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Trayvon Martin case: A collision of race, guns and Florida law

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Trayvon Martin case: A collision of race, guns and Florida law

Of course none of us have all the facts, yet this looks bad, a young black boy 17 years of age walking back from the store having bought a iced tea & package of Skittles, & a 28 year old shoots him down.

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It would never have made national headlines if the one who died wasn't black.

They really tried to push this story because at first they thought the shooter was white. It wasn't until later someone in his family pointed out that he's hispanic, but the story was already national by then.

The shooter is some kind of neighborhood watch captain or something. It seems there has been a history of trouble in the area. The one who shot him claims the black youth was up to no good, he confronted him, they fought, he shot him.

The one shot has family claiming he was a good kid.

We really don't know, and now with so much national attention on this because of some wanting to turn this into a racial issue that must play out on the national stage so the likes of Sharpton and such can grab some headlines, we may never know the truth.

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I agree that this should not be played as a race factor (there is a town 17 miles from here that if I was there in the evening it would arouse concern and suspicion because I'm not Mexican -- not because they are racist but because my presence would be considered out of line with their normal evening setting).

We don't have all the info; with what we do have, the shooter made some glaring errors that predicated this event.

Neither neighborhood watch nor CCW licensing makes you a "second line" LEO. He called 911 - good move, he continued to follow in his automobile - the appropriateness of this can be debated till the cows come home, he stayed on line with the 911 dispatch - good move, he walked up to the "suspicious person" to confront or interview -- WRONG multiplied times wrong!

A citizen who is not LE can defend himself, can confront someone on or in their property or place of business, can defend a 3rd party in a situation where if they were the victim the situation justified the level of defense --------- but any level or form of pursuit just nullified your defense unless your legal level of authorization is equal to or exceeds the level of pursuit you employed (usually, but not always, LE on some level).

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I agree that this should not be played as a race factor (there is a town 17 miles from here that if I was there in the evening it would arouse concern and suspicion because I'm not Mexican -- not because they are racist but because my presence would be considered out of line with their normal evening setting).

We don't have all the info; with what we do have, the shooter made some glaring errors that predicated this event.

Neither neighborhood watch nor CCW licensing makes you a "second line" LEO. He called 911 - good move, he continued to follow in his automobile - the appropriateness of this can be debated till the cows come home, he stayed on line with the 911 dispatch - good move, he walked up to the "suspicious person" to confront or interview -- WRONG multiplied times wrong!

A citizen who is not LE can defend himself, can confront someone on or in their property or place of business, can defend a 3rd party in a situation where if they were the victim the situation justified the level of defense --------- but any level or form of pursuit just nullified your defense unless your legal level of authorization is equal to or exceeds the level of pursuit you employed (usually, but not always, LE on some level).

That's a pretty good assessment based upon what I've heard in the news.

It seems the shooter was worried the guy would get away and was more intent on making sure that didn't happen than following good procedure. Even the 911 operator told him to stay back.

No doubt much wrong was done and I doubt we will ever hear the whole story. Either the shooter will face no charges because of the self-defense law in Florida, or there will be such a push by the race baiters he'll be charged whether he should be or not.

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He probably will not get self-defense to hold since he left the car in pursuit (doesn't have to be a chase) of an individual who has not committed a crime and seems to be seeking to leave.

From what they were saying on the news, the way the Florida law is written, regardless of the circumstances, if he felt threatened he has the legal right to shoot to kill.

It's really hard to tell now since the media and race baiters are so involved.

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Federal officials are investigating the incident to see if there was a hate crime that would allow them to prosecute.

Typically murdering someone (if it's a murder at all) is not done out of love, so...That's just plain ridiculous.

Looks like a very confusing story...
God bless,
Joel ><>.

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Typically murdering someone (if it's a murder at all) is not done out of love, so...That's just plain ridiculous.

Looks like a very confusing story...
God bless,
Joel ><>.

Well, according to the feds and PC crowd, certain crimes are worse if certain kinds of "hate" are involved.

The feds have no jurisdiction in this case unless they can call it a racial hate crime. Of course, constitutionally speaking, even in that case they don't really have any jurisdiction, they just take it.

It's a messed up case. From some of what has been said on the news, this seems like a high crime area where a lot of the criminals get away and this neighborhood watch guy was fed up. Not an excuse to act stupid or wrongly, but that seems to be a factor.

