in order to be saved we must hear the Gospel, repent, & believe in Jesus & his saving work, and walk in newness of life. Our arguments must be constrained by Scripture. To accuse us of teaching the logical deductions of others does not further a Scriptural discussion.

The force of the link in the OP is the Q & A:


Covenantor, it appears you're getting the path to salvation (the way, the truth, and the life) confused with the plan of salvation. That foundation, that predestination, that good pleasure of his will is Jesus Christ the redeemer. We still have to forsake and take this free gift to have salvation. The verses from Ephesians 1 are a mind twister but they point to the redeemer as eternally evident not our receiving him.
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Here is an excellent article that answers some questions on this subject, and refutes the false answers Calvinism gives:

What Is Biblical Predestination?


Excellent link Jerry!!! My pastor once preached on this topic and I could say it was almost identical to the linked topic. This is what rightly dividing the Word is all about!!

I quote his one statement and leave it at that. "PREDESTINATION HAS TO DO WITH THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER, NOT THE SALVATION OF THE UNBELIEVING SINNER."

God's Eternal Purpose by Norman H. Wells
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