Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Did God Say to Blow Your Tithe Money on Beer in Deuteronomy?


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Deut. 14:22-26, "Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24) And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25) Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"


Okay, so I've never taken a drink in my life and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon. It looks like God told them that if they couldn't make the journey to tithe their increase, to turn it to money and blow it on whatever they want, including grape juice or even fermented wine.

Can someone please explain this passage to me?

Edited by Rick Schworer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

But that was for the Jews. I thought you dispies insist that the Jews and the Church were always separate?


Here's a heads up. We "dispies" know the difference between doctrine for the Jews and doctrine meant for the church. That means we know what we are TOLD to do and what we can LEARN from - two different playing fields with separate rules. Unless you want us to start circumcising all our boys and turning our churches into slaughter houses. I don't think Rick was throwing out a doctrinal question, more a hypothetical one that we can learn a lesson from. I'm reasonably sure that he already has an answer.

Rick

Here's a question:

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Here we see a bishop must not be fond of wine, or possibly partake of it. Most teach that a bishop must not drink alcohol using these verses. Most also teach that wine was grape juice and the bible differentiates between juice and alcohol by using the term "strong drink" - you also seem to be of that teaching by your statement "including grape juice or even fermented wine". They use this to gainsay anyone speculating or stating that Jesus turned water into wine as in alcohol. So why is the term wine in these two verse used to imply strong drink? Does this not contradict the teaching that wine was fermented grape juice and is a bishop now not to drink grape juice?
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Deut. 14:22-26, "Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24) And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25) Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"


Okay, so I've never taken a drink in my life and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon. It looks like God told them that if they couldn't make the journey to tithe their increase, to turn it to money and blow it on whatever they want, including grape juice or even fermented wine.

Can someone please explain this passage to me?

I think something has been left out earlier in the week. Thanks Rick.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Doesn't that passage refer to the Festival tithe? The Israelites were instructed to lay aside 3 tithes - the first 10% for the Lord, the second to be used to get to & enjoy the festivals God had provided (or to enjoy at home if unable to get to the temple), and the third for the poor. Christians who practice tithing today generally only observe the Lord's tithe - which this passage is not referring to.

My pastor said that this is the only passage in the Bible where strong drink - actual alcohol (although nowhere near the proofs we have available nowadays) - is referred to in a permissive sense. Seeing as elsewhere God is always strongly encouraging us against imbibing strong drink, I don't understand that part of this reference either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

But that was for the Jews. I thought you dispies insist that the Jews and the Church were always separate?


I don't care who it's for, I'm just hoping for an explanation. Proverbs tells us to not even look at it, but here God tells them spend their tithe on it.

Let's not get hung up again on the battle about dispensations again, but to explain my position I'll reiterate something. A hyper-dispensationalist will completely cut out everything but Paul's epistles. Anyone with any common sense can tell that is wrong. The church gets in on the spiritual aspects of the New Covenant, and therefore there is much spiritual application to be found in the Old Testament when God is speaking to the Jews on a moral and spiritual level.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The point is, Rick, how much of the OT law is applicable to us today? The ten commandments? or more.

The sabbath law, for instance, includes not kindling a fire on the sabbath. Do we keep that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Le 10:8 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Le 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Le 10:11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

As for me, a pastor, I know that I'm not to drink, & it does not bother me the least bit, & I do not look through the Bible to try & find loopholes.

Strange thing, my birth father was a drunk, my brother & half brothers were drunks, lived & dies by the bottle. I like the taste of both beer & whiskey, but I cannot stand the effect it has on people.

Its easy to see in the Scriptures what God says that stuff will do to a person, & I have seen it 1st hand, so with knowing what the Scriptures says else where about this, & what it will do to people, & having seen what it does, we are bound to be getting the wrong idea out of this verse, for God does not contradict Himself.

If the Scriptures you have given OK's strong drink, them God has contradicted Himself.

Now, that is good enough for me, but I know well those that are looking for loopholes so that they can freely drink, there is nothing I can say to stop them, & the only thing that can help them understand this is God's Holy Spirit.

I have only told my thoughts on this, I'm not pressing them on no one else, although I hope it does give some food for thought, plus, I will always preach against drinking, for I feel its 100% wrong, & nothing good comes of it.

One more thing, I would never drink, for if I did that may well put a stumbling block in front of a weak brother or sister, of even a lost soul.

Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Deut. 14:22-26, "Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24) And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25) Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"


Okay, so I've never taken a drink in my life and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon. It looks like God told them that if they couldn't make the journey to tithe their increase, to turn it to money and blow it on whatever they want, including grape juice or even fermented wine.

