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The Gap (Daniel 11:33-35)


LindaR

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There is a big difference between USING a KJV, and actually believing that every word in the KJV is actually God's words perfectly inspired and preserved for us today.


Growing up multilingual and reading the Bible in several languages fluently and in several others not fluently just doesn't let me believe there is one perfect version. Because every version I read had some parts closer to the manuscripts they were translated from (the first Bibles I ever read were all TR based) and made more sense than the others. I wonder if I chose to grow up in a Slavic family in America by my own free will. It kind of ruined it for me on the KJVO issue. I'm still KJVP though. So far nobody has explained to me why the KJV is superior to other TR-based translations in other languages even in the verses that make more sense in those translations than the KJV. I'd be happy to hear why.



You can say that with a straight face???? "hidden meaning of his words???"
Ian has pronounced that the "eagle" in Matthew 24 is a reference to Rome, but has yet to give us one Scripture to prove it!!! He has done the same thing on several different topics on these threads, yet somehow you point the finger at US????
Please!


I don't know everything about eschatology, so I don't have much of an opinion on the eagles at this point. I am something of a partial-preterist/historicist blend, but I don't know what my label is supposed to be exactly. I don't really care for labels. I want to know what the Bible teaches and I don't care what others call it. Ian believes the eagles are Romans. I don't know. All I know is that I don't see any gaps in God's word. I study what is written in the Bible, not what is in between punctuation marks. Dispensationalism is all about reading between the lines. I'm talking in general; you are accusing me of specific things which I don't even know about yet.
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I believe the 70th week is very literal. John81 don't you believe in a literal 70 week?

If the 70the week were taken literally then it would follow immediately after the 69th week just like each week previously followed immediately after the other. To say there is a "gap" between the 69th and 70th weeks means in effect there are many other "week" between the 69th and 70th that are not counted. That's not a literal view.
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There is a big difference between USING a KJV, and actually believing that every word in the KJV is actually God's words perfectly inspired and preserved for us today.



You can say that with a straight face???? "hidden meaning of his words???"
Ian has pronounced that the "eagle" in Matthew 24 is a reference to Rome, but has yet to give us one Scripture to prove it!!! He has done the same thing on several different topics on these threads, yet somehow you point the finger at US????
Please!

I have started an "eagle" thread to avoid you making ad homine arguments regardless of what I write.

Perhaps you missed my 2 posts on page 2, or perhaps you use my Roman eagles as a reason to disregard all my posts, which always highlight Scripture.
Be careful, or you might drive John into the preterist camp :coffee:
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Daniel's 70 weeks all come down to Israel.

Who is Israel in the passage? Is it the Israel of the Old Testament, the Israel that rejected Christ? Or is some other kind of Israel? Is it what we all agree to be the church?

The reason why I ask these things is because they tie in directly to what is supposed to happen once the 70 weeks are complete:

Daniel 9:24, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

So the critical question is, have these things happened yet? If Israel is the church, then you can make the case that they have. See the part about "seal up the vision and prophecy"? That would indicate Revelation. If Revelation has been fulfilled, then so too has Daniel 9:24 and all seventy of the weeks. Has everlasting righteousness come to the people of God? Well, if we're talking about the church, then yes, that everlasting righteousness has come and it is found in Jesus Christ.

Now if Israel in the passage is an ethnic and national people, then this has not been fulfilled. The holy city is Jerusalem, and it doesn't even belong to the Jews right now (at least not completely), and God certainly doesn't view Jerusalem as a holy city as He has in the past. End of sins for the Jews? Hardly fulfilled. Everlasting righteousness? Only for the ones that have accepted Jesus Christ, but certainly not for the whole nation, which is what this would have to apply to if it's talking about national Israel. Seal up the vision and prophecy? Only if God was done with the Jews nationally in 70 A.D.

The way to tell if the seventy weeks have been fulfilled is to determine if what was supposed to follows the seventy weeks have happened yet.

So in the end, it always comes back to an old man in the desert looking up at the night stars and what God promised him.

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Daniel's 70 weeks all come down to Israel.

Who is Israel in the passage? Is it the Israel of the Old Testament, the Israel that rejected Christ? Or is some other kind of Israel? Is it what we all agree to be the church?

The reason why I ask these things is because they tie in directly to what is supposed to happen once the 70 weeks are complete:

Daniel 9:24, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

So the critical question is, have these things happened yet? If Israel is the church, then you can make the case that they have. See the part about "seal up the vision and prophecy"? That would indicate Revelation. If Revelation has been fulfilled, then so too has Daniel 9:24 and all seventy of the weeks. Has everlasting righteousness come to the people of God? Well, if we're talking about the church, then yes, that everlasting righteousness has come and it is found in Jesus Christ.

