Members Brother Rick Posted March 5, 2012 Members Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Rick this explains what will happen at the 7th trumpet. Did you notice that the third woe corresponds to the seventh trumpet judgment? Verse twelve indicates that the Devil is the third woe! Then the passage goes on to say that the people of Israel are carried away on the wings of what will most likely be the American eagle, to the uttermost part of the earth to the isles in the sea (Isaiah 5:24–30). It will be for three-and-a-half times, or three-and-a-half years. The sixth trumpet judg- ment was finished one hour after the two witnesses completed their 1260 day ministry and completed the first half of the seven-year tribulation. The seventh trumpet judgment and third woe will last through the last three-and-a-half years of the tribulation and will complete the seven-year tribulation period. Therefore, the seventh trumpet judgment lasts for the whole time of the great tribulation. If you were taught that Revelation 11:15 refers to the end of the tribulation, I hope you now understand that the seventh trumpet judgment occurs in the middle of it. Yes, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and His Son Jesus Christ in the middle of the tribulation by heavenly warfare. Just because everyone says something to the effect of, "Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, for Satan is cast down to you," doesn't prove that the third woe and the Seventh Trumpet happen in the middle of the Tribulation, brother. Sorry, not trying to be rude, but that's pretty weak. I've said it once I'll say it again, all events surrounding the Seventh Trumpet are indicators of the end of the Tribulation, not the middle. Read Revelation 11, 14, 19, Matthew 24, Joel 2, Zech 14, the sixth seal in Rev. 6, and you'll find you're reading the same events over and over again. Edited March 5, 2012 by Rick Schworer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted March 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Why? Everything describing the 7th Trumpet identifies it with the end of the Tribulation, not the middle. Isaiah 24:21–23 KJV 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. 23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. In verse 21 the host of the high ones is Satan and his rebellious angels. They will be gathered to the earth together with the kings of the earth by God, and the rebellious angels will be imprisoned with the rebellious men on the earth and be shut up for many days. It will be for three-and-a-half years, as we saw in Revelation 12:14. God will conquer the Devil and cast him to the earth for judgment. The Lord and His Christ will not occupy the earth during the three-and-a-half years of the great tribulation, but they will own the earth and will use it as a prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted March 6, 2012 Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nonsense is incapable of refutation, -- Martin Luther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted March 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Nonsense is incapable of refutation, -- Martin Luther So is truth! -- Eric E Stahl Edited March 6, 2012 by Eric Stahl Brother Rick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wilchbla Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 So is there several raptures then? Do some believe there will be a pre-trib, mid-trib AND post-trib raptures? Eric, why do you say there will be five phases? Why are these phases and not simply separate events? There were several harvests in the OT. Firstfruits, the main harvest, gleanings. This would probably be a picture of these events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I haven't contributed to this thread so far but perhaps it's time now. As the tribulation finished immediately before the destruction in AD 70, we are looking at the events 3 1/2 years before - the Jerusalem Christians saw the warning signs & fled the city.15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:......20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.Luke 21:20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted March 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 So is there several raptures then? Do some believe there will be a pre-trib, mid-trib AND post-trib raptures? Eric, why do you say there will be five phases? Why are these phases and not simply separate events? I assume you have read my post about the 5 phases of the first resurrection. The Bible describes saints going to heaven at different times. Notice in Revelation 20:4-6 that the saints that had their heads cut off during the last half of the tribulation and where in heaven, had part of the first resurrection. This is the 4th time saints were redeemed from the earth but they are said to be in the first resurrection too. There are two resurrections, one to life and one to damnation. All that have part in the resurrection to life are said to have part in the first resurrection no matter when they are redeemed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I assume you have read my post about the 5 phases of the first resurrection. The Bible describes saints going to heaven at different times. Notice in Revelation 20:4-6 that the saints that had their heads cut off during the last half of the tribulation and where in heaven, had part of the first resurrection. This is the 4th time saints were redeemed from the earth but they are said to be in the first resurrection too. There are two resurrections, one to life and one to damnation. All that have part in the resurrection to life are said to have part in the first resurrection no matter when they are redeemed. Please note:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Souls - the first resurrection is spiritual - Jesus equates it with conversion, & distinguishes it from the bodily resurrection:John 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. The resurrection of life & the resurrection of damnation take place in the same hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 The first resurrection is spiritual? As in when a person trusts Christ? Then why the mention of people not worshipping the beast or his image, not taking the mark in their foreheads or hands.... What does all that have to do with trusting Christ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted March 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 Please note:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Souls - the first resurrection is spiritual - Jesus equates it with conversion, & distinguishes it from the bodily resurrection:John 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. The resurrection of life & the resurrection of damnation take place in the same hour. The only resurrection of the dammed takes place at the time of the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15. There are five time that saints are redeemed from the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) The only resurrection of the dammed takes place at the time of the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15. There are five time that saints are redeemed from the earth. There is one time when the saints are raised, and that is after the falling away and the revelation of the man of sin.2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.1 Thess. 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Edited March 8, 2012 by Invicta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted March 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2012 There is one time when the saints are raised, and that is after the falling away and the revelation of the man of sin.2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.1 Thess. 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. That is the only time that the church age saints are raised and it is the second phase of the first resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Rick Posted March 9, 2012 Members Share Posted March 9, 2012 My goodness, anytime we try to have a conversation amongst people that actually take Revelation to mean what it says ones of these guys has to jump in and mess things up with the same old tired and failed arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted March 9, 2012 Members Share Posted March 9, 2012 My goodness, anytime we try to have a conversation amongst people that actually take Revelation to mean what it says ones of these guys has to jump in and mess things up with the same old tired and failed arguments. Why not take the 70 weeks for what it says too...70 weeks, not 69 weeks plus untold weeks not to be counted, followed by a week that will then be called the 70th week? (not meaning to change the topic of this thread) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted March 9, 2012 Members Share Posted March 9, 2012 My goodness, anytime we try to have a conversation amongst people that actually take Revelation to mean what it says ones of these guys has to jump in and mess things up with the same old tired and failed arguments. But you don't take it to mean what it says. What verse one says is that it is "signified", that means shown by signs. Today we would say symbolised, it means the same. The signs are either exolained in the book, or elsewhere in the scriptures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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