Movie: The Time Changer

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

What's important is that those we present the Gospel to realize the truth that Jesus is Saviour AND Lord, we can't have one without the other. The repentant thief on the cross surrendered his will to Christ's. Both thieves were railing against Christ but something happened and one of them recognized who Jesus was, surrendered to Him and was born again.

What happens most often today is a "cost nothing" message is presented, in which a person is told they just have to "accept Jesus into their heart" by saying a prayer and then go on with their life believing they are headed for heaven. That's unbiblical and leads to false "conversions".

In His teachings, Jesus often pointed out one had to surrender themselves fully to Him. Simply calling Him "Lord" without actually living as He is actually Lord, is meaningless.

I think what you are saying can be very dangerous. Salvation IS FREE!!! It costs NOTHING! The Roman catlicking "church" teaches the heresy that it costs us something. IT COST ME NOTHING! I knew nothing of Him being Lord. He was my Saviour. Being aware of my will being given over to him came much later. See, as an adult, a person can be aware that being saved will mean big changes. Fine. But to say that you must realize that or some such; that is wrong! I was a little boy; a toddler almost, when I was saved. I DID NOT surrender to Him. It is not about surrender. I accepted him as Saviour. Surrender is a good thing that comes with growth, but is not a part of salvation itself. When Christ speaks of surrender, that was in the context of being a disciple of his, not of being saved.

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

You still haven't put forth what is actually said or done in the movie, specifically, which you object to. Several here who have seen the movie didn't see what you say is there. What, exactly, is it that you saw/heard which you object to?

I wrote it in detail earlier within this topic.

[John81]

I wrote it in detail earlier within this topic.

Could you tell me which post because I can't find it?

[John81]

I think what you are saying can be very dangerous. Salvation IS FREE!!! It costs NOTHING! The Roman catlicking "church" teaches the heresy that it costs us something. IT COST ME NOTHING! I knew nothing of Him being Lord. He was my Saviour. Being aware of my will being given over to him came much later. See, as an adult, a person can be aware that being saved will mean big changes. Fine. But to say that you must realize that or some such; that is wrong! I was a little boy; a toddler almost, when I was saved. I DID NOT surrender to Him. It is not about surrender. I accepted him as Saviour. Surrender is a good thing that comes with growth, but is not a part of salvation itself. When Christ speaks of surrender, that was in the context of being a disciple of his, not of being saved.

Salvation is free but repentance is a part of that. If our hearts are not turned from self to Christ then we aren't born again. From that point onward, if we truly seek to follow Christ, we will surrender more and more of ourselves as the Spirit leads. We aim to say as Paul did, that we live yet it's not us but Christ who lives in us.

[Salyan]

Which scene, Joshua?

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

Could you tell me which post because I can't find it?

If you go to the top of this page, there is a link to go to the second page of this topic. There, you can read #19 post, #25 and so on.

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

Salvation is free but repentance is a part of that. If our hearts are not turned from self to Christ then we aren't born again. From that point onward, if we truly seek to follow Christ, we will surrender more and more of ourselves as the Spirit leads. We aim to say as Paul did, that we live yet it's not us but Christ who lives in us.

O.K. But that is not what I am really talking about. If a person is saved and if they grow more mature, they will surrender more and more of themselves to God's will, but to say, "you must devote your life to God," or "you must serve God," or "you must allow God to lead your life," etc., that is wrong. That is adding something to the gospel. That is man "bringing something to the table." Now if a man is saved, and if he continues to grow, then he will turn his life over to God, but that is not a requirement of salvation. I was saved as a little child; what did I know of devotion of life to God??!!! I was sorry for my sins, knew they were wrong, and trusted in Christ as my Saviour. THAT'S IT!!! Nothing else. No, "well, you MUST be baptized" or "you must devote your every waking moment to God" or any other added work. I came with nothing. He provided everything for ME! I hate to hear on "Christian" movies, "last night I gave my life to God." Now if they really mean that in the literal sense, that sounds like Lordship salvation to me. That is that they had to give over their life as a ransom to God. That last I knew, Jesus Christ was that ransom and his blood was enough, so that we had to bring nothing to the table.