Now if Israel in the passage is an ethnic and national people, then this has not been fulfilled. The holy city is Jerusalem, and it doesn't even belong to the Jews right now (at least not completely), and God certainly doesn't view Jerusalem as a holy city as He has in the past. End of sins for the Jews? Hardly fulfilled. Everlasting righteousness? Only for the ones that have accepted Jesus Christ, but certainly not for the whole nation, which is what this would have to apply to if it's talking about national Israel. Seal up the vision and prophecy? Only if God was done with the Jews nationally in 70 A.D.

The way to tell if the seventy weeks have been fulfilled is to determine if what was supposed to follows the seventy weeks have happened yet.

So in the end, it always comes back to an old man in the desert looking up at the night stars and what God promised him.

Huh? You lost me...
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To determine if there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week we need to answer one question:

Have the events that were promised to happen after the 70 weeks occurred or not?

That is the premise of post #49. If Israel is the church, then yes the 70 weeks have been fulfilled because you can apply the promise to the church, spiritually. If the promise is to national Israel, then the weeks have not been fulfilled and there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week.

Thus the promises given to Israel are at the heart of this discussion, as is also debate over man's free will ( plan A or B ).

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To determine if there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week we need to answer one question:

Have the events that were promised to happen after the 70 weeks occurred or not?

That is the premise of post #49. If Israel is the church, then yes the 70 weeks have been fulfilled because you can apply the promise to the church, spiritually. If the promise is to national Israel, then the weeks have not been fulfilled and there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week.

Thus the promises given to Israel are at the heart of this discussion, as is also debate over man's free will ( plan A or B ).

Where does Scripture say there will be 69 regular weeks, then a gap of many more weeks that won't be counted, and after that we will count the 70th week?
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I have started an "eagle" thread to avoid you making ad homine arguments regardless of what I write.

Perhaps you missed my 2 posts on page 2, or perhaps you use my Roman eagles as a reason to disregard all my posts, which always highlight Scripture.
Be careful, or you might drive John into the preterist camp :coffee:

I keep bringing it up because you continue to fail to provide Scripture to support your argument....I keep waiting for a Scriptural response, and never get one.
I responded to your Eagle thread.
But this is typical of the preterist approach to Scripture - throw some wild interpretation out, and expect everyone to accept it, even though you don't have any Scriptural support for it.
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If the 70the week were taken literally then it would follow immediately after the 69th week just like each week previously followed immediately after the other. To say there is a "gap" between the 69th and 70th weeks means in effect there are many other "week" between the 69th and 70th that are not counted. That's not a literal view.


John81 do you believe we are in the kingdom age, since you seem to believe the 70th week is past?
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John81 do you believe we are in the kingdom age, since you seem to believe the 70th week is past?

I never said the 70th week is past. I'm trying to understand how some of the views regarding this align with Scripture.

I'm not sure what you mean by "kingdom age".
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Where does Scripture say there will be 69 regular weeks, then a gap of many more weeks that won't be counted, and after that we will count the 70th week?


It doesn't.

I do know that the things that were supposed to happen to Israel after the 70 weeks have not happened yet which is why I believe it is yet future.
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It doesn't.

I do know that the things that were supposed to happen to Israel after the 70 weeks have not happened yet which is why I believe it is yet future.

Are you sure of the timing of the beginning of the 70 weeks? Would it make sense for God to say there would be 70 weeks coming when there would actually be many more than 70 weeks coming and only after those unspoken of weeks would a week finally be declared to be the long lost 70th week?
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All I know is what was supposed to happen in the 70th week, and what was supposed to happen after the 70 weeks have not happened yet.

If the 70 weeks have been fufilled, then the church replaces Israel and the book of Revelation is in the past (See post #49).

This is how we all get to where we are.

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All I know is what was supposed to happen in the 70th week, and what was supposed to happen after the 70 weeks have not happened yet.

If the 70 weeks have been fufilled, then the church replaces Israel and the book of Revelation is in the past (See post #49).

This is how we all get to where we are.

I'm not sure it has to be as you put forth here. I'll have to look more into this. Thank you for your input!
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All I know is what was supposed to happen in the 70th week, and what was supposed to happen after the 70 weeks have not happened yet.

If the 70 weeks have been fufilled, then the church replaces Israel and the book of Revelation is in the past (See post #49).

This is how we all get to where we are.

Because covenant/preterist theology makes no distinctions between the church and Israel and since this covenant/preterist theology interprets Scripture allegorically and not literally, all prophecies concerning Israel are blurred. These folks will never see a "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel because they aren't even looking for it.

Israel is not the church, the 70th week of Daniel and the book of Revelation is still future. The church was a mystery in the OT. The church age is "parenthetical"....that "parenthesis" is the "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.
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