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Did God Say to Blow Your Tithe Money on Beer in Deuteronomy?


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Strongs says that
shekar (shay-kawr)
an intoxicant, that is, an intensly alcoholic liquor- strong drink, + drunkard, strong wine.

We have already learned in our studies that the words translated “wine” (yayin) and “strong drink” (shekar) here are generic, and may refer to fresh grape juice and a sweet pleasant drink which was unfermented.

don't know where your book got the idea that it's a generic word for any old wine, be it fermented or not. the word shekar is never used for a fresh grape juice, not ever.

Numbers 6:3 uses 'wine" which is MIM, and YAYIM in hebrew and strong drink which is SHEKAR in the hebrew. i don't speak hebrew, but i can use a lexicon.

shekar shows up in some 20 verses, every time it's strong drink, every time it's a negative view of strong drink, alcoholic in nature, and never indicated it is grape juice.

God bless,
calvary

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From "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton G. Campbell:


First of all, it is necessary to reinforce the argument that the Hebrew word shekar (shakar, shecar)usually translated “strong drink,” is largely misunderstood, regarding its origin and true meaning, which does not always refer to an intoxicating beverage such as beer. The Reverend B. Parsons explains:
Shacar; from the verb, to satisfy, to please, to make merry, or yield perfect satisfaction. It is highly pr
ob
able that the term originally mea
nt
what was sweet or delightful either to the body or to the mind. We have before stated that the Hebrew shacar, the Arabic saccharon, the Greek sachar, the Latin saccharum, the French sucre, and the English sugar, have all sprung from the same original ro
ot
, and have all the same primary meaning; for in each language sweetness is the primitive idea. In Arabic, b
ot
h “honey”, and “palm wine”, which, when first made, or before it becomes acid, is as sweet as honey, were called “saccharon.”

These very important facts are also highlighted in DR. F.R. Lee’s Bible Commentary, which states:
…”saccharine drink”, is related to the word for sugar in all the Indo-Germanic and Semitic languages, and is still applied throughout the East, from India to Abyssinia, to the palm sap, as well as to sugar and to the ferme
nt
ed palm wine. It has by usage grown i
nt
o a generic term for “drinks,” including fresh juices and inebriating liquors
ot
her than those coming from the grape.

He also states:
SHAKAR (sometimes written shechar, shekar) signifies “sweet drink” expressed from fruits
ot
her than the grape, and drunk in an unferme
nt
ed or ferme
nt
ed state.

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I suppose since you believe God was endorsing the drinking of that which has the ability to deceive a man (Pr. 20:1) causes a man to utter perverse things (Proverbs 23::33) cause the man to reel and fall into slumber (Proverbs 23:34).

Wow!

And I suppose you believe He was also telling the Israelites that they could go out and buy harlots with that money?

"...or whatsoever thy soul lusteth after."

Interesting.

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It should be noted that the Hebrew word for "pure" in Deuteronomy 32:14 is the word "chemer" and is only found twice in the Old Testament. The other place is Isaiah 27:2, which reads:

In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine.

A vineyard of wine? Alcoholic wine is not found in a vineyard, it if found in vessels.

The world "chemer" indicates a non fermented wine... the pure blood of the grape.

Thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape... they drank a wine that was non alcoholic in content.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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I have heard the argument from many that the water in Bible times was not good to drink and had to be made drinkable by adding alcoholic wine to it.

That claim is pure speculation at best when one goes to the Word of God.

There are many, ... many, verses in the Word of God that speak of people drinking water. Why, Jesus even made the statement that whoever gave a person a drink of cold water in the name of a disciple, that one will be rewarded. Jesus Himself desired a woman to give Him a drink of water from a well early in His ministry.

It is clear that water in the Bible was indeed drinkable.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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The terms wine and strong drink often mean grape juice, fermented grape juice (alcohol) and have also been used to describe wine that has been boiled down into a syrup that was later mixed with water. I do not think that God was endorsing alcohol in this verse, that would contradict Him and we know that is not the case. It is important to always look at the context of the verse. If we look at that verse in Deut 14 we need to consider the nature of God and use that as a guideline for understanding the meaning the word was used in. God does not endorse sin, so would not condone alcohol in a situation where "thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household," I believe the word means the boiled down syrupy wine that would be made after the harvest as a drink that does not corrupt, much like our fruit juice mixes today.

Another example is the term "wine" used in my previous post in 1 Tim 3 and Tit 1. If we look closely at the context we see that a bishop and deacon are to be moderate in there behavior. It is taught that wine here implies alcohol but I believe that this is not the case. Romans and wealthy citizens of the period (and today) would live lives of largess, excessive binging at feasts and this excess often took the form at feasts of drinking much wine. I believe that the verse teaches that moderation must be taken in all aspects of a leaders life and in the lives of believers as this set them apart from the world where excess is the norm to fill empty lives.

Why do I believe this?

Because the bible is not for confusion and its author - God - is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14: 33). And if we are told that 1 Tim 3:8 that a deacon must not be given to "much" wine and in 1 Tim 3 and Tit 1 that a bishop not be "given" to wine it implies that some is still alright. In none of these verses does it outright forbid it. We know that the bible is clear concerning things we must do and must not do.

