The Fruit of Hylesism

[JerryNumbers]

Did Jack Hyles demand this blind loyalty? I do not know the answer to that question, but do have a personal opinion that points in another direction. I used to attend an IFB church in the Wheeling, WV area. The pastor is a grad from HAC and was a Joe Boyd boy sometime in the late 90's. I have heard Randy Taylor preach several times at this church and Joe Boyd had preached there also. One of my favorite pastors to listen to on the net is Jeff Owens who used to be a VP or President or a Dean of HAC. Of all these, I haven't heard much of a call, so to speak, to be a blind loyalist. But oh did I see it! In fact, if you aren't a blind loyalist, I don't believe you will ever be able to find a "colder" church to attend. When I left this church, the pastor came and visited me and wanted to know why. One of the things that came up during this 2 hour conversation was something he quoted from Joe Boyd. Bro. Boyd told him if he didn't learn the greek language, that at some point he will preach heresy. I about fell out of the pew when the pastor quoted this from the pulpit. I told this pastor that I personally believe the statement is incorrect because it was like saying God is only as strong as the greek language, and if that language were to disappear than so would God. This came from a church that believed the KJB was the preserved Word of God in our language. How can we believe that and believe we need to know greek. This was very contradicting to me. When I questioned something Bro. Boyd said, a look of part fear and part anger came on this pastor's face. It wasn't the anger that got my attention, but the FEAR. Where does this "fear" come from? Is it Biblical? I wasn't questioning whether Bro. Boyd was a man of God. I just disagreed with something he said.

My mom spent 30 years in the church that I am presently attending, (used to be American Baptist now is just Independant Baptist and pretty worldly). She has now been going to this IFB church since 1996. When she started there, one of the first things she did is change her belief on wearing pants. She immediately got rid of all her pants and now will only wear a dress. I questioned her on this and wondered why she changed. She said she was growing. I asked her why she didn't grow for 30 years at the American Baptist church. She has read her Bible daily as long as I can remember. We had 2 daily devotions the whole time I was growing up, one at breakfast and one before bed. We went to church 3 times a week no matter what. She answered the question by telling me that since the pastor didn't preach on this, that the Holy Spirit had been quenched in her. I told her that if her heart was open to learning, the Holy Spirit wouldn't want her to sin so He would have convicted her. She said , "no". If her pastor wasn't preaching it, the Holy Spirit is quenched and the Bible backs this up in a verse that questions "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14 So are we to be "blind sheep"? I sincerely believe that the Holy Spirit will convict even if the preacher isn't preaching it. It has to do with our heart. My mom fully believes the pastor and his sermons and you do not question the man of God. This didn't come from a sermon or her being told that by a preacher. She believes it on her own. She didn't need Jack Hyles or anyone else. She also referenced something about "touching the man whose head is annointed" and this isn't just physical but with words or questions also. Who are we to question the man of God who is filled with the Spirit and preaching God's Word?

God Bless,
Rob

If what he preaches & or teaches, does not line up with the Bible, them he, who ever it is, is a false preacher & teachers.

So yes, any child of God can determine if the man behind the pulpit preaches truths by checking out his or her Bible..

[brosmith]

Blind loyalty? It is interesting that someone coins a term and it catches on like wildfire!

I first heard the term "blind loyalty' back in 1985 at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Colorado Springs. It was preached from the pulpit as a good and necessary thing to practice.

By the way, isn't faith "blind loyalty"? ... If faith is "blind loyalty" then perhaps you are blindly serving the Lord! Think about it.

No, faith is not blind loyalty. We are not called to serve the Lord blindly. That is absurd.

Psalms 34:8, "O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him."

You are setting up a straw man argument. We are told in the scriptures to have faith in God (not a man) and we are only to follow those men who are true followers of God. Yes, I believe in loyalty to the man of God. But I will compare everything to the word of God and I am not afraid to challenge any preacher who gets out of line with the scriptures! Edited April 15, 2012 by brosmith

[JerryNumbers]

I first heard the term "blind loyalty' back in 1985 at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Colorado Springs. It was preached from the pulpit as a good and necessary thing to practice.



No, faith is not blind loyalty. We are not called to serve the Lord blindly. That is absurd.

Psalms 34:8, "O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him."

