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God's Need To Be Worshiped?


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Word Origin & History

fame

late 13c., "celebrity,renown," from O.Fr. fame, from L. fama "talk, rumor, report,reputation," from PIE base *bha- "to speak, tell, say" (cf. Skt. bhanati "speaks;" L. fari "to say;" Arm. ban, bay "word, term;" O.C.S. bajati "to talk, tell;" O.E. boian "to boast," ben "prayer, request;" Gk. pheme "talk,"

If you or I went around our region raising the dead, and healing the sick, we would be on the six O'clock news the very first day. But that isn't the reason I highlighted the word. Jesus didn't come for that; he came to "seek and to save that which was lost".and He went to the cross "for the Joy set before Him". he wants to fellowship with us; if that were'nt the case, He would not live IN our hearts. His "pleasure" is to "give us the kingdom" and that "kingdom" is "peace and joy in the Holy Ghost".


And your point is? Is reknown something other than make known? Are you saying I am at fault in something I said? What is the point of taking issue with what has been said on this thread thus far? What exactly are taking issue with? Did someone say that God is not interested in having communion with His creation? Was it suggested that the Lord is one dimensional and can only have one purpose above all others? What is the real problem with God desiring worship? What is it that is bothering you about the scriptural fact that the Lord desires the fame of His glory be declared amongst the nations?

God bless,
Calvary
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God's need to be worshiped? This is a question I have been pondering for some time now and would appreciate some outside input (with scripture). Why must we worship God? Does He "need" it? Whose benefit is it for, His or ours? We are commanded to worship Him, but why?


No, God does not "need" to be worshiped, but he desires it. It is evident that that an eternal God who is from everlasting to everlasting cannot "need" anyone or anything else outside of himself. As for "whose benefit" worshiping God is for, it is beneficial both to God and to man and produces joy on both ends. As to why we are commanded to worship him it comes down to the fact that he is the only one worthy of worship. Also as we worship God in spirit and in truth in many ways we become more like him and that also produces joy on both ends. After all what did God say when he created man? He created man to be in his image and in his likeness right? Also what does the Holy Spirit try to do in the lives of believers after they turn to Christ? Conform them into Christs image right? I think that it is pretty safe to say that that is Gods goal for man.

From this point on there frequently comes a major basic belief split depending if one has calvinist leanings or is apposed to that teaching.

A Calvinist might say that God did this just because he felt like it, which in a sense is true, but Calvinists ultimately tend to feel that God does not really care about his creation he simply cares about himself. A Calvinist's logic is basically when you boil it all down that God's purposes, plans, and actions are frequently what we would call selfish, evil, and so forth if anyone else did them, but because God is God and the creator he can do those kind of things and they are actually good just because he has the right to do them.

Now, someone like myself who strongly apposes that doctrine does not tend to believe that God has one basic set of rules he lives by and a totally different set of rules for everyone else. Obviously there are a handful of things that it is only right for God to do(such as receive worship) but those things tend to be because God is completely perfect, Holy, and worthy while we are not. By and large I believe the rules God gives us are who he is himself. They are his character. I do not believe God is REALLY the sort of being that would be considered overall to be selfish, twisted, and downright evil if he was anyone but God and that it is ok for him to do that and be that way simply because he is God. NO. That is a very wrong perspective of who God is, and it is why I feel Calvinism is either solid blasphemy or coming very close to it. It isn't about what God has a "right" to do, it is about who he IS. Who he IS determines what he does and who he IS is revealed in scripture. I believe God does not want us to be selfish because he is not selfish, I believe God wants us to speak the truth because he is truth, I believe he wants us to be kind because he is kind. He desires to conform us into his image and make us like him. God is light and in him is no darkness at all. There is a reason why the law written in a mans heart tells him that God as pictured by Calvinism would be evil and not worth serving, creator or not. Now of course God's ways are higher than man's ways and we may not always understand everything he does, but we can trust him because we know his character and we know he is good, and does not merely regard mankind as a plaything to be raised up or smashed at whim just because he "can".