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

Which scene, Joshua?

The scene where he is "preaching." He also lies when he says that God cannot save those He cannot control. What? The clay has power over the potter? I don't think so. I have owned a spinning, clay wheel. The potter can add water and make that clay into what he wants, or ignore the lump and let it remain the way it is.

[John81]

Part of salvation is repentance, which involves a turning to Christ and away from self. If one is truly born again, there is a change in their life right then and there which begins them on the path of following Christ rather than self.

I can't, and won't, comment upon anyones salvation as a child that I've not known, but from what I have witnessed, as well as read about and known through others, the vast majority of those who said they were saved as a very young child, later came to realize they had not actually been saved at that age. Most eventually do become born again in Christ, but a few reject the Lord and embrace the world.

There is only one way to salvation and it involves repentance.

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

Part of salvation is repentance, which involves a turning to Christ and away from self. If one is truly born again, there is a change in their life right then and there which begins them on the path of following Christ rather than self. I agree! If a person is saved, that will happen, but it is not the gospel, if you add to the gospel that you must now devote your life in some way as a servant. Some life of special good works. Now if you grow in Christ, that will happen, but it is not a part of salvation itself. If a person "witnesses" to another and adds, "you must devote your life...," that is error. Or, "you must give your life over to his will...," that is error. If salvation is not by works of righteousness which we have done, then it is not by those we will do. If we grow in Christ, we will turn more and more of ourselves over to God, yet Lordship salvation teaches that you must devote your life in some way to God in order to be saved. This is error! I was sorry for my sins when I was saved, but I took no thoughts for some sort of life devotion to God. It was about Him saving me!

I can't, and won't, comment upon anyones salvation as a child that I've not known, but from what I have witnessed, as well as read about and known through others, the vast majority of those who said they were saved as a very young child, later came to realize they had not actually been saved at that age. Most eventually do become born again in Christ, but a few reject the Lord and embrace the world. It has been my experience that many who were saved at a young age, later can't remember it or the details and so they "make sure" later. Or some jerk comes around and uses semantics to get them to doubt whether they "did it right," and so in terror of possibly having made a semantic mistake when they were saved, they pray again. I despise that.

There is only one way to salvation and it involves repentance.

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

Devoting yourself to God in some way is not a part of repentance. Repentance concerns sin. A sorrow for sin, a disgust even. That has no part with a devotion of service. Lordship "salvation" teaches that you must in some way devote your service to God, which is to add good works, which is to create error.

[John81]

Saving faith is a faith that issues from a heart that is convinced of its own fallen condition and has stopped making excuses and hiding in self-righteousness. Saving faith issues from a heart that is convinced that Christ is the only Lord and Saviour and that reaches out to Christ in personal trust. Saving faith issues from a surrendered heart, which is the very essence of repentance.

[Guest Joshua Berndt]

Saving faith issues from a surrendered heart, which is the very essence of repentance.

You will not find this in scripture. You will find the opposite is taught, that is, that surrender comes after saving faith. Your words say that a surrendered heart comes first and then saving faith. Not so. Saving faith comes first and then after salvation, surrender.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9


¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:1-2

Note that they are already brethren(saved), and he beseeches them to present...

[John81]

It seems then for nearly 2,000 years the most effective preachers, evangelists and pastors for Christ had it wrong.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

He basically says you must be a devoted servant to be saved. He also says, "[God] will not save those he cannot command," which is not true. He can command EVERYONE!

While it is true that the character of Russell Carlisle does make the statement that "He [God] will not save those He cannot command," I do not believe this is contrary to Scripture.

Jesus Himself said: He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

and again: If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

God will love them that keep His commandments, and Jesus also will love them that keep His commandments and will manifest Himself to them.
If a man loves Christ he will keep His words and God will love him and both Christ and God will make their abode with him.

So, what of those who do not keep His commandments? Will those who do not keep His commandments be saved? How can they if neither God, nor Christ love them?
How can Christ save one who will not love Him?