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Eric Stahl

God's Permanent Solar Eclipse

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When the sun gets seven times stronger Isaiah 30:25-26, God will give Israel a spot of shadow.

Isaiah 59:18–60:2 KJV
18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed’s seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

As we come to the end of the tribulation, the time will come when the Lord has had enough. The world is full of evil. There is little justice. Any who try to do good are attacked. Israel will have been purged, and the Jewish people will have repented after seeing the nuclear fires and the burning up of the ozone layer as a scroll.
Verse eighteen and nineteen are very important. Isaiah warns that the enemy whom Jesus is coming to attack and who is in control of earth is the Western powers. But who are the Western powers?
Today, Israel is back in the land and we are at the end of time. Now the military arm of the Western powers is known as NATO It is already fighting Islamic terrorism. America, who is the major power in NATO, is the primary ally of Israel.
In the future, the Russian alliance from the north will attack Israel when the Jewish people feel safe. However, America will come from the other side of the earth to fight the Russian alliance. This battle is prophesied in Jeremiah 6:21–22, Ezekiel 38:1–13, 39:1–8, Jeremiah 25:14–38, Daniel 11:36–45, etc. ...
When Jesus the Redeemer comes to save Israel with the army of heaven, Israel will be sitting in darkness under the shadow of the permanent solar eclipse. The permanent solar eclipse creates a two- hundred-mile diameter shadow on Israel and darkness on North America. You probably want to know how long the darkness will stay on America, but you probably won’t like the answer.
Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV

18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

178

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Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV

18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.





Are you sure this is talking about the millenium? It sounds awfully like the description of the New Heavens & New Earth in Revelation 21 & 22. Also, the Millenium will end with violence - so how could one rightfully describe it by saying "violence shall no more be heard"?

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Are you sure this is talking about the millenium? It sounds awfully like the description of the New Heavens & New Earth in Revelation 21 & 22. Also, the Millenium will end with violence - so how could one rightfully describe it by saying "violence shall no more be heard"?

One of the many good questions that has yet to be well answered.

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Are you sure this is talking about the millenium? It sounds awfully like the description of the New Heavens & New Earth in Revelation 21 & 22. Also, the Millenium will end with violence - so how could one rightfully describe it by saying "violence shall no more be heard"?


It is in the kingdom age. Notice verse 22. There will be births in the kingdom age.

The New Jerusalem will be suspended between the earth and the moon over the hills of Israel. Since the new Jerusalem is made of purest gold clear as crystal, the light of Jesus glory will shine down on the earth. Remember the moon will not withdraw. Edited by Eric Stahl

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Why are you stuck on this? I've seen this in more threads than I can count and like many others I still don't see all of what you are claiming.


Do you believe it yet? If not, that is why it needs to be repeated.

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It is in the kingdom age. Notice verse 22. There will be births in the kingdom age.

The New Jerusalem will be suspended between the earth and the moon over the hills of Israel. Since the new Jerusalem is made of purest gold clear as crystal, the light of Jesus glory will shine down on the earth. Remember the moon will not withdraw.


Kingdom age = eternity, not the Millenium? If so, there will be no births there. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:30

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Do you believe it yet? If not, that is why it needs to be repeated.

You simply repeat the same thing without any further explanation that hasn't already been addressed. Why would someone suddenly decide to believe it just because it's repeated over and over again? (Yes, I know that some folks will eventually believe something that has been repeated many times, but most here on OB tend to think more than the average person does)

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Kingdom age = eternity, not the Millenium? If so, there will be no births there. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:30


Jesus will rule the earth for 1000 years during the kingdom age which is also called the Millenium.

During the kingdom the earth and heavens will be renewed. The people who are righteous will survive the judgment of the sheep and the goats after the tribulation Matthew 25:31-46, and go into the kingdom alive. Isaiah 65:17-25 indicates they will have offspring who will live as long as a tree. That is why one person will become a nation in Isaiah 60:22.from the first post. Edited by Eric Stahl

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You simply repeat the same thing without any further explanation that hasn't already been addressed. Why would someone suddenly decide to believe it just because it's repeated over and over again? (Yes, I know that some folks will eventually believe something that has been repeated many times, but most here on OB tend to think more than the average person does)

John
I believe the sun and moon are in solar eclipse over Israel for the 1000 year kingdom age because they don't set neather do they withdraw and they don't shine on Israel.

Isaiah 60:19-20
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

What is your understanding about the sun and moon not shining if they are not in solar eclipse?


