Members John81 Posted February 26, 2012 Members Share Posted February 26, 2012 I am hoping we can have a discussion of Ezekiel 38 & 39 as to how this relates to us today, in the future and how this should impact our lives (as Christians). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swathdiver Posted February 26, 2012 Members Share Posted February 26, 2012 Not sure how it will impact us John because we'll both be with the Lord in heaven when this happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2012 Not sure how it will impact us John because we'll both be with the Lord in heaven when this happens! I wasn't clear, but I was meaning how this prophecy should effect our lives now, as we live on this earth. Also, if this is a future event then couldn't that mean we will, or at least might, see at least some of the build-up to this? I don't agree with the philosophy because I believe it's unbiblical, but just as an example as to how some Christians look at this, they are of the mind they should support anything that would bring this to pass more quickly. Their belief is, if they can hasten the day this occurs they will in effect be hastening the day Christ returns. (I'm just using this as an example, not really wanting to discuss this theory unless it's actually relevant otherwise) What nations will or may this actually involve and what does that mean to us as we look at world events today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 Another question, is the Gomer referred to Germany, Turkey or another nation? As I was studying this I noticed in the 70s and 80s many were saying Gomer was Germany but today it seems many now say Gomer is Turkey. There is a pretty big difference between the two so it's made me wonder how or why Germany was once thought to be Gomer but now Turkey is...was some new evidence uncovered in this area that I don't know of or something else? The idea of Germany, to me at least, never really fit, but many used to argue this was referring to East Germany (which no longer exists) which they said would naturally unite with Russia (and the whole Soviet Union, which no longer exists), and the other countries mentioned. For whatever reason, it now seems Gomer is mostly believed to be Turkey. If so, it's interesting that Turkey (modern Turkey established by Ataturk as a secular nation friendly to West) has recently left the foundations set by it's modern founder and is not very much Islamic and ever growing in anti-Israel and anti-Western stands. Anyway, just something I was thinking of as I await other contributions to what Ezekiel 38 & 39 means, its fulfillment and relevance to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 2 Peter 3:10–14 KJV 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. Covenanter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 The last chapters of Ezekiel must be some of the most challenging in all prophetic Scripture. They need interpreting, & even I cannot give a literal reading as is straightforward with Daniel 9. Obviously the temple, complete with sacrifices & offerings for sin, cannot be future. That is a blasphemous doctrine against our Lord Jesus Christ & his FINISHED work of redemption. The new covenant temple comprises all believers, & is built with living stones. If the Gog/Magog war is a very graphic prophecy of a literal invasion of the land & people of Israel, then it is probably a parallel prophecy of the wars in Daniel 10-11 that took place between the testaments. It obviously isn't the ad 70 wars. The weapons employed are largely wooden, so it isn't a literal modern war:9And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:10So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD. In the NT (apart from Revelation) war is a spiritual battle - see, e.g. Eph. 6, but this is apparent also as persecution where believers are victims, using the Word & prayer as their weapons, but not fighting with their enemies.My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Only when we come to Revelation do we see real warfare. Like Rick, I consider Revelation to be a series of reiterations, thoughour agreement is far from complete. The question of whether 1-18 is capable of preterist/historical or futurist interpretation we can avoid in this discussion. The end-time battles of Rev. 19 & 20 are the relevant Scriptures. Are these reiteration, or separated by 1,000 years? The end of Rev. 19 reads very like the end of Eze. 39, though the Gog/Magog battle is the conclusion of the millennium warfare in Rev. 20.Eze. 39:4Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.17And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.18Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.19And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.20Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.Rev. 19:17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.Rev. 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Are there any survivors from the Rev. 19 battle to populate the earth & engage in a further Gog/Magog battle? It is obviously the same battle. Note also the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth which sword is his Word - the word of judgment that condemns them to eternal death. There can be no survivors. In the NT, after the end of the 70 weeks in Acts 7, Israel & the church are one people of God in Christ under the new/everlasting covenant in the blood of Christ. The warfare is against believers, & we will overcome.Rev. 7:9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Our responsibility in the troubled times of the present millennium is to be faithful - unto death if need be.Mark 13:31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 God is ganna nuke a bunch of ragheads and Ruskies when they try to take out Israel one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 God is ganna nuke a bunch of ragheads and Ruskies when they try to take out Israel one day. Reasoned response, Rick. Of course the nukes will be made of wood.