Members Eric Stahl Posted April 10, 2012 Members Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) "will be redeemed at the great white throne judgement" Nobody will be redeemed at the great white throne judgement. I'm sure you made a mistake here...have another cup of coffee... Romans 8:23 explains that the redemption is for the body. Even the unsaved will be redeemed physically for judgment at the Great White Throne. Edited April 10, 2012 by Eric Stahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted April 10, 2012 Members Share Posted April 10, 2012 I would think that all the redeemed were redeemed when Chrsit arose from the grave. Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Ephesians 4:8 KJV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 It'd be nice, but how would that work with "it is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement"? I agree. This was the first time I had ever heard of this idea so I thought I would see if others had any thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Romans 8:23 explains that the redemption is for the body. Even the unsaved will be redeemed physically for judgment at the Great White Throne. On the one hand, at best you chose words recklessly; on the other hand, at worst you are waaaay out to lunch. I believe the following tells who and what appears at the great white throne... Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 On the one hand, at best you chose words recklessly; on the other hand, at worst you are waaaay out to lunch. I believe the following tells who and what appears at the great white throne... Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 1 Tim 115' The dead that will stand before God will be redeemed from the earth both body and soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 1 Tim 115' The dead that will stand before God will be redeemed from the earth both body and soul. Eric, redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ which none at the great white throne can claim. You bolded the wrong part of the verse. Christ opens "the book of life" those present won't be in it and they are judged "according to their works" we who are saved are not saved by our works. These folks are not redeemed people. My physical body will not be present at the the great white throne judgement, if your's will be then I don't know what to tell you. Dead bodies of saints (the saved) aren't judged. My body of corruption will have long since dissipated and I will be a spirit. I'll be running around in a new body and my only presence at the great white throne will be observation and possibly tears (Rev. 21:4). I do believe my physical body will be changed when God raises me from the dead or snatches me out of this place...whichever comes first. See 1 Cor. 15:35-54 and especially... 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seth Doty Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 I agree. This was the first time I had ever heard of this idea so I thought I would see if others had any thoughts on this. This "first resurrection" is a universal resurrection of all believers up to and including the tribulation saints that were killed during that time. The "first resurrection" is in multiple parts though, it is not a single one time event. For example Christ himself was part of this "first resurrection". Christ was raised as the firstfruits of this "first resurrection", then then believers are raised at Christs pre-trib coming for believers in the air, and lastly those saved & killed during the great trib are resurrected just prior to the thousand year reign of Christ. "The rest of the dead" refers to the unbelievers who are not raised & judged till the great white throne judgement after the end of the the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 1 Tim 115' The dead that will stand before God will be redeemed from the earth both body and soul. I know what your saying, but redeemed is the wrong word, the lost will not be redeemed, they will be resurrected, judged, & cast into the lake of fire, & that is not the same as being redeemed. Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z] redeemed REDEE'MED, pp. Ransomed; delivered from bondage, distress, penalty, liability, or from the possession of another, by paying an equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 I know what your saying, but redeemed is the wrong word, the lost will not be redeemed, they will be resurrected, judged, & cast into the lake of fire, & that is not the same as being redeemed. Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z] redeemed REDEE'MED, pp. Ransomed; delivered from bondage, distress, penalty, liability, or from the possession of another, by paying an equivalent. OK I see what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 This "first resurrection" is a universal resurrection of all believers up to and including the tribulation saints that were killed during that time. The "first resurrection" is in multiple parts though, it is not a single one time event. For example Christ himself was part of this "first resurrection". Christ was raised as the firstfruits of this "first resurrection", then then believers are raised at Christs pre-trib coming for believers in the air, and lastly those saved & killed during the great trib are resurrected just prior to the thousand year reign of Christ. "The rest of the dead" refers to the unbelievers who are not raised & judged till the great white throne judgement after the end of the the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. Seth-Doty there will also be a mid tribulation catching up see my post on "The five phases of the first resurection" (3) The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation 11:3,7-14 KJV, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-4 KJV, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4 KJV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 The first resurrection is spiritual - conversion - so John see the souls of the martyrs, living & reigning in heaven. We spiritual are already kings and priests unto God. Rev. 1: 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Eph. 2:1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; What is there to protect us from the second death - hell? Only the saving blood of Christ. The first resurrection takes place every time a soul is saved, & we are secure in Christ, & need have no fear of the second death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted April 11, 2012 Members Share Posted April 11, 2012 1 Tim 115' The dead that will stand before God will be redeemed from the earth both body and soul. I find it hard to work out what your reasoning is here. We, and all others who are redeemed, are bought by the blood of Christ, and that took place at his death and resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 OK I see what you mean. Tip of the hat to Jerry. That's all I was trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seth Doty Posted April 12, 2012 Members Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Seth-Doty there will also be a mid tribulation catching up see my post on "The five phases of the first resurection" (3) The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation 11:3,7-14 KJV, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-4 KJV, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4 KJV With the exception of the two witnesses, which are clearly raised mid trib, I consider your statement here to be rather tenuous and unprovable. The verses you reference don't prove it at all. Could it happen? Sure, but I don't think there is much if any scriptural evidence for it, and I can't see what the point of it would be anyway. If anything revelation 6:14 would seem to indicate against a further resurrection till the end of the trib. I think the key point is that Christ is the resurrection and the life and anyone who has believed on him will be part of the first resurrection when ever they are raised. No point in quibbling to much about a possible mid trib resurrection though as I can't see what doctrinal difference it would make and I don't expect to be here then anyway. :coolsmiley: Edited April 12, 2012 by Seth-Doty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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