The Fruit of Hylesism

[RSS Robot]

The following is excerpted from the new book The Two Jacks: Hyles and Schaap, which is available as a free eBook from the Way of Life web site -- www.wayoflife.org.

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The fruit of the Hyles model and methodology has often consisted of moral and spiritual shipwreck.

Multitudes of former members of Hyles-type churches, having witnessed so much error and hypocrisy, have abandoned church altogether. Or they have explored the contemporary emerging philosophy, having allegedly found more spiritual reality in those circles than they witnessed in “fundamentalism.”

Being the products of shallow evangelism, many of these have never been biblically converted. They have prayed a sinner’s prayer but haven’t been converted. Having never had a real and dynamic relationship with Christ, they are man-followers, and when the man fails, they are offended and quit, sometimes blaming Christ and the church for something that is man’s fault alone.

Even if they were truly saved, they were not properly discipled and grounded in the Scriptures and in solid truth. All too typically they have been used or neglected and sometimes abused, but not shepherded.

The solution to this problem is not to abandon church or to capitulate to a contemporary style of Christianity that is conformed to the world. The “newest” part of the true Christian faith is 2,000 years old; it isn’t going to be contemporary cool!

When I was saved in 1973 out of a “hippie” background, I was perfectly cool by the world’s standards. I was a real “dude.” I had my long hair; had my self-centered attitude and my New Age philosophy; had my sensual party music; had my drug-using, hitchhiking background. But after my conversion I didn’t search for a cool type of Christianity. I had truly repented of my foolish ways and my rebellion against God. I had drunk deeply of “this world” and I was fed up with it. I wanted something different: something eternal rather than temporal, solid rather than shallow, unbending rather than plastic.

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[John81]

The promotion of simply "pray after me" has always been very bad no matter who promotes it.

If one isn't presented the whole Gospel message, if there is no sign of conviction leading to repentance, then no "sinners prayer" will be of help.

How much worse off is a lost soul who is given false hope of heaven than is the lost soul who has not been given false assurance.

[JerryNumbers]

No telling how much trouble he caused the souls of many men & women. The harm he did will never fade away.

I feel sure if I did anything close to what he did I would be fired instantly, & rightly so, yet there seems to be many that supports Mr. Hyles ungodly behavior, & helped him attempt to cover it up.

[John81]

No telling how much trouble he caused the souls of many men & women. The harm he did will never fade away.

I feel sure if I did anything close to what he did I would be fired instantly, & rightly so, yet there seems to be many that supports Mr. Hyles ungodly behavior, & helped him attempt to cover it up.

Unfortunately, there can be many professing Christians, even among IFB, who get caught up following a man rather than Christ. This always leads to trouble.

[JerryNumbers]

Of course there can, I was only referring to the one that was brought up in this topic.

I just read of a Baptist pastor convicted of molesting a 3 year old girl at a church house that happened to be witnessed by & out of town singers wife that had been invited to sing at a revival. This woman had to leave the sanctuary to go to a restroom right before service started, & she witnessed the pastor with this 3 year old girl in a very compromising position.

Of course the pastor said he was innocent, & this woman was lying, that he was not alone with this young girl, the jury did not believe him.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Jerry80871852

[irishman]

This "Hate Hyles" junk is one sided, to say the least. All three of my children graduated rom HAC, and one with a masters degree. Sure, there were some that added their own flare to the Gospel message, and that may be an oversight of Dr. Hyles, but the fact remains that the "errors" he is accused of in leading ppeople to Christ, are few compared to the souls that did make it. And again I ask (This "hate Hyles" stuff comes up now and again) How does the critical one know who was saved and who was not? People get saved even if we stumble through the presentation, stuttering ans stammering, and not "doing a good job" of presenting the Gospel. Is it our presentation that saves them, or the grace off God? I say to all those that are running their mouths, "Shut Up!" and let the work of Christ go on.

I believe that most soul winners are seriously trying to win others, but we over emphasize "Knowing how to do it!" Again, it is not our "know how" that saves them, but the grace of God who sees beyond the error of mans foolishness and looks upon the heart of the needy. Do you think God can't save someone without you, Mr. Mouth? (To whoever was responsible for such rash statements.) Is it "my way, or no way?" Come on, let's get real! We all know the truth of these words, but pride distorts it into something it isn't. Teach me, old wise one, or shut up.

[John81]

I've seen no one post any "hate Hyles" here.

Those who are led to simply say "a sinners prayer" but are not properly presented the Gospel, not convicted by the Holy Ghost unto repentance, but yet told they are saved and going to heaven just because they said that prayer, are in worse condition than they were before. Now, not only are they still lost, but they are filled with a false assurance they are okay with God.

I know a guy that was saved while reading "The Living Bible" but that hardly means we should endorse that paraphrase.

