So where can I reply concerning the tithing thread?

[Guest Guest]

The Christians that I know that have been unemployed, have given much time to the IFB church---when they were employed. Since, they are unemployed, they give additional time to the church.

The church needs custodians and grounds keepers too!

That is what they do with their time, as apposed to tithe. I have seen this at both of my IFB churches.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="Seth Doty"][quote="candlelight"]Well...I have known people who have given in other ways to the church. They give a LOT of their time. For example, I have known unemployed couples that have worked in the local IFB church to make up for the tithe...so to speak. Then, when they get back on their feet...they continue to give financially. As they can.[/quote]

It is certainly a good thing to give of their time, but I agree with John(although for different reasons) that it isn't to make up for a lack of tithe so to speak. The tithe is always on new increase, so if you are out of work and not making any money, you certainly don't owe a tithe on what you didn't make. The purpose of the tithe was, and always has been to honor God and to show thankfulness for what God has given. Taking care of his work was a side effect of that.

[color=#0000FF]"Proverbs 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:"[/color][/quote]


I cannot speak for their hearts, other than what I posted---as fact. I find it rather admirable that they would do this, though. :thumb Again, I find that many IFB churches have wonderful Christians in them. God should be glorified, praised, and honored as such. :-)

[Guest Guest]

Just give as God directs you by his Word and Holy Spirit! Move on..................don't worry what everyone else is doing or says!

trc's phrase comes from: trc...I have been wanting to do this for some time.

Matthew 23:23-24...23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. KJV 1611 AV.

[JerryNumbers]

Quite clearly, the one who has no income has not prospered.



2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

1 Cor 16:2 (KJV)

[John81]

If that farmer started out with 10 sheep, the sheep had five lambs, his family ate the lambs and he still had the ten sheep next year, there certainly was an increase. He just used it. Just look at taxes as a very rough equivelent. Do you pay the government income tax on what you make when you make it or on what you have left over at the end of the year above what you had the year before?

In the OT they tithed on the harvest, on the new sheep and goats born, etc. What you are saying would be equal to tithing on the leftovers, the new animals that were not eaten or used up in some way during the course of the year. That number would generally be small.

If those ten sheep had lambs then there would have been an increase regardless of what the farmer decided to do with the increase. In the example I was giving, I was saying the ten sheep didn't produce any offspring during the year so there was no increase.

As you point out, increase is profit. If a person or family works an entire year yet never makes a profit, no increase, are they still expected to tithe?

Government taxes and the OT tithe are not rightly comparable.

[John81]

In the New Testament, grace entered in, why do we follow Jesus and keep His commandments?

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (KJV)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 5:3 (KJV)

We do so because we love our Lord and Savior and we desire to please Him, not because we have to.

So no, I am not under the law to give 10%, I'm under grace

Does being under grace give me a right to sin, no. But when one is under grace, they do it out of love, not because it is the law.

And I agree with Seth, some use the expression, "I'll give as the Lord leads me to not give at all and or to give very little." But I'm not going to judge their giving, because it is of grace, not of the law. But we all know that God's way is not grievous, except for those who fail to have the love of the Lord.

Actually the one released from the law will go way far beyond the call to duty, amazing what liberty and love will do for the human.

:goodpost:

[John81]

Quite clearly, the one who has no income has not prospered.



2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

1 Cor 16:2 (KJV)

Exactly!

[Guest Guest]

[quote]As you point out, increase is profit. If a person or family works an entire year yet never makes a profit, no increase, are they still expected to tithe?
[/quote]

Give me an example of that. I could see how that "might" happen if you are self employed but if you work for a employer he is going to pay you for your work. If you get paid for your labor, you made an increase. I just don't see many people who work for a year and make no profit...

[John81]

I see all sorts of people around here that just barely get by or fall farther and farther behind each year. Most make no increase at all while a few make a very tiny increase.

Just because one is working and getting paid doesn't mean they are getting any increase. Millions live on subsistence incomes.

[Guest Guest]

I see all sorts of people around here that just barely get by or fall farther and farther behind each year. Most make no increase at all while a few make a very tiny increase.

Just because one is working and getting paid doesn't mean they are getting any increase. Millions live on subsistence incomes.

Well, I believe you are misunderstanding the meaning of increase then. Your increase or profit isn't just "spare" "extra" money.

Lets look at how the word is used biblically:

"Genesis 47:23-25 Then Joseph said unto the people, Behold, I have bought you this day and your land for Pharaoh: lo, here is seed for you, and ye shall sow the land. And it shall come to pass in the increase, that ye shall give the fifth part unto Pharaoh, and four parts shall be your own, for seed of the field, and for your food, and for them of your households, and for food for your little ones. And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants."


"Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year."

"2 Chronicles 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly."

It is clear that none of these verses are speaking of the leftovers.

[John81]

No, I'm not speaking of leftovers, but of increase.

When you plant a few seeds (Lord willing) you reap many more seeds. There has been increase. That's vastly different from earning a paycheck that doesn't allow any increase or may not even be enough to keep one "even".

[Guest Guest]

When you plant a few seeds (Lord willing) you reap many more seeds. There has been increase. That's vastly different from earning a paycheck that doesn't allow any increase or may not even be enough to keep one "even".

I guess I just don't understand your logic here, it seems exactly the same to me. We work, we make money. That money is the fruit of our labor and what we made is increase just as surely as the crops, the fruit of the farmers labor, are his increase.

[John81]

Joe and Bob are both farmers. Joe's cattle breed abundantly and he gains over a hundred head this year. He's obviously experienced increase. Meanwhile Bob's cattle were barren during this year, obviously no increase.

Joe has prospered while Bob has not. Joe can move beyond his station at the beginning of the year while Bob can't.

Consider the same situation with Joe and Bob working in a factory. Joe is promoted to higher paying job in another department. Bob remains on the low end line making minimum wage only this year prices have soared which makes his paycheck worth less than it was the previous year. While Joe has increased his salary, Bob's salary has effectively been decreased. Joe is prospering while Bob isn't.

[Guest Guest]

The first example makes sense, but the second is not an equal comparison. Both Joe and Bob are having increase in the second example, Joes increase is simply greater. In the first example Bob gained nothing at all, in the second he still made money, just not as much as Joe.

Joe can move beyond his station at the beginning of the year

I think this is the key to what you are misunderstanding. That is not the biblical meaning of increase.

[heartstrings]

Jos