Eric Edited by Eric Stahl

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The new Jerusalem and the Lamb being the light doesn't come until after the Millenium - after the end of time and beginning of eternity. You're mixing up your ages.


Revelation 1:16 Jesus countenance is as the sun in it's strength now because He is glorified.
Matthew 24:27 When Jesus comes He will shine like the lightning from one end of the earth to the other.
Isaiah 59:20-60:2
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed’s seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

Isaiah 60:3-4 When the Gentile survivors of the tribulation come to Israel to worship Jesus they will look up to see his glory in the New Jerusalem which is above the hills of Israel suspended between the earth and the moon.

Pray for understanding. I also had a hard time when I found the truth was different than what I had been taught.

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My mind is boggling .... all this shows is the fantastic interpretation mess you get into when you impose a non-Biblical interpretation system on Scripture & try to "literalise" spiritual truths.

This may be off-topic, but we need a proper basis for understanding Scripture, & understanding must come before interpretation.

A lot of this springs from Scofield & HIS bible, taught & distributed by colleges that should have know better.

The fundamental error if dispensationalism is:

A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God. Seven such dispensations are distinguished in Scripture.

Hebrews 11 teaches justification by faith throughout the OT. There are countless tests of obedience, & compliance is always by faith. Abraham showed a lack of faith when he went into Egypt, but the 66 who went to Joseph did so in faith according to God's plan.

An incredible statement that presumably you all accept without question is:
Scofield:
12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

Now the Lord

The Fourth Dispensation: Promise. For Abraham, and his descenda
nt
s it is evide
nt
that the Abrahamic Covena
nt
(See Scofield "
")
made a great change. They became distinctively the heirs of promise. That covena
nt
is wholly gracious and unconditional. The descenda
nt
s of Abraham had but to abide in their own land to inherit every blessing. In Egypt they lost their blessings, but n
ot
their covena
nt
. The Dispensation of Promise ended when Israel rashly accepted the law
. Grace had prepared a deliverer (Moses), provided a sacrifice for the guilty, and by divine power brought them out of bondage
but at Sinai they exchanged grace for law. The Dispensation of Promise extends from
to
and was exclusively Israelitish. The dispensation must be distinguished from the covena
nt
. The former is a mode of testing; the latter is everlasting because unconditional. The law did n
ot
abrogate the Abrahamic Covena
nt
but was an i
nt
ermediate disciplinary dealing "till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made" ;
;
. Only the dispensation, as a testing of Israel, ended at the giving of the law.

"The descendants of Abraham had but to abide in their own land to inherit every blessing. In Egypt they lost their blessings, but not their covenant. The Dispensation of Promise ended when Israel rashly accepted the law Exodus 19:8"

What does this imply for the truth of Scripture? God had sent Joseph into Egypt so that the Israelites could be cared for, & multiply there, without the trouble they would have run into if they had expanded as tribes in Canaan. When they were strong enough, & when the time prophesied to Abraham was complete, God sent Moses to deliver them from Egypt & bring them into the promised land. They were going back to the promised land, & promised obedience to God. How was that a "failure of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God"?

Exo. 19
4
Ye have seen what I did u
nt
o the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you u
nt
o myself.

5
Now therefore, if ye will
ob
ey my voice indeed, and keep my covena
nt
, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure u
nt
o me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6
And ye shall be u
nt
o me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak u
nt
o the children of Israel.

7
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

8
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people u
nt
o the LORD.


However can Scofield see that exchange as "Israel rashly accepted the law"? And however can dispensationalists follow him?

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John
I believe the sun and moon are in solar eclipse over Israel for the 1000 year kingdom age because they don't set neather do they withdraw and they don't shine on Israel.

Isaiah 60:19-20
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

What is your understanding about the sun and moon not shining if they are not in solar eclipse?


Eric

It doesn't say the sun won't shine or the moon will no longer reflect sunlight, it says the light of the Lord will be so bright the light from the sun or moon won't be our light. There won't be any notice of the sun or moon, whether they be up or down, it won't effect those under the light of the Lord.

Also, as Salyan said, you seem to be mixing things up in the same way the religious leaders of Jesus' day mixed up the prophecies regarding the first and second coming of Christ.

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It doesn't say the sun won't shine or the moon will no longer reflect sunlight, it says the light of the Lord will be so bright the light from the sun or moon won't be our light. There won't be any notice of the sun or moon, whether they be up or down, it won't effect those under the light of the Lord.