I know this wasn't about Calvinism per se but it was a question about who God is and why he does what he does and that question is right at the root of Calvinism vs. the biblical view of God.
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Calvary,
Because a self serving god is the god of the "reformed" calvinistic agenda. It'sthe same thing they push. "God seeking His own glory" may appear to be innocent, appears to be right, may sound good but it's part of a false gospel of a false Christ with a false glory, and those who propagate it may seem right as well. but they are false teachers. 2 corinthians 11: 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.Romans 1: 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. ''Another Jesus" is worse than idolatry. The next step. after they convince you that "God is only interested in glory" is that his predetermining of some folks to go to Hell for the glory of it is righteous and good but our finite minds are incapable of comprehending that. Liars! I suppose the aztec priests taught their devotees that Huizilopchitli was righteous and good right before they ripped their hearts out, huh? The Bible says that man KNOWS what's good and what's evil.

Edited by heartstrings
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Has anyone stopped to think it might be as simple as salvation?

IE:

Believe = saved
Worship = humility

God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud (I know - He's been "resisting" me my whole life! :bang: ) To worship Him in any form is to humble ourselves and through consistent and heartfelt worship we die to our sinful nature and give more of ourselves wholly over to Him.

I was curious to see the comments that would come about and it proves a theory I have - we try to hard to complicate God's Word and forget this:

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

I think we give ourselves too much credit for our "understanding" sound doctrine and forget that Jesus said:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Children trust implicitly, explicitly and "worship" those they love - do we?

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Calvary,
Because a self serving god is the god of the "reformed" calvinistic agenda. It'sthe same thing they push. "God seeking His own glory" may appear to be innocent, appears to be right, may sound good but it's part of a false gospel of a false Christ with a false glory, and those who propagate it may seem right as well. but they are false teachers. 2 corinthians 11: 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.Romans 1: 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. ''Another Jesus" is worse than idolatry. The next step. after they convince you that "God is only interested in glory" is that his predetermining of some folks to go to Hell for the glory of it is righteous and good but our finite minds are incapable of comprehending that. Liars! I suppose the aztec priests taught their devotees that Huizilopchitli was righteous and good right before they ripped their hearts out, huh? The Bible says that man KNOWS what's good and what's evil.


I don't know why you would take my post and then make it a rant against Calvinism. I never inidcated anything about the tenants of John Calvin. I posted over 20 verses however that clearly state that God is in fact concerned about His glory. I never offered any singular purpose as to why, that is your conjecture and caviling.
I am convinced that God is passionate about His glory. I am convinced of that because that is what the Bible tells me, not what some "they" convinced me of.

To me your statements appear as if God is as one dimensional as you are. There are a myriad of things the Lord care about. His glory being one of them. My joy? Sure. But I am not convinced that that is His principle purpose. I am at a loss over your argument. No one even suggested that God doesn't care for our joy, our lives, our fellowship... etc. You made it a straw man and then argued against your own construct. Wow. :icon_confused:

God bless.
calvary
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God is passionately committed to his fame. God's ultimate goal is that his name be known and praised by all the peoples of the earth.


Smelled calvinistic to me. If you're not a calvinst, my appologies. I set up no 'straw man', sir.
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Smelled calvinistic to me. If you're not a calvinst, my appologies. I set up no 'straw man', sir.


Smells calvinistic? The glory of God is a calvinistic doctrine? Since when?

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


That's up in eternity. God being glorified by every class of person.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.


That's up in eternity. God being glorified by all. He is to be glorified. That ain't calvinism my friend, that's simple BIble.

Your supposed heretic hunting falls flat. Calvinsim smalvinism, the BIble is clear that God eternal desires are to be glorified by His creation. That''s not baptist dogma or reformed theology, that is simply quoting the BIble. Wow, and you somehow found fault with it? Takes all kinds to make a world.

God bless,
calvary
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God has glory
God had glory before the world existed
God will get glory
God DESERVES glory

But you said

]God's ultimate goal is that his name be known and praised

Where do you get from the Bible that this is God's "ultimate goal"?
I have no problem with God's glory, and never said so...."it's your ultimate goal thing I take issue with.
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Lev 10:3; Is 26:15; Is 44:23; Is 49:3; Is 60:20; Is 61:3; Is 66:5; Ez 28:22; Ez 39:13; Hag 1:8; Mat 9:8; Mat 15:31; Mark 2:12; Lk 4:15; Lk 5:26; Lk 7:16; Lk 23:47; Jn 7:39; Jn 11:4; Jn 12:16; Jn 12:28; Jn 15:8; Jn 17:14; Jn 17:10; Acts 3:13; Acts 4:21; Acts 21:20; Gal 1:24; 2 Th 1:10; 2 Th 1:12; 1 Pet 4:11; 1 Pet 4:14

Gee I don't know. I guess out of thin air.