Here is an example of what I mean:

1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
Note that this excessive behavior seemed to be the norm amongst gentiles and by their moderation they publicly separated themselves.

I did a word search on the term "strong drink" and there are too many to post yet in most of them where the term implies alcohol the context is of sin or wacky behavior. For example:

Isa 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Isa 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
The context is sin.

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Both mean alcohol

Isa 5:11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
But you will note that in the above verse it is wine that inflames them.


Deu 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
Deu 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.
Here it does not mean alcohol as there were no grapes to tend and harvest during their wanderings. This would have been the normal juice or concentrated juice of the grape.

I hope that in my convoluted manner I have managed to show that both words can mean both alcohol and juice. That it is always important to study the context and ALWAYS hold the NATURE and CHARACTER of God to the verse in question. He is the light brings forth understanding and the "spirit level" that you use to measure what is straight and true if you will.

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I'll agree with Billy Sunday's sermon, Famous Booze Sermon. Whether this sermon is popular, or unpopular among us.

One can look to the many who were born again through his preaching and the evidence of their salvation in how entire towns were transformed as the new Christians stopped drinking, stopped committing sexual sin, and saloons and brothels were closed, and town leaders wrote new laws banning the sale or drinking of booze in their towns. Local churches were filled and holiness was pursued rather than drunkenness and other sins.
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From "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton G. Campbell:




shekar shows up in some 20 verses, every time it's strong drink, every time it's a negative view of strong drink, alcoholic in nature, and never indicated it is grape juice.

It is what it is. commentaries aside, they are not inspired and in this case, i would have to disagree with the findings of your man, the actual 20 verses that use the word shekar do not speak of grape juice, not once.
God bless,
calvary
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I suppose since you believe God was endorsing the drinking of that which has the ability to deceive a man (Pr. 20:1) causes a man to utter perverse things (Proverbs 23::33) cause the man to reel and fall into slumber (Proverbs 23:34).

Wow!

And I suppose you believe He was also telling the Israelites that they could go out and buy harlots with that money?

"...or whatsoever thy soul lusteth after."

Interesting.


who are you talking to?
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If James Strong had any inclination to alcohol in his life whatsoever, it might have swayed his interpretation of "shakar".


why would you seek to discredit Strong with inuendo? is it because Strongs definition goes against your pet scholar? is it because the 20 verses listed that actually use shekar not once, not ever refer to grape juice?
one thing i have seen in your posts, once you dig in your heels, all the world is wrong before your post stands in error. now you even suggest that Strong may be wrong in his defintion of the word shekar since your pet scholar has told you that shekar could be grape juice, in spite of the 20 verses that will not support your commentary's conclusions.

good luck with that

God bless,
calvary
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Deut. 14:22-26, "Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24) And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25) Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"


Okay, so I've never taken a drink in my life and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon. It looks like God told them that if they couldn't make the journey to tithe their increase, to turn it to money and blow it on whatever they want, including grape juice or even fermented wine.

Can someone please explain this passage to me?