Also, as Salyan said, you seem to be mixing things up in the same way the religious leaders of Jesus' day mixed up the prophecies regarding the first and second coming of Christ.


Isaiah 60:19-20

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended

John the sun and moon will not withdraw and they will not give light. This describes a permanent solar eclipse over Israel and permanent darkness on America.

The sun will still shine on the earth but Jerusalem will be under the shadow of the moon. That is why the gentiles will come to Israel to look up to see the New Jerusalem Isaiah 60:3-4. Edited by Eric Stahl

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Isaiah 60:19-20

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended

John the sun and moon will not withdraw and they will not give light. This describes a permanent solar eclipse over Israel and permanent darkness on America.

The sun will still shine on the earth but Jerusalem will be under the shadow of the moon. That is why the gentiles will come to Israel to look up to see the New Jerusalem Isaiah 60:3-4.

That's not what those verses say. Also, Salyan is right, so that doesn't fit either.

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But the New Jerusalem isn't THERE yet.


Salyan,

Revelation 21:22–27 KJV
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Notice that the New Jerusalem is near the earth and the light of Jesus will shine on the nations that are saved. The unsaved people are not allowed into the shadow of the moon where they could look up and see the New Jerusalem.

Notice that there is no light from the sun and moon in the New Jerusalem, but there also will be no night in the New Jerusalem because
Jesus’ glorified body shines like the sun in all of its strength. The light of Jesus will shine through the clear gold streets and walls down on Israel. The Bible teaches that only born-again people will be allowed into
the New Jerusalem.

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Salyan,

Revelation 21:22–27 KJV
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Notice that the New Jerusalem is near the earth and the light of Jesus will shine on the nations that are saved. The unsaved people are not allowed into the shadow of the moon where they could look up and see the New Jerusalem.

Notice that there is no light from the sun and moon in the New Jerusalem, but there also will be no night in the New Jerusalem because
Jesus’ glorified body shines like the sun in all of its strength. The light of Jesus will shine through the clear gold streets and walls down on Israel. The Bible teaches that only born-again people will be allowed into
the New Jerusalem.


Okay. So far you've presented the ideas that:

Isaiah 59-60 proves a solar eclipse. – Does it? Or is it talking about spiritual darkness? It says ‘arise, shine.’ Are the people it speaks today supposed to start glowing? It talks about ‘the Lord arising upon thee’ – is God going to arise over the horizon like the sun? Or is it talking of spiritual things – the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, or the glory of His presence?

There will be permanent solar eclipse over Israel in the tribulation. -- Maybe. I haven't seen Scriptures to prove it one way or the other. Most of what you quote for this seems to be taken out of context to prove it.


There will be permanent solar eclipse over America. - I think you're right to see America in 'the islands,' but you have still not presented any evidence of a solar eclipse.

That solar eclipse will continue into the Millennium.
The New Jerusalem will be over Israel during the Millennium so Jesus can be the light. Proven by Isaiah 60:19-20. – Isaiah 60:18 speaks of there being no more violence in the land. But Revelation 20:8-9 talks of a great army being gathered together against the holy city. Also, comparing Scripture with Scripture, we see that the Revelation doesn’t speak of Jesus being the literal light until chapter 21 – after the end of the Millennium kingdom. Furthermore, the New Jerusalem does not descent out of heaven until after the end of the Millennium.

During the kingdom the earth and heavens will be renewed. – False. The new heavens & new earth are not spoken of until Revelation 21 – again after the end of the Millennium. They have to be after the millennium – for in them God has recreated the earth and removed the curse of sin that is on all creation. If God were to do this before the rebellion of 20:8, that very rebellion would be sin and God would have to recreate the heavens & earth again afterwards to get a pure creation.

And you’re still mixing up your ages! I haven't done a terrible amount of study in this area (not to say I haven't done any), but it seems fairly straightforward to me:


Revelation 19 - Jesus returns after tribulation. Beast & false prophet cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20 - Satan bound for a thousand years. Era of Millenium. Satan loosed at end - general rebellion against God. God wins. Satan cast into lake of fire. Great White Throne judgement.
Revelation 21 - New Heavens & New Earth. New Jerusalem descends out of heaven. Lamb being the light of that city. Edited by salyan

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Okay. So far you've presented the ideas that:

Isaiah 59-60 proves a solar eclipse. – Does it? Or is it talking about spiritual darkness? It says ‘arise, shine.’ Are the people it speaks today supposed to start glowing? It talks about ‘the Lord arising upon thee’ – is God going to arise over the horizon like the sun? Or is it talking of spiritual things – the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, or the glory of His presence?