At the same time, isn't it telling that when blacks commit crimes against whites and call out all kinds of racial slurs, it's almost always excused and not considered a hate crime. However, if anyone of any race says anything even remotely racial while interacting with a black person, it's automatically a hate crime.

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Perhaps not, but it looks to be that this was uncalled for, & if the man had obeyed the police when he called them, it would not have happened.

Of course we have not enough fact to make a good judgment who was in the wrong.

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The problem is that if he saw a movement or object that he believed posed an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm (even though it was later determined not to be what was initially believed) he would be justified --- BUT, when he left his car not to go somewhere (general or specific) but to follow and overtake (pursue) the individual before an attempt of an illegal act he then greatly compromised his legal standing.

I'm not a lawyer, I am certified to train Fla. CCW applicants (not that big of a deal, NRA instructor) but also am a state certified firearms instructor for 4 other states that require 1-3 additional hours instructional time per class teaching CC, OC, and lethal force laws.

btw, he didn't talk to the police but a 911 operator -- he still should have listened

Edited by OLD fashioned

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And most people being followed by someone banishing a gun might get scared, doing something that might be perceived as a threat.

Seems this young man was a wanttobe policeman.

If he was going to do anything, he should have just kept this young boy in his sight, from a distance.

If he was carrying iced tea, & a package of skittles, he should not be deemed a threat.

Right, the 911 operator, but he received some good advise, & not following it, he put himself in a foolish position.

That is what I gather from the few facts that been given.

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The situation was a mess and neither of them acted as best they could have.

The question they will most focus on is likely whether or not the shooter provoked the incidence. If they can prove he provoked the incidence then the Florida self defense law won't cover him. If they determine he was simply following the guy who got shot and that guy turned and confronted him, then made some threatening move or action, then the Florida self defense law will cover him.

From the evidence the police have discussed, the shooter had suffered a physical assault, but there is not really any way to tell who started that.

The foolish and inflamatory focus upon race only makes this case worse and more difficult to rightly deal with.

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I wonder, as he followed this young man, 17 years of age is a very young man, did he have his pistol in hand, or wearing it at his side in a holster?

I figure if a person in street clothes was following me holding a pistol in hand, or in a holster on their side, I would get uneasy, even if I lived in the area. And something a person does due to such an event.

I used the word 'street clothes,' for he was not a policeman, so I suppose he was in street clothes.

One had a gun, the other does not, & the one with the gun shoots the other one. Sounds to me that the one with the gun would be doing the provoking just by having a gun, & especially if he had it in his hand. No matter what color either of them were.


I don't know, it just smells fishy to me, it sure needs check out thoroughly.

Edited by Jerry80871852

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Open carry (worn outside of clothing) is not legal in Fl. If he has already presented the firearm while "following" the young man, he has already broken Fl law.

17 is young, but I have seen 8 and 9 year olds in juvenile detention for murder

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Open carry (worn outside of clothing) is not legal in Fl. If he has already presented the firearm while "following" the young man, he has already broken Fl law.

17 is young, but I have seen 8 and 9 year olds in juvenile detention for murder

Ever notice how if the media is on the side of a 17 year old they often refer to him as a boy or child but if they are against the 17 year old they don't use those terms?

At 17 one is a young man.

One thing is for certain, you couldn't pay me enough money to live in a city.

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This is an interesting article - Friend of Martin Shooter: I'd Do The Same Thing.
God bless,
Joel ><>.

One thing is for certain, we don't know what it's like in that area, how bad things are and what these people have been up to.

I've known some people who lived in pretty bad areas of cities and they were very jumpy and quick to act because they had faced so much crime and violence.

Should a president of the United States really be making racial based statements like this? Imagine what the media would have done had a 17 year old white been shot in a case like this and President Bush had said if he had a son his son would have looked like the one shot. I really tire of one standard for blacks, another for whites and sometimes yet another for some other races.

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hmmm, seems he was more than just a wanna-be cop --he may have been actively preparing for an LE future. He was taking working toward a A.A.in Criminal Justice (a prerequisite for some most police academies in Fl).

He still strayed outside of Fl law in his actions.

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hmmm, seems he was more than just a wanna-be cop --he may have been actively preparing for an LE future. He was taking working toward a A.A.in Criminal Justice (a prerequisite for some most police academies in Fl).

