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Shame For A Woman To Speak In Church.

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1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church

During prayer meeting tonight, in the SBC we have been attending, a woman prayed aloud, during service, in the sanctuary. I must confess that I am still not used to that because In the IFB church I was a member of for 26 years, that was not permitted. This always puzzled me because "testifying" was always allowed and some women certainly weren't shy about exercising that privilege. The Bible plainly says "keep silence" "not permitted unto them to speak" and again "it is a shame for women to speak in church". My question is, are they to speak or aren't they? and why allow one form of "speaking" but not another?

Edited by heartstrings

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The Bible said it, I believe it. Society today would call this sexist and would label me as such just for saying I believe the Bible is the Word of God and therefore women shouldn't speak in church. I believe this would cover "praying" in church also. The IFB church I attended, after Bible study on Wednesday nights, would have prayer meeting. The men would go to one room and the women to another room and we would pray. I believe God is just as interested in hearing a woman pray as he is a man, but, in church, women are to be silent. I am too scared to go against God's Word and to lean on my own understanding. I might not understand why this is written, but I will not question the fact that it is written. It is my belief that your SBC church is wrong. As mentioned, I used to attend an IFB church, and they definately followed Biblical teaching on this. The Independant Baptist church I attend now does not follow this teaching. They also have women Sunday School teachers that have men in the class. The Bible states that a woman is not to subject authority over the man. I believe my church is wrong in this area too. The IFB church I attended did not have women teaching class that had older boys/young men in them.
I am very interested in replies to your question as I will be pastoring an IFB church starting in May and would like to read other views on this.
God Bless,
Rob

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I would have to say that I believe that women should not be praying in a mixed congregation (meaning men and women present). When a person publicly prays, they are leading in prayer...meaning that the entire group present bows before the throne, following (and praying along with silently, in many cases) the person praying. Because woman is the glory of the man, I believe that for her to pray in public (with men present, I mean) is the same as having her head uncovered - it dishonors her head, her husband. Single women might not have husbands, but I do believe they would be dishonoring their Lord (just as married women would). Does that make sense?

Testimony is different, I believe. The person giving testimony is not leading spiritually in any way. They are, rather (at least supposed to be), giving glory to God. At the same time, a woman giving testimony needs to be careful that it doesn't come off as though she were preaching or teaching a truth (I have sat through testimonies like that and they are hard to sit through!).

There are churches I know of who don't allow women to testify. That is the business of that particular congregation. I think it cuts off some praise coming from that quarter, and don't totally agree with it, but again, that's that congregation's business and none of mine.

Business meetings are different. I know of churches where women don't even attend (and some where, if they do, they are silent and don't even vote). Again, church decision. And not one I am averse to at all.

I believe the scripture you mentioned, heart, applies more to actual teaching/preaching, as well as things like business meetings (women who want to control can often try to wrest control of the meeting and cause havoc. Men can too, but it's more often women). Business meetings are set to take care of the business of the church. I know many women who won't like this, but I don't think women necessarily need to be involved in that type of thing.

Positions of leadership are the target for verses on silence and not speaking, etc. And praying in public would fall in that category, IMO.

Congrats, robmac. Where will you be pastoring?

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Women are not to teach men either, but may be not so on forums?!! I believe e have some women here who act as Bible scholars, and presume to teach. I have heard women "Preach" during testimony, or before singing a special, but I cannot say I agree with it.

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Did a man call on her to pray? If so she was saying a prayer for this group of people on behalf of the one that called on her. If she did this prayer on her on, them she was out of place, & if a woman called on her to pray them this woman usurp authority.

One last though, I did not think we were suppose to hang up our Christian cloak on the rack as we church services? If we do acting, behaving, holding to one set of values during church services, & another outside of church services that contradicts those in church services, them yes, we hang up our Christina cloak on the rack as we pass out of church services into the world.

Truth is both man & woman should behave, live, the same values, in church, or out of church, if we don't, we are not being what we claim to be.

Edited by Jerry80871852

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Women are not to teach men either, but may be not so on forums?!! I believe e have some women here who act as Bible scholars, and presume to teach. I have heard women "Preach" during testimony, or before singing a special, but I cannot say I agree with it.



Let your women keep silence in the churches:

I must say, Happy has more Bible sense than many "Bible scholars" and more wisdom than most of us men on this forum. But I believe she wouldn't teach men in church or usurp authority either.

edited to add Edited by heartstrings

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Did a man call on her to pray? If so she was saying a prayer for this group of people on behalf of the one that called on her. If she did this prayer on her on, them she was out of place,& if a woman called on her to pray them this woman usurp authority.

She did it on her own, no one asked. But we usually split the women and men up last night, the pastor had us stay together.


One last though, I did not think we were suppose to hang up our Christian cloak on the rack as we church services? If we do acting, behaving, holding to one set of values during church services, & another outside of church services that contradicts those in church services, them yes, we hang up our Christina cloak on the rack as we pass out of church services into the world.

Truth is both man & woman should behave, live, the same values, in church, or out of church, if we don't, we are not being what we claim to be.