You are setting up a straw man argument. We are told in the scriptures to have faith in God (not a man) and we are only to follow those men who are true followers of God. Yes, I believe in loyalty to the man of God. But I will compare everything to the word of God and I am not afraid to challenge any preacher who gets out of line with the scriptures!

I agree 100%, its not blind faith, it would only be blind if we did not have the Bible, the Bible gives us a true & accurate account of everything God chose to reveal to us, from the moment He created the earth to when the unsaved dead shall stand before the great white throne judgment, & a peek into Glory.

[Pastorj]

If you have attended HAC, then you should be aware of the way chapel is opened up. I don't remember the exact words, but I am sure Irishman could help us out. It was elevating Mr. Hyles. Not something that John the Baptist would say.

[HappyChristian]

If you have attended HAC, then you should be aware of the way chapel is opened up. I don't remember the exact words, but I am sure Irishman could help us out. It was elevating Mr. Hyles. Not something that John the Baptist would say.

Oh,I know, I know!! "We love you preacher, oh, yes, we do. We don't love anyone as much as you. When you're not with us, we're blue. Oh, preacher, we love you." Lovely song by the girls (not!)...and everyone else clapping and applauding as he enters....

As far as blind loyalty goes....remember back when things exploded there? People began wearing those 100% for Hyles buttons? The church I was in at the time hosted a ladies conference every year, with ladies from First Baptist doing the speaking. Well...my pastor at the time was called by JH and asked if he was 100% in agreement with JH. My pastor told him that he wasn't 100% in agreement with anyone but God, so no. And JH pulled the ladies from coming to the conference. THAT's a demand for blind loyalty.

robmac - I worked with Bro. Boyd and Randy Taylor for quite a while (as well as Bro. Araiza, Bro. Corle, etc). Blind loyalty does play a part in their actions. For a time I worked in the office of the camp. When I knew that it was time for me to leave, I told Bro. Boyd I had to go. He was not happy, and he looked at me and said that there was such a thing as loyalty...I told him that if I had learned anything from him in my years working with him, it was to be loyal to God first and foremost. That took him by surprise, and he gave me his blessing.

As to repentance being a work in JH's mind...there was an evangelist who went in to see him (one that, if I named him, many people on here would know him) about it. And that evangelist quit preaching repentance as a result of what was said to him.

Anytime wrongs are shown about favorite men (we call them great men of God...isn't that rather dyslexic? Shouldn't it rather be "men of a great God?") someone brings up that they've done more for the Lord than any of the critics - so, his wrong should, ipso facto, be excused or ignored. Yes, he did a lot of good. But he also did a lot of harm once he began thinking too highly of himself.

The idea that the preacher is untouchable, never wrong, never to be questioned came from somewhere...guess who taught it? To all his preacher boys...who in turn went out and taught it to their churches...Granted, too many people are too quick to criticize the pastor for anything. That ought not be. But the pastor, even though a leader, is not above the people of his church. And if he's wrong, the people of the church have a right, under God, to question it. If it ain't Bible, it doesn't matter who's presenting it - it's wrong.

[JerryNumbers]

Our Father, & His Son, is the only one never to do wrong, & there's where all glory goes. Yet some do seem to want to save some for self.

[irishman]

Ok, I seem to be the lone ranger here, so I am leaving you all to your foolish whims. By the way, what is wrong with loving your pastor, and praising him for the sacrifices he makes? Some of your preachers could use the encouragement too. Does this mean that they do not love the Lord more? The next time you "cherish" your mates, or children, be careful--you may be accused of worshiping them.

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Edited April 19, 2012 by Pastorj

[HappyChristian]

Ok, I seem to be the lone ranger here, so I am leaving you all to your foolish whims. By the way, what is wrong with loving your pastor, and praising him for the sacrifices he makes? Some of your preachers could use the encouragement too. Does this mean that they do not love the Lord more? The next time you "cherish" your mates, or children, be careful--you may be accused of worshiping them.

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Foolish whims? Calling sin sin is not a foolish whim. Ignoring it because of the "good" someone has done would be, though. I would never, ever (even when I was in college) sing to my pastor that I didn't love anyone as much as him - unless he were my husband. But there is no-one we are to love more than God. An humble pastor would not allow such a song to be sung about him because he would know that is just downright unscriptural. (of course, coming into the girl's dorm and sitting with the girls, letting them run their hands over his head was just their way of cherishing him, right? And he was so good to let them do that. It had nothing to do with his ego. Not at all.)