[brosmith]

I believe that most soul winners are seriously trying to win others, but we over emphasize "Knowing how to do it!" Again, it is not our "know how" that saves them, but the grace of God who sees beyond the error of mans foolishness and looks upon the heart of the needy. Do you think God can't save someone without you, Mr. Mouth? (To whoever was responsible for such rash statements.) Is it "my way, or no way?" Come on, let's get real! We all know the truth of these words, but pride distorts it into something it isn't. Teach me, old wise one, or shut up.

Back in the summers of 1981 and 1982 I was one of Joe Boyd's preacher boys. I saw first hand how man's methodology was overemphasized. 'Drawing the net' was considered to be the most important thing. Use their plan and method and you were pretty much guaranteed success (the Carl Hatch method of soulwinning was considered to be the best). I was trained by Randy Taylor, Oliver Araiza, and Mark Wilson (although I have not seen these men in many years). It is my hope that these men (and the many others who are like them) will someday recognize the errors of their way and repent in dust and ashes. Edited March 29, 2012 by brosmith

[irishman]

I've seen no one post any "hate Hyles" here.

Those who are led to simply say "a sinners prayer" but are not properly presented the Gospel, not convicted by the Holy Ghost unto repentance, but yet told they are saved and going to heaven just because they said that prayer, are in worse condition than they were before. Now, not only are they still lost, but they are filled with a false assurance they are okay with God.

I know a guy that was saved while reading "The Living Bible" but that hardly means we should endorse that paraphrase.

The "hate" thing I have to admit, is borrowed from the world, but the point is that many criticize Dr. Hyles that have never actually seen firsthand, the converts, and talked with them. To say a man is saved or not is not our to say though.

[John81]

Scripture says we can KNOW we are saved and by the same way we KNOW we are saved, we are to view whether others are in Christ or not.

First of all, one can't be born again in Christ if they don't know they are sinners, if they don't realize they are headed to hell because of that, if they don't accept the conviction of the Holy Ghost which leads them to repent and be biblically born again in Christ.

Scripture is clear that if we are truly born again in Christ we ARE a new creature. Our lives WILL show the evidence of our salvation.

There is no "special prayer" that if one prays it they are guarenteed heaven. Leading someone in a "sinners prayer" when they have no understanding of their sin and need for a Saviour, when they are not under conviction of the Holy Ghost, when they are unrepentant, does not make them saved. What it does is gives a lost sinner a false belief that they are okay with God and can go on with life as usual.

I'm not here speaking directly with regards to Hyles, but to all who use such unbiblical methods.

[JerryNumbers]

Back in the summers of 1981 and 1982 I was one of Joe Boyd's preacher boys. I saw first hand how man's methodology was overemphasized. 'Drawing the net' was considered to be the most important thing. Use their plan and method and you were pretty much guaranteed success (the Carl Hatch method of soulwinning was considered to be the best). I was trained by Randy Taylor, Oliver Araiza, and Mark Wilson (although I have not seen these men in many years). It is my hope that these men (and the many others who are like them) will someday recognize the errors of their way and repent in dust and ashes.

I would think the best method to use is to let God lead you, God's plan is always better than man's plan.

Back in the summers of 1981 and 1982 I was one of Joe Boyd's preacher boys. I saw first hand how man's methodology was overemphasized. 'Drawing the net' was considered to be the most important thing. Use their plan and method and you were pretty much guaranteed success (the Carl Hatch method of soulwinning was considered to be the best). I was trained by Randy Taylor, Oliver Araiza, and Mark Wilson (although I have not seen these men in many years). It is my hope that these men (and the many others who are like them) will someday recognize the errors of their way and repent in dust and ashes.

Seems it was more about following man, than following God.

I don't care for guarantees from men when if comes to godly things, & I feel that God's measurement of success will be much different than the way men measure sucess.

[irishman]

Scripture says we can KNOW we are saved and by the same way we KNOW we are saved, we are to view whether others are in Christ or not.

First of all, one can't be born again in Christ if they don't know they are sinners, if they don't realize they are headed to hell because of that, if they don't accept the conviction of the Holy Ghost which leads them to repent and be biblically born again in Christ.

Scripture is clear that if we are truly born again in Christ we ARE a new creature. Our lives WILL show the evidence of our salvation.

There is no "special prayer" that if one prays it they are guarenteed heaven. Leading someone in a "sinners prayer" when they have no understanding of their sin and need for a Saviour, when they are not under conviction of the Holy Ghost, when they are unrepentant, does not make them saved. What it does is gives a lost sinner a false belief that they are okay with God and can go on with life as usual.

I'm not here speaking directly with regards to Hyles, but to all who use such unbiblical methods.

John81,
Have you ever read any of Hyles' books on soul winning? He clearly defines them as sinners. The worst thing I believe he did was push a little too hard, but that may be because he realized the awfulness of hell.

#2. We are not to judge others concerning salvation, but to look at their "fruits". We cannot say what is in their heart.