Wow. Some folks will defend their foolishness to the extreme. God's glorification in our lives, in the world, in the universe and in eternity. That's what it's all about ultimately. In the end there is nothing else worth doing. If it isn't glorfying God, then what is it?

God bless

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Calvary,
Because a self serving god is the god of the "reformed" calvinistic agenda. It'sthe same thing they push. "God seeking His own glory" may appear to be innocent, appears to be right, may sound good but it's part of a false gospel of a false Christ with a false glory, and those who propagate it may seem right as well. but they are false teachers. 2 corinthians 11: 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.Romans 1: 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. ''Another Jesus" is worse than idolatry. The next step. after they convince you that "God is only interested in glory" is that his predetermining of some folks to go to Hell for the glory of it is righteous and good but our finite minds are incapable of comprehending that. Liars! I suppose the aztec priests taught their devotees that Huizilopchitli was righteous and good right before they ripped their hearts out, huh? The Bible says that man KNOWS what's good and what's evil.


That is untrue and slanderous.

Calvinists teach no such thing. God did not predestine any sinner to go to Hell. All sinners deserved and would be destined to Hell. God predestined some to salvation, (it is in the bible, KJV) else none would be saved.


Immortal honors rest on Jesus’ head;
My God, my portion, and my Living Bread;
In Him I live, upon Him cast my care;
He saves from death, destruction, and despair.
He is my Refuge in each deep distress;
The Lord my strength and glorious righteousness;
Through floods and flames He leads me safely on,
And daily makes His sovereign goodness known.
My every need He richly will supply;
Nor will His mercy ever let me die;
In Him there dwells a treasure all divine,
And matchless grace has made that treasure mine.
O that my soul could love and praise Him more,
His beauties trace, His majesty adore;
Live near His heart, upon His bosom lean;
Obey His voice, and all His will esteem.

Wm Gadsby Edited by Invicta
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That is untrue and slanderous.

Calvinists teach no such thing. God did not predestine any sinner to go to Hell. All sinners deserved and would be destined to Hell. God predestined some to salvation, (it is in the bible, KJV) else none would be saved.


Immortal honors rest on Jesus’ head;
My God, my portion, and my Living Bread;
In Him I live, upon Him cast my care;
He saves from death, destruction, and despair.
He is my Refuge in each deep distress;
The Lord my strength and glorious righteousness;
Through floods and flames He leads me safely on,
And daily makes His sovereign goodness known.
My every need He richly will supply;
Nor will His mercy ever let me die;
In Him there dwells a treasure all divine,
And matchless grace has made that treasure mine.
O that my soul could love and praise Him more,
His beauties trace, His majesty adore;
Live near His heart, upon His bosom lean;
Obey His voice, and all His will esteem.

Wm Gadsby


It's actually true. Here is a quote from a well-known Calvinist's website........
The "sixth" point, double predestination, is simply the flip side of unconditional election. Just as God chooses whom He will save without regard to any distinctives in the person (Ephesians 1:5-6; Acts 13:48; Revelation 17:8), so also he decides whom He will not save without regard to any distinctives in the individual (John 10:26; 12:37-40; Romans 9:11-18; 1 Peter 2:7-8). By definition, the decision to elect some individuals to salvation necessarily implies the decision not to save those that were not chosen. God ordains not only that some will be rescued from his judgment, but that others will undergo that judgment.

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/what-does-piper-mean-when-he-says-hes-a-seven-point-calvinist
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Well I suppose it is scriptural. After all Jesus said that he spoke in parables to people so they would not believe and be saved.


I didn't post Piper's quote to AGREE with you . I posted it to show that you falsely acused me of slander and untruth because I had said that Calvinists DO teach those things. Piper and others teach "double predestination';meaning that God predestines some to Hell.
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The reformed, that believes Calvinism, follows Calvin's teachings, the TULIP doctrine, do not believe these verses as written.

Ac 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Jo 5:1 ¶ Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

They do not believe that whosoever in the above verses refers to everyone, they believe it refers only to certain people, & all others are doomed to hell the instant they're born.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

They do not believe that, 'Who will have all men to be saved,' really means all men can be saved, they calim the all refers only to few certain people, the rest will go to hell.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

In the above verse, they believe that, 'not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance,' Refers only to a certain group of people, & the rest will go to hell.

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