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Wilchbla

Matthew 10:23

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But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


What's up with this verse? Never understood this one. The apostles did go over the cities of Israel and then some and yet the Son of man never came. I've heard some crazy theories about this passage as well as the ones in Matthew 24 concerning the apostles. They are dead and gone yet Jesus never returned although both chapters suggest that he would in the lifetime of the apostles. One theory I've heard is that the apostles might actually return and preach during the tribulation kind of like Moses and Elijah appeared to the disciples on the mount.

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But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


What's up with this verse? Never understood this one. The apostles did go over the cities of Israel and then some and yet the Son of man never came. I've heard some crazy theories about this passage as well as the ones in Matthew 24 concerning the apostles. They are dead and gone yet Jesus never returned although both chapters suggest that he would in the lifetime of the apostles. One theory I've heard is that the apostles might actually return and preach during the tribulation kind of like Moses and Elijah appeared to the disciples on the mount.


A bit like the theory of evolution. Someone doesn't know so they make up their own teaching, same as the secret rapture theory.

edited for spelling. Edited by Invicta

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The rapture is not a secret. It's a MYSTERY. Only a secret to the hard hearted.

Nobody else to take a crack at this verse?


The Plymouth Brethren taught it, and they should know, they invented the teaching.

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The Plymouth Brethren taught it, and they should know, they invented the teaching.


Stop skirting the issue. Even with your theology you can't explain Matthew 10:23. Edited by Wilchbla

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Stop skirting the issue. Even with your theology you can't explain Matthew 10:23.


No I don't think I can. It is a scripture that I have read many times without thinking about how.

So, how do you explain it? I suppose one question we should ask is "How was it fulfilled?" Another would be "Comes to where?" Because we cannot see an obvious fulfillment, it doesn't mean it wasn't fulfilled. Edited by Invicta

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5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 ¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

First, look at the context. He was sending the 12 out. It was them he was speaking to, so the comment must concern them in this mission. Verses 17- 20 seem to have been fulfulled in Acts.

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So you are saying that the phrase, "the Son of man be come" was fulfilled in Acts? I guess you don't believe in the literal return of Christ. You almost sound amillennial here. This is how a papist would teach the verse.

I would agree with you that vss 17-20 could have been fulfilled in Acts yet the problem remains, the Son of man never came unless it is a reference to Christ's coming to Jerusalem prior to the passover but that sounds like a stretch.

Edited by Wilchbla

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So you are saying that the phrase, "the Son of man be come" was fulfilled in Acts? I guess you don't believe in the literal return of Christ. You almost sound amillennial here. This is how a papist would teach the verse.

I would agree with you that vss 17-20 could have been fulfilled in Acts yet the problem remains, the Son of man never came unless it is a reference to Christ's coming to Jerusalem prior to the passover but that sounds like a stretch.

From our viewpoint we understand the Son of man coming as the glorious second coming for resurrection & judgment. Is this what Jesus meant? How many other "comings" are there? Certainly his triumphal entry:
5
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh u
nt
o thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Also his coming to destroy the wicked husbandmen in AD 70:
40
When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do u
nt
o those husbandmen?

41
They say u
nt
o him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard u
nt
o
ot
her husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

And the equally cryptic "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" in the lifetime of some of the Apostles. But is that 2 future comings, or - Transfiguration? Pentecost? Destruction? Yet future second coming?
27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28
Verily I say u
nt
o you, There be some standing here, which shall n
ot
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

I see v. 27 as the future second coming, with the transfiguration a vision of his glory, while Pentecost as the inauguration of his kingdom.
30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was n
ot
left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


To answer the OP question, I suggest that Jesus' warning in Mat. 10 is a prophecy of the events recorded in Acts, culminating in their rejection & persecution, followed by Jesus "coming" for the destruction of the wolves. The warning is separate from the instructions to the disciples for their preaching/healing mission. Mark & Luke do not include that prophecy in the instructions to the disciples, nor was it fulfilled then.

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Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

This phrase denotes the immediacy of the fulfillment, i.e. before the 12 completed their journey through the land. Nothing to do with a-mil teaching, or any other mil teaching. Could be, as covenenter suggested, when he came on an ass, or it could be before Christ came to join them.

I also asked what you thought, I don't think you answered.

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From our viewpoint we understand the Son of man coming as the glorious second coming for resurrection & judgment. Is this what Jesus meant? How many other "comings" are there? Certainly his triumphal entry:


5
Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh u
nt
o thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Also his coming to destroy the wicked husbandmen in AD 70:

40
When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do u
nt
o those husbandmen?

41
They say u
nt
o him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard u
nt
o
ot
her husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

And the equally cryptic "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" in the lifetime of some of the Apostles. But is that 2 future comings, or - Transfiguration? Pentecost? Destruction? Yet future second coming?

27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

28
Verily I say u
nt
o you, There be some standing here, which shall n
ot
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

I see v. 27 as the future second coming, with the transfiguration a vision of his glory, while Pentecost as the inauguration of his kingdom.

30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was n
ot
left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


To answer the OP question, I suggest that Jesus' warning in Mat. 10 is a prophecy of the events recorded in Acts, culminating in their rejection & persecution, followed by Jesus "coming" for the destruction of the wolves. The warning is separate from the instructions to the disciples for their preaching/healing mission. Mark & Luke do not include that prophecy in the instructions to the disciples, nor was it fulfilled then.


The term "Son of man come" seems to be exclusive to the Second Coming. Even on the mount of transfiguration where the three disciples saw the Second Coming in type.

II Peter 1:16-19

[16] For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
[17] For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
[18] And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
[19] We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

The disciples saw the coming kingdom in TYPE on the mount. It is clear from what Peter is saying here that that's what Christ was referring to. It had nothing to do with some spiritual kingdom coming via the church to replace the promises to Israel. Christ gave them a glimpse of his kingdom 2000+ years into the future via his transfiguration. Edited by Wilchbla

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