He still strayed outside of Fl law in his actions.

For most cops I'm familiar with, that's normal.

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The article I read stated that Mr. Obama said, "It needs to be thoroughly investigated," I agree 100%, it deserves to be thoroughly investigated for a 17 year old carrying ice tea while eating skittles has been shot down. With that said it would probably be better had he not made no statement.

I stated he was a wanttobe policeman, for I had read that he had been in training, or taking schooling towards being a policemen. Sounds like he was out practicing in his own neighborhood & it backfired on him.

If it had been my child I would be totally upset too.

In the article Joel posted, the man that does the same thing in this neighborhood as the shooter does, & took up for him. leaves his pistol at home.

One thing I disagree with, the family, or maybe friends has stated something like this, He ought to be arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced. It should only be thoroughly investigated by people that have no connection whatsoever with the shooter, & if wrong was done them let the law proceed.

Of course what I stated is based only on the articles I’ve read about this deed.

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Did you know that over St. Patrick's Day weekend there were 49 black on black shootings in the southside of Chicago with twelve deaths and not once did you hear a peep out of the Rev. Al Dullton or Jesse "High Five" Jackson? I guess none of those young men and children reminded Obama (who did all of his community work in the southside of Chicago) of his own children.

Edited by Wilchbla

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Did you know that over St. Patrick's Day weekend there were 49 black on black shootings in the southside of Chicago with twelve deaths and not once did you hear a peep out of the Rev. Al Dullton or Jesse "High Five" Jackson? I guess none of those young men and children reminded Obama (who did all of his community work in the southside of Chicago) of his own children.

I was just going to raise this point. It's rather disingenuous for so many folks to get all worked up over this one crime when every day in America so many people are murdered, shot, beat and raped yet the media, the black "leaders", those protesting studens and the president don't say a word about it.

When President Bush was in office, before the surge in Iraq, and the media was blowing the deaths in Iraq out of proportion, someone pointed out that each day the media reported on the number of deaths in Iraq and used that to attack Bush, there were more murders in American cities each of those days than in Iraq.

The fact is, most of those crying out about this one crime are only doing so because of alterior motives. When is the president going to call on blacks to stop killing blacks every day of the week, or call upon rap and hip-hop "artists" to stop glorfying murder, rape and attacks upon white people and cops, when are the black "leaders" going to hold press conferences about all the black on black crime in the cities, when are they going to march through the cities facing the black gangs down, when are they going to call black parents to responsibility? When are they going to care as much about a white or hispanic that gets killed by a black person?

All this phony outrage is so hypocritical. Had many of these truly cared about such things and really wanted to do something about crime, they would have been involved before, not just looking for an opportunity to get their 15 minutes of fame while they act outraged.

No doubt, the family and friends of the one killed, as well as a few others, really are upset and care about this incident, but for those all over the TV, including the president, this is just a publicity opportunity and chance to appear concerned.

If so many people cared so much they could be organizing and working to clean up high crime areas, working to restore families, working to provide real education (not the failure of public education), they would get involved in mentoring, they would take the Gospel to the lost, invite people in these areas to church, actually do something to lift people up rather than giving them excuses to be a burden upon society with one hand out and the other grabbing someone elses stuff.

This goes for all races. It may be especially bad in some black parts of cities, but there are also hispanic and white areas that are bad too. If these publicity talkers would become doers perhaps something postive could be done. What they are doing now is calling for what amounts to an execution of the shooter without fact finding or trial.

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Anyone notice when this story first broke the media used the image Trayvon had posted of himself on Facebook trying to look like a gangsta but now they only show a photo of him looking more like he's ten? They also talk of Trayvon as if he was a small, childlike and defenseless kid rather than point out he was 6 foot 3 inches, weighed over 200 pounds and played football.

The media can't be trusted.

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The image on Facebook may have been the only one they had acess to at 1st.


REPORT: NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY ISSUES ‘WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE’ POSTER FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

Nothing right about this, seems this ought to be against the law.


Black Friend Defends Shooter of Florida Teen

Seems he has a black friend that takes up for him.

Seems in america when something like this happens many want revenge, not justices.

At the moment Dateline is having covering this this subject, media will make it so a fair trial is impossible.

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