So where can I reply concerning the tithing thread?

[John81]

Yes, most speak of tithing as meaing to give 10% but for whatever reason, even most who claim to be tithers or believe in tithing don't give that much. And yes, those who tithe and then give beyond that, can still rightly claim to be tithing.

You also point out another aspect I see argued a lot; just what is "increase"? There are some who work hard all year long and barely see any actual increase and some actually lose; they see no increase. For such people, if they were to tithe on their increase, their tithe would be very, very tiny or nothing.

[John81]

Straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel!

Okay, I'm curious. I've noticed you make similar posts in several threads. What's the point?

[Guest Guest]

Well...I have known people who have given in other ways to the church. They give a LOT of their time. For example' date=' I have known unemployed couples that have worked in the local IFB church to make up for the tithe...so to speak. Then, when they get back on their feet...they continue to give financially. As they can.[/quote']

It is certainly a good thing to give of their time, but I agree with John(although for different reasons) that it isn't to make up for a lack of tithe so to speak. The tithe is always on new increase, so if you are out of work and not making any money, you certainly don't owe a tithe on what you didn't make. The purpose of the tithe was, and always has been to honor God and to show thankfulness for what God has given. Taking care of his work was a side effect of that.

"Proverbs 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:"

[Pastorj]

Seth,

That's OT and we certainly don't think that "All Scripture is given by Inspiration of God." Therefore we are not obligated to tithe. Even though tithing was established before the Law and re-iterated after the Law. The part of the OT that we are no longer under is the 35% offerings that were required in the OT. The tithe is still applicable today.

What really makes me laugh is that the passage quoted in 1 Cor. has nothing to do with tithing, it is actually dealing with Missions.

[trc123]

Okay, I'm curious. I've noticed you make similar posts in several threads. What's the point?

Just give as God directs you by his Word and Holy Spirit! Move on..................don't worry what everyone else is doing or says!

[John81]

For many people, they wouldn't be tithing at all until near the end of the year (if at all) because even though they are working they are simply getting by and not making any increase at all or only a tiny bit near the end of the year when they finally pass the breaking even point.

Even so, most who preach the tithe say they are to give 10% of every check they bring home even though they have not increased and may even be experiencing decrease.

Myself, I believe the Lord did then, and does now, move those with more to give more which more than "offsets" the fact some either can't give or can only give a small amount.

Sadly, many poor and elderly folks go into debt attempting to tithe because a preacher told them they had to or they would be robbing God.

[John81]

Seth,

That's OT and we certainly don't think that "All Scripture is given by Inspiration of God." Therefore we are not obligated to tithe. Even though tithing was established before the Law and re-iterated after the Law. The part of the OT that we are no longer under is the 35% offerings that were required in the OT. The tithe is still applicable today.

What really makes me laugh is that the passage quoted in 1 Cor. has nothing to do with tithing, it is actually dealing with Missions.

We could always relate it to the dresses and pants issue. :Green

[John81]

Just give as God directs you by his Word and Holy Spirit! Move on..................don't worry what everyone else is doing or says!

Well, that's what I'm doing.

[Guest Guest]

Yes, most speak of tithing as meaing to give 10% but for whatever reason, even most who claim to be tithers or believe in tithing don't give that much.

Just curious, but how could you possibly know that? :puzzled: The only way I can think of is if you were a money counter at church, and knew who talked about tithing, knew about how much they made, and knew about how much they gave.... Other than that... no way to know...

You also point out another aspect I see argued a lot; just what is "increase"? There are some who work hard all year long and barely see any actual increase and some actually lose; they see no increase. For such people, if they were to tithe on their increase, their tithe would be very, very tiny or nothing.

There are different views on this, but as I read scripture, increase is what we would call your net. Your "profit". If you don't make money, you can certainly give an offering, but unless you had a net income it isn't a tithe.

[John81]

While I didn't specify in that particular post, I had mentioned in others I was speaking from my personal experience only. Sorry for any confusion. Over the years, talking with Christians and a few pastors, this is my personal experience.

I agree, with regards to OT tithing, it was to be on the increase only. I've actually never encountered a pastor or individual Christian who holds to that view of tithing, and I've only read of very few who do. The vast majority who preach tithing preach to give 10% of whatever you get whether it's increase or not.

[Guest Guest]

For many people, they wouldn't be tithing at all until near the end of the year (if at all) because even though they are working they are simply getting by and not making any increase at all or only a tiny bit near the end of the year when they finally pass the breaking even point.