Yes, VALUES and godly behaviour should be observed everywhere. But do you wear your suit and tie every day you're "out of church"? Do you take up offerings at Walmart or your favorite restaurant or anywhere else "out of church"? What am I saying" there are things to be done at church. The Bible simply says....... Let your women keep silence in the churches: Edited by heartstrings

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I think it's also and maybe only, a practical reason. Men are SUPPOSED to be logical while woman are more emotional. Though biblical spirituality has emotion it is good to note that the majority of God's Word is practical and sound doctrine is always practical. Practicality and logic go hand in hand and anyone making sound spiritual (biblical) decisions in any leadership role needs logic and practicality. This includes teaching God's Word. Leadership in any form can never be emotional. Emotional decisions are inevitably bad decisions (not always, but mostly). If one looks at the modern charismatic or denominational churches where woman lead one will always see a higher emotional content rather than a practical and logical biblical one. In this day and age where woman are regarded as equal in the home, the church and the work place we see "harder" woman taking on the roles of men.
My wife is a nurse and as an artist I work from home - more often than not she brings in far more than I do and it is often commented upon by certain family members that I am the "wife" as these days "stay at home dads" are accepted as the norm and with job cuts, etc it is sadly often the case that men have to stay at home. Yet I am the leader of our household. I manage the finances, etc but we share all decision making though I have final say and I am blessed with a wife that very seldom says "I told you so!" :knuppel:
I say all this because a lot of what Paul said concerning woman has been abused by men for selfish reasons and when we put aside our pride, self and personal feelings we will see that men and woman are equal in God's eyes and are just DIFFERENT with different roles to play, neither one less or inferior to the other. Men are just as prone to make emotional decisions as woman are - usually in anger and always in pride, men are just not supposed to be RULED by emotions as woman can be - we are the father, they the mother. We the law giver, they the care giver (and by law I mean spiritual law, not chauvinistic law) and the list goes on.
It's when we reverse these roles that problems arise.

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In the NT church, it wasn't like it is now...many men would get up to "preach" and share Scripture and teach. That's why the specific rules on speaking in tongues and interpreting, etc...because men would just take turns standing up and preaching. The women were not allowed to do that...and if they had a question about one of the lessons or discussions they were to ask their husband at home.

I sort of personally feel it should be that way across the board, since many "testimonies" end up turning into "preaching" and things, but.....eh. Whatever. We don't let women make motions in business meetings and we prefer they not talk during them as well, but of course we aren't going to kick one out if they do. (Had to make that rule EARLY on about 10 years ago due to problems. Thankfully, its a Bible rule anyway!)

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I don't have a problem with a woman speaking, per se. What I have a problem with is when she speaks and it is contrary to the Word of God.

From what I see in 1 Corinthians 14, the context is the speaking of tongues. A woman was not permitted to speak in tongues.

A woman is not usurping authority if the pastor of the Church hears what she has to say and gives her permission to share with the Congregation. Throughout the Word of God, we see women used over and over by God. I am reminded of the elect lady in John's second epistle. She had a Church in her house. There is no mention of whether a man or woman was the spiritual leader there, but I tend to believe the woman was or John would have written to a man.

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Guest

In the church (body of believers present for the corporate worship of God).

Testimony - yes.
Preach/Teach - no.

Robmac, you're not far from me near Marietta, Oh.

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Hello. I am not trying to overstep my authority in the Lord's house, but I have an opinion. We women stand up and give testimonies of our salvation and the goodness of God. If I was asked to pray during the service I would not. I would look to my husband.
My understanding of the verse is that women were not to speak in other tongues. The gift of tongues was for the Jews. I do not believe the author meant that women ought not to speak at all during the service. However, it does state that the woman should ask her husband at home anything she doesn't understand.
I don't believe women are to create a disturbance. I don't believe men should either, but some men take this scripture and run with it. Not showing the love of God and the respect the Lord has for women.
No offense to the men who do treat women respectfully.
The Bible mentions a man and his own house. I believe some things are a little different if the woman is a widow or single.
I believe a woman should be able to shout an amen (as long as she is not too loud) or to sing in the service. I think all of ya'll allow women to sing. That would be in direct disobedience of your verse you are quoting.

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Hello. I am not trying to overstep my authority in the Lord's house, but I have an opinion. We women stand up and give testimonies of our salvation and the goodness of God. If I was asked to pray during the service I would not. I would look to my husband.
My understanding of the verse is that women were not to speak in other tongues. The gift of tongues was for the Jews. I do not believe the author meant that women ought not to speak at all during the service. However, it does state that the woman should ask her husband at home anything she doesn't understand.
I don't believe women are to create a disturbance. I don't believe men should either, but some men take this scripture and run with it. Not showing the love of God and the respect the Lord has for women.
No offense to the men who do treat women respectfully.
The Bible mentions a man and his own house. I believe some things are a little different if the woman is a widow or single.
I believe a woman should be able to shout an amen (as long as she is not too loud) or to sing in the service. I think all of ya'll allow women to sing. That would be in direct disobedience of your verse you are quoting.


You're in trouble now Tabitha...go to your room (just kidding). I appreciate your comments. I wanted to hear from the women at OB.