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Does anyone think what's going on today in Russia, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Lybia, Sudan and such has anything to do with these chapters? I've heard some speculate the war will take place prior a rapture while others speculate it will take place after a rapture. Some are putting a lot of money into trying to find oil in Israel because they believe if a huge oil reserve is discovered in Israel it will be part of the reason Russia and the others to invade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Does anyone think what's going on today in Russia, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Lybia, Sudan and such has anything to do with these chapters? I've heard some speculate the war will take place prior a rapture while others speculate it will take place after a rapture. Some are putting a lot of money into trying to find oil in Israel because they believe if a huge oil reserve is discovered in Israel it will be part of the reason Russia and the others to invade. That is trying to make their interpretation of prophecy come true. However, God has a plan and no man can change that, no way, no how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 That is trying to make their interpretation of prophecy come true. However, God has a plan and no man can change that, no way, no how. Myself, I agree but it seems that while their number still may be rather few in comparison, a yet growing number of Christians are of the belief they can help usher in the end times. For the most part, their plan seems to be to attempt to hasten a major war against Israel. Of course, at the same time there are many on the other end who see it as their job to do all they can to prevent a war from coming to Israel. This also leads to my question as to how we are to view these prophecies and what impact should they have upon how we live our lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Does anyone think what's going on today in Russia, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Lybia, Sudan and such has anything to do with these chapters? I've heard some speculate the war will take place prior a rapture while others speculate it will take place after a rapture. Some are putting a lot of money into trying to find oil in Israel because they believe if a huge oil reserve is discovered in Israel it will be part of the reason Russia and the others to invade. Joel 2:30–32 KJV 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. Ezekiel 39:6-8 the fire falls before the great tribulation in the 6th seal when the sun is turned into darkness and the moon into blood also see Revelation 6:12-17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Joel 2:30–32 KJV 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. Ezekiel 39:6-8 the fire falls before the great tribulation in the 6th seal when the sun is turned into darkness and the moon into blood also see Revelation 6:12-17 The Joel is, of course, fulfilled at Pentecost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 The Joel is, of course, fulfilled at Pentecost. Joel 2:28-29 has happened at Pentecost and will happen again to the 144,000 at the time the fire falls. If you read the rest of Joel it is obvious that God has not called all nations against Israel yet. The sun and moon have not gone permanently dark over Israel, as they will in the Kingdom of Jesus. See the following: Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV 18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. 19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. 21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. 22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time. 204 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING The solar eclipse will continue through the kingdom age and the people of Israel will live in peace under the light of Jesus who is in the New Jerusalem. The people’s children will multiply so much that one person will have a thousand offspring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Does anyone think what's going on today in Russia, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Lybia, Sudan and such has anything to do with these chapters?Specifically no but - Yes - & everywhere on earth where there is persecution against the people of God. I do not consider proximity to Israel to be significant - Israel as a nation does not comprise the people of God & has no prophetic significance. Only believers, of all ethnicities, comprise the true Israel - the believing people of God. I've heard some speculate the war will take place prior a rapture while others speculate it will take place after a rapture.Speculation, but those chapters do indicate that the persecution war against the people of God will increase before Jesus returns - not a geographical war, but a spiritual war, wherever believers are found. Some are putting a lot of money into trying to find oil in Israel because they believe if a huge oil reserve is discovered in Israel it will be part of the reason Russia and the others to invade.Not relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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