If someone is truly born again, there will be a change in their life (become a "new creature), but we do not know how great that change is, or if it has taken place in some areas. I know I did not immediately change in every way when I was saved, so does that mean that someone did not present the Gospel to me in the "right" way?

When someone gets saved, they realize a new awarness of sin in their life. This may not be too obvious to us, but they could be under conviction in the matter.

They also seem to want to know more about their Lord, but again, who can judge them in this? Can we follow them night and day and see if they read their Bibles or pray, or meditate on the Word of God? I believe us "old timers" need to be a little less critical, and realize that we too had moments when others may have thought that we were not truly saved.

The fourth thing, and this sort of goes with our subject, is that they have a desire to tell others, or someone, what had happened to them. Of course, we teach that Baptism is the "public profession" of their faith, but just because they are not Baptized, does that mean they are not saved? Of course not.

People need to ay off Hyles until they become familiar with him; there are always going to abusers of his teaching, and there were some even among his staff, but considering the size of his church, he did a fairly good job of overseeing them, and rebuking and teaching them.

The soul winners became quite competitive at times, and many even turned in false reports, I know this for a fact, they didn't even go, but they tried to win a contest or something. Those may the people that mis-represent the Gospel, but to crucify Dr. Hyles is not right. I use that strong language because I have seen these types of posts here before, and they get pretty rough themselves. To call a man a heretic that has led as many people to the Lord as he has is foolishness and exposes the speaker as a jealous fool. He has led enough to the Lord that even if they were "accidently saved" they would outnumber most of the critics against him in souls won!

With that, I give you back your post.

[Pastorj]

There were two men who were at the forefront of this "Easy Believism": Dr. Gray and Dr. Hyles. I have gone out soul-winning with a number of hyles graduates. I have 2 pastor friends who refute Hyles' methods of soul-winning and they are actually good soul-winners. The rest of those that I have gone with have "led" many to Christ while out with me and I can tell you that not one of these individuals got saved. One example was at a church in Florida. I went out with a man and it was my turn to witness. I got through the entire plan of salvation and asked if she wanted to get saved. She said "NO". I thanked her, gave her a tract and was about ready to leave her porch when my partner asked her if we could pray with her. She agreed and he led her in the sinners prayer. Afterwards, I told her that she was not saved and still needed to be. My partner was so upset that we quit for the day.

Had I not been there, he would have counted her as saved. This is very typical of the Hyles crowd. I had a missionary in Haiti that led "17000" people to the Lord in 1 month. There is not a chance in this world that he led that many in one month.

The issue with this is simply they are giving a false assurance of salvation. The gospel they are giving is not "The Gospel", but as Paul said, it is another gospel, a gospel of works. Pray this prayer and you will go to Heaven.

Paul said to rebuke these individuals and so I do: Jack Hyles is directly responsible for hundred/thousands of people going to Hell because of his teaching of another gospel.

You may not like to hear that, but unfortunately it is true! The same can be true of men who were once great men of God, but got consumed with numbers as the pressure to succeed mounted.

Jack Schaap is even worse than Hyles in his doctrine.

[irishman]

Pastorj
Are you so naive that you don't realize that not every Hyles graduate does things the way Dr. Hyles recommends? I too went with many of them soul winning, and I know what you mean, but to say that Dr. Hyles taught them to do that is foolishness. I am sorry that you are on a seemingly constant tirade against a great preacher and soul winner. Every church that is known as a soul winning church has an element of "nuts", including 1st Baptist Church. I do not comment on Dr. Schaap, but Dr. hyles was a mighty man of God. If you think otherwise, so be it, but please don't spread your biased poison on to those who may be respectful of a work that God has definitely blessed.

As for the guy that claimed so many souls being saved in one month, the same happens in the teen department during a drive to win as many as they can. It is a matter of growing up! It sounds more like something Carl Hatch would say! (I went soul winning with him too, and was not impressed, but if he gets half of what he claims, he is still doing a great job for the Lord.)

Edited April 10, 2012 by irishman

[Pastorj]

Irishman,

It is not me that is naive. Hyles was a man of God until he got so full of himself and his numbers. God is clear that we are to mark those that are heretics and Dr. Hyles in the latter part of his life was responsible for a gospel that is not based on the Word of God. Just recently, Hyles's Bus director spoke at our church and he gave numerous examples of people "getting saved". In every example, I turned to my wife and said that what he explained was not a salvation experience, it was just a prayer.

I know men who have graduated from Hyles that will tell you that in bus meetings and soul winning training it was all about getting people to pray without concern for whether they were repentant.

I could give example after example and it will not convince you, but the truth is clear that Jack Hyles is directly responsible for thousands of people "praying" and having a false assurance that they will end up in Heaven, but unfortunately they will end up in Hell.

I will continue to fight this easy believism heresy as often as I can.