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Eric Stahl

The Mid Point of the Tribulation Period

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2 resurrection, but resurrection of life has more than 1 phase, & the resurrection of damnation has only one phase.

The different phases of the resurrection of life is a puzzle to many.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

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Just how many raptures/resurrections will there be?


I don't agree with the previous post.

As far as I see it the church will be raptured before the seven year tribulation and then the two witnesses along with the 144,000 midway. This would be the "man child" that is caught up in Rev. 12:5 before the woman (Israel) flees into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. The rest of those on earth have to endure until the end (i.e. the Second Coming of Christ) and avoid taking the mark. Edited by Wilchbla

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I don't agree with the previous post.

As far as I see it the church will be raptured before the seven year tribulation and then the two witnesses along with the 144,000 midway. This would be the "man child" that is caught up in Rev. 12:5 before the woman (Israel) flees into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. The rest of those on earth have to endure until the end (i.e. the Second Coming of Christ) and avoid taking the mark.


Revelation 15:1-3
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

The people that had victory over the beast and his image came from the earth after the antichrist came . Therefore they where redeemed saints from the first half of the tribulation because the 7 last plagues had not been poured out yet.

The woman from Revelation chapter 12 is Israel and the man child is Jesus who died and rose again and went back to heaven.

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So is there several raptures then? Do some believe there will be a pre-trib, mid-trib AND post-trib raptures?

Eric, why do you say there will be five phases? Why are these phases and not simply separate events?

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Rick this explains what will happen at the 7th trumpet.

Did you notice that the third woe corresponds to the seventh trumpet judgment?
Verse twelve indicates that the Devil is the third woe! Then the passage goes on to say that the people of Israel are carried away on the wings of what will most likely be the American eagle, to the uttermost part of the earth to the isles in the sea (Isaiah 5:24–30). It will be for three-and-a-half times, or three-and-a-half years. The sixth trumpet judg- ment was finished one hour after the two witnesses completed their 1260 day ministry and completed the first half of the seven-year tribulation. The seventh trumpet judgment and third woe will last through the last three-and-a-half years of the tribulation and will complete the seven-year tribulation period. Therefore, the seventh trumpet judgment lasts for the whole time of the great tribulation.
If you were taught that Revelation 11:15 refers to the end of the tribulation, I hope you now understand that the seventh trumpet judgment occurs in the middle of it. Yes, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and His Son Jesus Christ in the middle of the tribulation by heavenly warfare.



Just because everyone says something to the effect of, "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, for Satan is cast down to you," doesn't prove that the third woe and the Seventh Trumpet happen in the middle of the Tribulation, brother.

Sorry, not trying to be rude, but that's pretty weak.

I've said it once I'll say it again, all events surrounding the Seventh Trumpet are indicators of the end of the Tribulation, not the middle. Read Revelation 11, 14, 19, Matthew 24, Joel 2, Zech 14, the sixth seal in Rev. 6, and you'll find you're reading the same events over and over again. Edited by Rick Schworer

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Why? Everything describing the 7th Trumpet identifies it with the end of the Tribulation, not the middle.


Isaiah 24:21–23 KJV
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

In verse 21 the host of the high ones is Satan and his rebellious angels. They will be gathered to the earth together with the kings of the earth by God, and the rebellious angels will be imprisoned with the rebellious men on the earth and be shut up for many days. It will be for three-and-a-half years, as we saw in Revelation 12:14. God will conquer the Devil and cast him to the earth for judgment. The Lord and His Christ will not occupy the earth during the three-and-a-half years of the great tribulation, but they will own the earth and will use it as a prison.

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So is there several raptures then? Do some believe there will be a pre-trib, mid-trib AND post-trib raptures?

Eric, why do you say there will be five phases? Why are these phases and not simply separate events?


There were several harvests in the OT. Firstfruits, the main harvest, gleanings. This would probably be a picture of these events.

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I haven't contributed to this thread so far but perhaps it's time now.

As the tribulation finished immediately before the destruction in AD 70, we are looking at the events 3 1/2 years before - the Jerusalem Christians saw the warning signs & fled the city.

15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee i
nt
o the mou
nt
ains:

......

20
But pray ye that your flight be n
ot
in the wi
nt
er, neither on the sabbath day:

21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was n
ot
since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Luke 21:
20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mou
nt
ains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let n
ot
them that are in the cou
nt
ries e
nt
er therei
nt
o.

22
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

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So is there several raptures then? Do some believe there will be a pre-trib, mid-trib AND post-trib raptures?

Eric, why do you say there will be five phases? Why are these phases and not simply separate events?


I assume you have read my post about the 5 phases of the first resurrection. The Bible describes saints going to heaven at different times. Notice in Revelation 20:4-6 that the saints that had their heads cut off during the last half of the tribulation and where in heaven, had part of the first resurrection. This is the 4th time saints were redeemed from the earth but they are said to be in the first resurrection too. There are two resurrections, one to life and one to damnation. All that have part in the resurrection to life are said to have part in the first resurrection no matter when they are redeemed.