Even so, most who preach the tithe say they are to give 10% of every check they bring home even though they have not increased and may even be experiencing decrease.

Myself, I believe the Lord did then, and does now, move those with more to give more which more than "offsets" the fact some either can't give or can only give a small amount.

Sadly, many poor and elderly folks go into debt attempting to tithe because a preacher told them they had to or they would be robbing God.

I agree, with regards to OT tithing, it was to be on the increase only. I've actually never encountered a pastor or individual Christian who holds to that view of tithing, and I've only read of very few who do. The vast majority who preach tithing preach to give 10% of whatever you get whether it's increase or not.

I think we need to define increase a little more because from the top quote I am not 100% sure we are thinking the same thing. If you work for an employer, and most of us do, your increase is what you take home at the end of the day in exchange for your work. It is NOT "extra" money you have left over after you have paid all your bills, etc. When they tithed on their grain for example in the OT, they tithed on what was produced at harvest, not on what left over after they had taken out what they would need for the year etc.

The equivelent of your "harvest" is`what I think a Christian should tithe on. Profit. For an individual, that is most likely going to be the check they get at the end of the week or month. For a business owner, that might be what is left after materials and non asset business related costs are deducted.

[John81]

If a family starts out the year worth 30,000 dollars and ends the year worth 30,000 dollars they have increased nothing.

When a farmer had ten sheep he wouldn't tithe the sheep unless they increased. If he started with 10 sheep and ended with 10 sheep there would be no increase.

Just because a person brings home a paycheck doesn't mean there has been an increase. Many folks on fixed incomes get their monthly checks yet those checks don't even break them even so there is no increase.

[Guest Guest]

If a family starts out the year worth 30,000 dollars and ends the year worth 30,000 dollars they have increased nothing.

When a farmer had ten sheep he wouldn't tithe the sheep unless they increased. If he started with 10 sheep and ended with 10 sheep there would be no increase.

Just because a person brings home a paycheck doesn't mean there has been an increase. Many folks on fixed incomes get their monthly checks yet those checks don't even break them even so there is no increase.

If that farmer started out with 10 sheep, the sheep had five lambs, his family ate the lambs and he still had the ten sheep next year, there certainly was an increase. He just used it. Just look at taxes as a very rough equivelent. Do you pay the government income tax on what you make when you make it or on what you have left over at the end of the year above what you had the year before?

In the OT they tithed on the harvest, on the new sheep and goats born, etc. What you are saying would be equal to tithing on the leftovers, the new animals that were not eaten or used up in some way during the course of the year. That number would generally be small.

[PastorHarrison]

Not trying to take the thread in another direction, but I am curious as I have read along the many posts in this thread that it seems some here think that the cross released the N.T. believer from the [all O.T.] law, which we gentiles were not under to begin with, and that as such anything written therein is not applicable to the life of the N.T. Christian. Yes we know that the law never saved, but salvation isn't the issue in the living of the Christian life...and in this Christian life, there are requirements or standards of conduct {contained in the law of course} which, some aspects of the law, particularly the moral laws, are no less in effect than they were when Moses got wrote down. Idolatry, for example, is no less a sin today than it was 3500 yrs ago when it was given in the law to Moses and we {age of grace washed in the blood redeemed from the curse of the law Christians} who have been released from having to submit to the ceremonial portions of the law, are not, as many seem to think, any less under the moral law than any human being ever was.

I ask this only because it seems to me that many, many Christians find so much contained in the O.T. that they disagree with and don't like, that they consider it reprehensible to even mention it or apply it to us today. Its as if the Law (lumped all together as a whole) is something N.T. Christians are ashamed of and don't talk about....let alone face the realization that much of it applies today!

I find this truth manifested in many subjects of Christianity today.....not just this subject but many others as well wherein something is prohibited or otherwise condemned.

[JerryNumbers]

In the New Testament, grace entered in, why do we follow Jesus and keep His commandments?

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:15 (KJV)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 5:3 (KJV)

We do so because we love our Lord and Savior and we desire to please Him, not because we have to.

So no, I am not under the law to give 10%, I'm under grace

Does being under grace give me a right to sin, no. But when one is under grace, they do it out of love, not because it is the law.

And I agree with Seth, some use the expression, "I'll give as the Lord leads me to not give at all and or to give very little." But I'm not going to judge their giving, because it is of grace, not of the law. But we all know that God's way is not grievous, except for those who fail to have the love of the Lord.

Actually the one released from the law will go way far beyond the call to duty, amazing what liberty and love will do for the human.