That song isn't about cherishing, it's about worshipping. Did your kids get the plaque that JH wanted people to put all over their house - it said "pray for power." Yes, we need to seek power from the Lord....but the picture on it (a picture is not needed, is it) is of HIM. You might think that's nitpicking, but I know a whole lot of people whose lives have been impacted very badly because of his teachings.

And to put words that our Savior uttered when He was being crucified in the context of discussing the fruits of a MAN who ended up thinking way too highly of himself is stunning. Our Lord was crucified because of our sins - yours, mine, and the rest of the world's. Christ did nothing to deserve crucifixion. To try and equate a discussion on the fallout from the ministry of a man who began to serve self instead of the Lord to the crucifixion of that Lord is unconscionable. Shame.

[irishman]

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Edited April 20, 2012 by irishman

[irishman]

If people go to hell, it is their own fault; if they do not have the witness of the Holy Spirit in them, they know they are lost. Conviction does not quit when one makes a false profession.

If Dr. Hyles is wrong, the Lord will deal with him. We have too many crusaders who are too quick to point out what they deem as flaws in a persons character, when we ought simply to look to themselves and their flaws. If there is a problem with someone teaching others a lie, that is up to the preacher to point it out, not every one with a whim to straighten out the world. Keep preaching it sister, and enjoy yourself.

This is going nowhere, so it is futile to continue, have fun with your vendetta, adios.

[Pastorj]

Paul clearly called out people by name that were wrong and living contrary to Scripture. Paul called out John Mark, Peter and a few others. Jack Hyles was not just wrong, he was teaching another Gospel. He was causing young people to worship himself. This is not just being wrong.

[John81]

Paul clearly called out people by name that were wrong and living contrary to Scripture. Paul called out John Mark, Peter and a few others. Jack Hyles was not just wrong, he was teaching another Gospel. He was causing young people to worship himself. This is not just being wrong.

As well, the Bereans were held up to us as an example that EVERYONE is to examine what is preached/taught by the Word of God.

[Oldtimer]

As well, the Bereans were held up to us as an example that EVERYONE is to examine what is preached/taught by the Word of God.

Take a look here at the number of forums and topics that are setup for consideration. From cults to Bible versions to events in the news, each is for the purpose of evaluation and education.

One of the reasons I'm here is because it is a place to examine and compare to the Word of God, all those things around us. A place where I can examine myself and grow in my faith.

It's also a place where people who profess to be shepards of Christ's flock should be examined. No, not to judge their salvation, but to examine the fruit they bear. If Eve had examined the "fruit" of the serpent, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[JerryNumbers]

Some that post on this forum are not of the Baptist faith, & proclaim another gospel that's not within the pages of the Holy Bible & examine others by that other gospel.

And yes, those who proclaim another gospel, leading people to a false hope, whether saved or lost, will reap what they sow. The saved will reap it in this life by chastening from our Lord, the lost will reap it in the lake of fire.

[irishman]

had to jump back in here for a moment:

an excerpt from a couple of Dr. Hyles' books. They can be found at "www.jackhyles.com"

From "Misunderstood repentance"
"Over and over again the question is asked me, "Is repentance necessary for salvation?" Of course, this is of utmost importance. Anything that deals with the way a person can escape the fires of eternal Hell and go to Heaven to live forever is of vital importance. In this chapter, we will address this most important question".

The entire booklet is good, and much is said about repentance.

Another excerpt from "Let's go soul winning"
"I said, “Mr. Hill, this is the prayer to say: ‘Dear Lord, be merciful to me a sinner and forgive my sins and save my soul. I do now repent of my sins and trust Jesus to save me.’” He prayed the prayer. She prayed the same prayer. We got off our knees and they were both crying. I said, “That’s wonderful! Now you said you were saved when you were three, didn’t you?” Mr. Hill looked at me and said, “No, I just got saved a minute ago.” That is a long way around to get the Gospel to them without them wanting it if you don’t think they are saved."

Dr. Hyles DOES believe in repentance, and preaches it. Another unfounded rumor put to rest.

Edited April 21, 2012 by irishman