There will be permanent solar eclipse over Israel in the tribulation. -- Maybe. I haven't seen Scriptures to prove it one way or the other. Most of what you quote for this seems to be taken out of context to prove it.


There will be permanent solar eclipse over America. - I think you're right to see America in 'the islands,' but you have still not presented any evidence of a solar eclipse.

That solar eclipse will continue into the Millennium.
The New Jerusalem will be over Israel during the Millennium so Jesus can be the light. Proven by Isaiah 60:19-20. – Isaiah 60:18 speaks of there being no more violence in the land. But Revelation 20:8-9 talks of a great army being gathered together against the holy city. Also, comparing Scripture with Scripture, we see that the Revelation doesn’t speak of Jesus being the literal light until chapter 21 – after the end of the Millennium kingdom. Furthermore, the New Jerusalem does not descent out of heaven until after the end of the Millennium.

During the kingdom the earth and heavens will be renewed. – False. The new heavens & new earth are not spoken of until Revelation 21 – again after the end of the Millennium. They have to be after the millennium – for in them God has recreated the earth and removed the curse of sin that is on all creation. If God were to do this before the rebellion of 20:8, that very rebellion would be sin and God would have to recreate the heavens & earth again afterwards to get a pure creation.

And you’re still mixing up your ages! I haven't done a terrible amount of study in this area (not to say I haven't done any), but it seems fairly straightforward to me:


Revelation 19 - Jesus returns after tribulation. Beast & false prophet cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20 - Satan bound for a thousand years. Era of Millenium. Satan loosed at end - general rebellion against God. God wins. Satan cast into lake of fire. Great White Throne judgement.
Revelation 21 - New Heavens & New Earth. New Jerusalem descends out of heaven. Lamb being the light of that city.


Salyan,

I like talking to you. You tell me why you think I am wrong and what you believe. You give me a chance to explain. After the tribulation Jesus must remake the surfase of the earth and the ozone layer or people could not live.

Isaiah 65:17-25
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

During the kingdom age, people will not die from accidents, diseases, or murders because they will live their full days. The second half of the verse means that the age of accountability will be one hundred years old, which means a person must accept Jesus as Lord before the age of one hundred or they are accounted a sinner and bound for hell. The curse of sin will still be on humankind, so the children of the tribulation survivors must still get saved by faith in Jesus.

214 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant
vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

When people build and plant in the kingdom, no one will take anything from them because Jesus will not allow theft. Notice in verse twenty-two that the lifespan of a person will be as long as a tree’s life span. Think of what that means. People will probably live over nine hundred years, like those before the flood of Noah’s day. Also, notice that verse twenty-three says people will have offspring.
Think about the number of relatives that a person could have if he lives nine hundred years. Since people will live almost as long as the thousand-year kingdom age, most will be alive at its end. Then God will release Satan from the bottomless pit to tempt humankind to revolt against Jesus one last time.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

In the book of James, the Bible says that we have not because we ask not. But during the kingdom age, the verse you just read in Isaiah states that before people ask, God will answer. Wow, just think about that! God will meet the needs of the people before they even know they have needs.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

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nice talking to you, too! You don't get mad... ;)

Okay, good point on needing to fix the environment after the Tribulation. Considering that people will be living on the earth right through, though, I still disagree that this is the complete change spoken of in Rev. 21. If Christ remade the entire surface of the earth, it would be a wee bit difficult for people to live through (compare to Peleg. Because his name refers to a division of the earth in his days, some people believe that the continents were split apart then. Such an event would create a catastrophe similar to the flood, and I strongly doubt people could have lived through that. The plain reading is to the division of languages and peoples at Babel). Also, if this were to be the new heavens and earth 'wherein dwelleth righteousness,' we would not see the sin that will occur at the end of the millennium (and to a smaller extent, throughout). Since the Bible doesn't specifically mention 2 re-creations, I am bound to think that there will be only 1 re-creation, and possibly (probably) some smaller-scale fixing happening earlier.

I was thinking about that Isaiah 65:17, 20 reference and trying to figure whether it could be talking of a NHAE before the Millennium and how that jived with the NHAE that will quite obviously be created after the Millennium. Could there be two? But Rev. 21:1 says that the first heaven and the first earth were passed away - not the former heavens or some such indication of plurality. The language still seems to indicate only one re-creation, occurring after the millennium. (I really wish there was a smiley that could shrug! :))

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