Can someone please explain this passage to me?
shekar (strong drink) was a generic word in the Old Testament, as was yayin (wine) It could mean alcoholic or non alcoholic.

God was not telling them to buy alcohol. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


I don't care who it's for, I'm just hoping for an explanation. Proverbs tells us to not even look at it, but here God tells them spend their tithe on it.


Yes, they were permitted to drink intoxicating beverages if they wished in certain situations. However, then as now it was not a bright idea and when they did so it led to all sorts of problems. For example look at what Eli accused Hannah of in 1st Samuel 1:13. I seriously doubt he would have accused her of that if it wasn't a fairly common problem. If I was to make an educated guess I would say that people getting drunk most likely contributed to what was going on in 1st Samuel 2:22 as well. Then we see the same sort of things happening in the NT church at Corinth. God judged them for that as well. In general, from scripture, we see that there are times where drinking alcohol might have been "permitted" but it is and always has been a foolish thing to do that generally leads to problems for somebody, either directly or indirectly.

I think that is why baptists as a whole tend to be prohibitionists when it comes to Christians drinking alcohol. It isn't so much that a rock solid case can be built for it being a biblical requirement that a believer MUST not ever touch alcohol, but it is easy to see from scripture why a Christian SHOULD never do so. It is just one of those very dumb things that always leads to some sort of problem eventually. Maybe the drinker never gets drunk and shows restraint but maybe his children don't. Maybe it is just a bad testimony to the lost who use the "christian drinker" as an excuse to justify themselves, or maybe it is a stumbling block to brothers in Christ.

Sort of like how some men had two or more wives at the same time in the OT. Was that "allowed"? Yes, sort of, it was not prohibited, but it was also a dumb idea that caused many problems. The legality aspect aside I think most would agree that was/is wrong. Again, not because it can be "proved" to be wrong from scripture but because it can be proved to be an exceedingly dumb idea that does not fit in with Gods original design and leads to all sorts of problems. I would put a believer that chooses to drink in the same category. A foolish individual that is most likely going to create problems for himself or others by his foolishness. Edited by Seth-Doty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

A book I highly recommend is "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton G. Capbell.

On page 92, we read:



The next passage reads:
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
(Deuteronomy 14:26)

Those proponents of moderation with respect to intoxicating beverages might suggest that this text sanctions and encourages the drinking of beer and alcoholic wine. To be fair, it appears to be so, but this is not the case. In examining this passage, we will learn that the book of Deuteronomy furnishes us with a perfect example of the following:
  1. A correct understanding of the generic words which are used for “wine” and “strong drink” respectively.
  2. A proper application of the law of context.
  3. A complete understanding of God’s view on the subject of drinking.

Now in returning to the text, we will see that the Bible itself conclusively refutes any suggestions whatsoever that this text endorses the use of alcoholic drinks.
We have already learned in our studies that the words translated “wine” (yayin) and “strong drink” (shekar) here are generic, and may refer to fresh grape juice and a sweet pleasant drink which was unfermented. What kind of beverage is this verse referring to, since it may be argued that this text can be interpreted according to one’s own particular bias? The answer is very simple. Deuteronomy 29:6 explains:
Ye have n
ot
eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.
(Deuteronomy 29:6)

Here, the passage proves that the “wine” and “strong drink” in Chapter 14:26, cannot be the same as that mentioned here! The inspired text later goes on to explain in no uncertain terms exactly what kind of wine the Jews did drink. It reads:
Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
(Deuteronomy 32:14)



The Israelites drank the pure blood of the grape, they did not drink alcohol as is evident by the above verses.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

A book I highly recommend is "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton G. Capbell.

On page 92, we read:



The Israelites drank the pure blood of the grape, they did not drink alcohol as is evident by the above verses.


I can and do accept that wine in scripture sometimes means strongly alcoholic wine and also sometimes refers to a beverage with low or no alcoholic content. "Strong drink" is self explanatory though. I do not buy that that it is ever used to refer to non-alcoholic beverages in scripture.
. Edited by Seth-Doty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Genesis tells the story of the chief butler's dream in which he was squeezing the grapes into the cup of Pharaoh.

The book of Isaiah reveals that wine is found in the grapes while they are still in the cluster.

Sorry, Seth, but the Word of God does indeed reveal a non alcoholic wine.

Men from the first century A.D. also record in their writings of wines that were made that were not able to intoxicate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...