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I assume you have read my post about the 5 phases of the first resurrection. The Bible describes saints going to heaven at different times. Notice in Revelation 20:4-6 that the saints that had their heads cut off during the last half of the tribulation and where in heaven, had part of the first resurrection. This is the 4th time saints were redeemed from the earth but they are said to be in the first resurrection too. There are two resurrections, one to life and one to damnation. All that have part in the resurrection to life are said to have part in the first resurrection no matter when they are redeemed.

Please note:
4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgme
nt
was given u
nt
o them: and
I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had n
ot
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Souls - the first resurrection is spiritual - Jesus equates it with conversion, & distinguishes it from the bodily resurrection:
John 5:
24
Verily, verily, I say u
nt
o you,
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that se
nt
me, hath everlasting life, and shall n
ot
come i
nt
o condemnation; but is passed from death u
nt
o life.

25
Verily, verily, I say u
nt
o you,
The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27
And hath given him authority to execute judgme
nt
also, because he is the Son of man.

28
Marvel n
ot
at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, u
nt
o the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, u
nt
o the resurrection of damnation.


The resurrection of life & the resurrection of damnation take place in the same hour.

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The first resurrection is spiritual? As in when a person trusts Christ? Then why the mention of people not worshipping the beast or his image, not taking the mark in their foreheads or hands....

What does all that have to do with trusting Christ?

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Please note:
4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgme
nt
was given u
nt
o them: and
I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had n
ot
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Souls - the first resurrection is spiritual - Jesus equates it with conversion, & distinguishes it from the bodily resurrection:
John 5:
24
Verily, verily, I say u
nt
o you,
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that se
nt
me, hath everlasting life, and shall n
ot
come i
nt
o condemnation; but is passed from death u
nt
o life.

25
Verily, verily, I say u
nt
o you,
The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27
And hath given him authority to execute judgme
nt
also, because he is the Son of man.

28
Marvel n
ot
at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, u
nt
o the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, u
nt
o the resurrection of damnation.


The resurrection of life & the resurrection of damnation take place in the same hour.


The only resurrection of the dammed takes place at the time of the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15.

There are five time that saints are redeemed from the earth.

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The only resurrection of the dammed takes place at the time of the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15.

There are five time that saints are redeemed from the earth.


There is one time when the saints are raised, and that is after the falling away and the revelation of the man of sin.

2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1 Thess. 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Edited by Invicta

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There is one time when the saints are raised, and that is after the falling away and the revelation of the man of sin.

2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1 Thess. 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


That is the only time that the church age saints are raised and it is the second phase of the first resurrection.

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My goodness, anytime we try to have a conversation amongst people that actually take Revelation to mean what it says ones of these guys has to jump in and mess things up with the same old tired and failed arguments.

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My goodness, anytime we try to have a conversation amongst people that actually take Revelation to mean what it says ones of these guys has to jump in and mess things up with the same old tired and failed arguments.

Why not take the 70 weeks for what it says too...70 weeks, not 69 weeks plus untold weeks not to be counted, followed by a week that will then be called the 70th week? (not meaning to change the topic of this thread)

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My goodness, anytime we try to have a conversation amongst people that actually take Revelation to mean what it says ones of these guys has to jump in and mess things up with the same old tired and failed arguments.


But you don't take it to mean what it says. What verse one says is that it is "signified", that means shown by signs. Today we would say symbolised, it means the same. The signs are either exolained in the book, or elsewhere in the scriptures.

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I don't agree with the previous post.

As far as I see it the church will be raptured before the seven year tribulation and then the two witnesses along with the 144,000 midway. This would be the "man child" that is caught up in Rev. 12:5 before the woman (Israel) flees into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. The rest of those on earth have to endure until the end (i.e. the Second Coming of Christ) and avoid taking the mark.


In chapter fifteen, we see a large group of people in heaven who will have chosen to accept the gospel of Christ even though it will cost them their lives. They praise God while He sends seven angels out of the temple with the last seven plagues for the earth.

Revelation 15:1–3 KJV
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


Please consider these verses and tell me who you think they are?

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In chapter fifteen, we see a large group of people in heaven who will have chosen to accept the gospel of Christ even though it will cost them their lives. They praise God while He sends seven angels out of the temple with the last seven plagues for the earth.

Revelation 15:1–3 KJV
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


Please consider these verses and tell me who you think they are?


This is the saved Jewish remnant as well as the Gentiles that endured unto the end. Chapters 14-16 are the antitype of God's deliverence of the children of Israel from Egypt under Moses' leading. Notice they are singing the song of Moses. The tribulation saints will be taken out just before God drops the hammer on this world in the form of the vial judgements. This all takes place in the final days of the great tribulation. This has nothing to do with any Christians in the church age alive or dead. Edited by Wilchbla

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This is the saved Jewish remnant as well as the Gentiles that endured unto the end. Chapters 14-16 are the antitype of God's deliverence of the children of Israel from Egypt under Moses' leading. Notice they are singing the song of Moses. The tribulation saints will be taken out just before God drops the hammer on this world in the form of the vial judgements. This all takes place in the final days of the great tribulation. This has nothing to do with any Christians in the church age alive or dead.


Notice that they came out of the tribulation because they had victory over the beast and his Image. I believe this includes the resurrected Gentiles from the first half of the tribulations and the 144000, and the two witnesses or prophets. All of them were resurrected at the middle of the tribulation before the last 7 judgments.

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