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I don't have a problem with a woman speaking, per se. What I have a problem with is when she speaks and it is contrary to the Word of God.

From what I see in 1 Corinthians 14, the context is the speaking of tongues. A woman was not permitted to speak in tongues.

A woman is not usurping authority if the pastor of the Church hears what she has to say and gives her permission to share with the Congregation. Throughout the Word of God, we see women used over and over by God. I am reminded of the elect lady in John's second epistle. She had a Church in her house. There is no mention of whether a man or woman was the spiritual leader there, but I tend to believe the woman was or John would have written to a man.


Actually, it would go directly against Scripture if a woman was leading the church in her house. Unless the church was made up entirely of women, that is.

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If it were directly against Scripture, John would have written a reprimand in his epistle. It is clear that he did not.

As I said, if a pastor gives a woman permission to speak, then she is not usurping authority. A woman could lead the services in such a case.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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I think it's also and maybe only, a practical reason. Men are SUPPOSED to be logical while woman are more emotional. Though biblical spirituality has emotion it is good to note that the majority of God's Word is practical and sound doctrine is always practical. Practicality and logic go hand in hand and anyone making sound spiritual (biblical) decisions in any leadership role needs logic and practicality. This includes teaching God's Word. Leadership in any form can never be emotional. Emotional decisions are inevitably bad decisions (not always, but mostly). If one looks at the modern charismatic or denominational churches where woman lead one will always see a higher emotional content rather than a practical and logical biblical one. In this day and age where woman are regarded as equal in the home, the church and the work place we see "harder" woman taking on the roles of men.
My wife is a nurse and as an artist I work from home - more often than not she brings in far more than I do and it is often commented upon by certain family members that I am the "wife" as these days "stay at home dads" are accepted as the norm and with job cuts, etc it is sadly often the case that men have to stay at home. Yet I am the leader of our household. I manage the finances, etc but we share all decision making though I have final say and I am blessed with a wife that very seldom says "I told you so!" :knuppel:
I say all this because a lot of what Paul said concerning woman has been abused by men for selfish reasons and when we put aside our pride, self and personal feelings we will see that men and woman are equal in God's eyes and are just DIFFERENT with different roles to play, neither one less or inferior to the other. Men are just as prone to make emotional decisions as woman are - usually in anger and always in pride, men are just not supposed to be RULED by emotions as woman can be - we are the father, they the mother. We the law giver, they the care giver (and by law I mean spiritual law, not chauvinistic law) and the list goes on.
It's when we reverse these roles that problems arise.


Your right about emotions, yet many calming to be Christians are driven more by emotions than they are God's truths. That is true among both men & women.

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Hello. I am not trying to overstep my authority in the Lord's house, but I have an opinion. We women stand up and give testimonies of our salvation and the goodness of God. If I was asked to pray during the service I would not. I would look to my husband.
My understanding of the verse is that women were not to speak in other tongues. The gift of tongues was for the Jews. I do not believe the author meant that women ought not to speak at all during the service. However, it does state that the woman should ask her husband at home anything she doesn't understand.
I don't believe women are to create a disturbance. I don't believe men should either, but some men take this scripture and run with it. Not showing the love of God and the respect the Lord has for women.
No offense to the men who do treat women respectfully.
The Bible mentions a man and his own house. I believe some things are a little different if the woman is a widow or single.
I believe a woman should be able to shout an amen (as long as she is not too loud) or to sing in the service. I think all of ya'll allow women to sing. That would be in direct disobedience of your verse you are quoting.


I agree with Dave, your not in trouble, not the least bit, opinions are welcome.

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Hello. I am not trying to overstep my authority in the Lord's house, but I have an opinion. We women stand up and give testimonies of our salvation and the goodness of God. If I was asked to pray during the service I would not. I would look to my husband.
My understanding of the verse is that women were not to speak in other tongues. The gift of tongues was for the Jews. I do not believe the author meant that women ought not to speak at all during the service. However, it does state that the woman should ask her husband at home anything she doesn't understand.
I don't believe women are to create a disturbance. I don't believe men should either, but some men take this scripture and run with it. Not showing the love of God and the respect the Lord has for women.
No offense to the men who do treat women respectfully.
The Bible mentions a man and his own house. I believe some things are a little different if the woman is a widow or single.
I believe a woman should be able to shout an amen (as long as she is not too loud) or to sing in the service. I think all of ya'll allow women to sing. That would be in direct disobedience of your verse you are quoting.


I agree with this. Really, do some of you folks think Paul was saying that women can't testify, sing, shout praises in church? That somehow that's shameful?

"Let the redeemed of the Lord say so." Edited by Wilchbla

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Funny, I get a different message concerning opinions.


:hijacked:
:ot:

You fail to understand one thing, you tried to drive your opinion on that matter into the ground. You expressed your opinion, kept repeating it, over & over, so the fact is, you expressed your opinion. You would not let go, you even started another topic to keep on expressing the opinion you had already expressed in many post. There is a time to drop topics, I for one was, glad to see it locked.

:11backtotopic:

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