Beer and Wine: The Bible’s Counsel

By William H. Shea, Associate Director, Biblical Research Institute
Doesn't the Bible refer in a number of places to wine and strong drink? Don't we quite often find people drinking alcohol in the Bible? Can't we assume, then, that Scripture generally does not condemn drinking alcoholic beverages?
It's true that we often find people drinking alcohol in the Bible and that Scripture speaks of alcoholic beverages, but we need to be careful not to read too much into a superficial look at such texts. When our English Old Testaments refer to alcohol, they generally use the words wine or strong drink. So any examination of the Old Testament's attitude toward alcohol must take into account the different Hebrew words translated into these two English terms.
The term strong drink presents no major translation problems because only one Hebrew word, shekar, lies behind it. But even so, the translation strong drink is more general than it ought to be. Modern readers may well think of strong drink as distilled liquor. But that is not what the Bible means by the term shekar. Since the process of distilling alcohol did not develop until around A.D. 500, the strongest alcoholic beverage people could make in Bible times contained only 14 percent alcohol by volume, approximately the maximum produced by natural fermentation. This fact tells us that the scriptural term strong drink certainly gives us no license to drink what we know today as hard liquor.
If distilled alcohol is not what the Bible means by shekar, what does it mean?
Here is where ancient languages related to Hebrew can be helpful. Documents written in cuneiform script on clay tablets tell us that the Babylonians had an alcoholic beverage they called shikaru. (Notice how similar this Babylonian word is to the Hebrew shekar. It is actually the same word in two related Semitic languages.) Some of these clay tablets tell how shikaru was made so we can easily determine what beverage they are describing. From grain, the Babylonians made a mash which was allowed to ferment. In other words, these tablets that speak about making shikaru are talking about making beer! Since the Bible texts that use the word shekar are referring to the same drink, they are talking about beer as well.
This is something extremely relevant to our modern society. Here are Bible texts talking about beerthe beverage that is so widely advertized on American TV and that is so widely consumed by the American public.
And what view does the Bible take of this beverage? A very dim and negative view indeed. Of 21 Old Testament texts that mention shekar (beer), 19 strongly condemn it. The other two texts present special cases (we'll discuss one of these later). The New Testament mentions this same beverage only once and prohibits its use by John the Baptist as he grew up.
To give something of the picture these 19 Old Testament texts convey, let's look at what some of them say about shekar: Leviticus 10:9 prohibits its use by a priest in ministry; Numbers 6:2, 3 forbids Nazarites from drinking it; in Judges 13:3, 4 an angel warns Samson's mother-to-be not to drink it during her pregnancy; in Deuteronomy 29:5, 6 God tells the Israelites that He did not provide this drink for them in their wilderness wanderings.
There is also the interesting story of Hannah. She went to the tabernacle at Shiloh and prayed so earnestly about the fact that she was childless that the priest accused her of being drunk with shekar. This she denied. See 1 Samuel 1:15.
The prophets of Judah in the eighth century B.C. were especially vigorous in their condemnation of strong drink, or beer. Isaiah mentions it eight times, and each reference is strongly negative. He pronounces a woe upon those who drink it (Isa 5:11) and notes that it would not bring mirth when God cursed the land (Isa 24:9). He points out that beer causes staggering (Isa 29:9) and that false priests and prophets were two groups who especially staggered from its effects (Isa 28:7). The prophet Micah noted that the people wanted precisely this kind of leaderone who would approve of its use (Mic 2:11). Proverbs 20:1 speaks of rage and brawling as two of its side effects.
Thus we see an almost universal condemnation of beer in the Old Testament. But what about Deuteronomy 14:22-28? This text doesn't seem to fit the pattern; it seems to indicate that Israelites could actually pay part of their tithe in beer! Some have seen in this a modern license for beer-drinking.
First, we should carefully note that Deuteronomy 14 is dealing with a special use under special circumstances. The chapter takes up the subject of the tithe in verses 22 and 23. In a later section, it speaks about what might be called "delayed tithe." It is here that beer occurs as part of the "delayed tithe."
What is all this talking about?
Deuteronomy 14 identifies the tithe as certain foods and drinks that the Israelite was to take to the sanctuary located centrally in the nation. When the tithe was paid regularly and on time, the products offered were to include newborn lambs and calves, freshly pressed oil, new unfermented wine or grape juice (tirosh), and grain. All these were fresh products that came from the harvest of the new agricultural year. But what was the Israelite to do if for some reason he couldn't get to the sanctuary with these fresh products? He was to make a substitution, and it is this substitution that verses 24-26 describe.
Verse 24 presents the problem: that of an Israelite who was not able to get to the sanctuary on time. Verse 25 presents the intermediate solution: he was to convert his tithe into silver and retain the money until he was able to go to the sanctuary. Verse 26 gives the final step in presenting the delayed tithe. When he arrived at the sanctuary, the Israelite was to purchase some of the same agricultural products he should have brought earlier and eat the tithe meal before the Lord.
But the products he purchased for the tithe meal must be mature to show symbolically that the tithe presentation was late. Thus he did not present a lamb; he purchased a mature sheep for presentation. He did not present a calf, but a mature ox. Instead of fresh grape juice (tirosh) he presented yayin, wine that had fermented with the passing of time. And he did not present grain; he presented beer that had been made from grain. In each case, the delayed tithe meal consisted of things chosen to correspond to and show the development of the agricultural product which should have been presented originally. Although not readily apparent, this actually involved an interest penalty since the ox would cost more than a calf and the sheep more than a lamb.
Under these special circumstances, the symbolic substitution of beer for the earlier grain when presenting "delayed tithe" can by no means be taken as a license for unrestricted recreational use of beereither then or now. Especially when beer is elsewhere condemned in the OT.

Interesting. 14% would be pretty strong by a tea drinker like me! i've never read about the penalty being the idea behind the delayed tithe.

God bless
calvary
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I am sorry, but one mans opinion is not enough to convince me that "strong drink" means beer. You can not take a Babylonian word and a similar Hebrew word and combine them and make beer out them. If we truly believe that the KJ is the true inspired Word of God then the word beer would have been used. They knew what beer was when they wrote the KJV 1611. I still stand on my previous post that strong drink here meant concentrated grape juice and that it always comes back to context.
Any one that accepts this disregards the character of God.

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I have heard the argument from many that the water in Bible times was not good to drink and had to be made drinkable by adding alcoholic wine to it.

That claim is pure speculation at best when one goes to the Word of God.

There are many, ... many, verses in the Word of God that speak of people drinking water. Why, Jesus even made the statement that whoever gave a person a drink of cold water in the name of a disciple, that one will be rewarded. Jesus Himself desired a woman to give Him a drink of water from a well early in His ministry.

It is clear that water in the Bible was indeed drinkable.



Have you ever lived around a village where several people live & they drink ground or spring water & its polluted with their sewerage? The people in the village comes down with all types of disease including such things as typhoid fever. Study it out, check it out, them you will change your mind, for because of this many villages have been completely wiped out.
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