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Kitagrl

Forcing boy to get chemo

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Forcing care or treatment on anyone is a terrible thing. One of our very fundamental rights is to make our own healthcare choices.

I had a case where DHS tried to force a guy to go into the nursing home. Unfortunately, I lost because they said that he "Didn't understand the consequences of is health care decisions." He had a large bed sore, and that made the case pretty bad, but he was very clear he did not want to go into a nursing home, but to sit at home and die. That is his right.

This kind of thing makes me angry.

Do we agree on this!?!? :eek

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Well' date=' of course...dontcha know we dumb Americans just don't know what's good for us! Gotta have somebody force it on us. :loco[/quote']

The parents are forcing their beliefs on the child in the face of evidence that their beliefs are not in the best interest of the child. The problem with this situation is that you cannot physically see cancer. If the child's arm was broken and bone was protruding out of the skin, people would be up in arms about the parents' refusal to take him to the hospital to have the bone set. In some cases, people don't know whats good for them, let alone their children.

Would you also say that a person has the right to kill themselves?

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A person who kills himself cannot be prosecuted - but whoever helps him can. No, I don't say that someone has the right to kill himself. But that isn't what the parents nor the boy are doing. They have opted for natural treatment - something that has been proven to work on people.

See, you and I don't have the right to say natural processes aren't good for the boy - and he is 13...so he's old enough to say that he doesn't agree with his parents about the process - especially now that it's in court now. So the parents aren't forcing anything on him. And who's to say that it isn't in his best interest? You? Me? No.

Something you may not realize is that there are alternatives to chemo that work! I know people who have opted for natural alternatives and have seen the cancer eradicated. I know people who have used chemo who have seen the cancer eradicated. And I know people who have used natural and others who used chemo and have died. So who's to say what is best? The government? Yeah, they do such a great job on everything else, let's let 'em decide how to run our families now.

Sorry, but that boy and his parents have the right to make their own decisions - the government should stay out of it.

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Forcing care or treatment on anyone is a terrible thing. One of our very fundamental rights is to make our own healthcare choices.

I had a case where DHS tried to force a guy to go into the nursing home. Unfortunately, I lost because they said that he "Didn't understand the consequences of is health care decisions." He had a large bed sore, and that made the case pretty bad, but he was very clear he did not want to go into a nursing home, but to sit at home and die. That is his right.

This kind of thing makes me angry.

Do we agree on this!?!? :eek


Yes!

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Forcing care or treatment on anyone is a terrible thing. One of our very fundamental rights is to make our own healthcare choices.

I had a case where DHS tried to force a guy to go into the nursing home. Unfortunately, I lost because they said that he "Didn't understand the consequences of is health care decisions." He had a large bed sore, and that made the case pretty bad, but he was very clear he did not want to go into a nursing home, but to sit at home and die. That is his right.

This kind of thing makes me angry.

Do we agree on this!?!? :eek

Yes! :Green

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So what I don't get is that a teenager is "wise" enough to choose an abortion outside of parental consent but NOT "wise" enough to choose cancer treatments!

The boy has already been through one round of chemo. Don't they think he knows if he wants to do it again? He is old enough to realize he may die. He is old enough to make that decision.

100 years ago people died anyway, with cancer. Its not a crime to choose to die naturally. Obviously I think a good parent will seek treatment for their child and I do not agree with the decision being made here. However I have to agree that people have the freedom to choose whichever treatment they prefer.

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The child is the responsibility of the parents, not the government. We already know what the government thinks of children, it's okay to murder them if you call it abortion, and it's okay for the government to force their will upon them if they so desire.

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Obviously I think a good parent will seek treatment for their child and I do not agree with the decision being made here. However I have to agree that people have the freedom to choose whichever treatment they prefer.


I agree with you here. And I would add the caveat that most people will study this kind of thing out - it's not likely that these parents just said one day, "We aren't going to use chemo anymore because we don't like it. Let's see if we can just beat it naturally. Let's try Vitamin C." I've known a number of people whose children had terminal problems...and they did a lot of research. A good friend of mine has a son with an inoperable brain tumore. He's had it for 12 years. And she knows as much or more about this particular tumor than doctors do - because she made it her business to do know all about it - and all treatments available, including a non-chemo treatment that has actually dissolved these kinds of tumors.

Alternatives can work, and it's up to each individual family to make that decision - not the government.

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I know a guy who alternative methods hastened his cancer death...on the other hand, I know a lady who is in our church who alternative methods/diet healed her cancer.

Nobody knows, even the drs, and especially not the government....

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I don't believe there is any evidence that "natural medicine" has ever rid someone of cancer. I believe that there are some unexplainable instances in which people who receive no treatment at all/natural medicine have been rid of cancer, but that is not something you take chances on. A thirteen year old is not even entrusted with the ability to drive and we shouldn't trust him with something like this. When I was thirteen, the school master had to make sure I brushed my teeth every night because at the time I didn't appreciate the consequences of not brushing. Same case here. The boy has been raised to believe that chemo will not help him, so his judgment is already skewed.

Happy, i believe that the majority of people in our society are uneducated catastrophes waiting to happen. If the state didn't tell you (not you specifically, but society in general) what was good for you, there would be no laws against drunk driving, or speed limits, or conservatorships . . . God has chosen few amongst us to bless with the gift of leadership and knowledge and we should trust these people to make the decisions which most of us are mentally unable to make. If the parents want to practice this type of medicine, so be it, but when the life of an uninformed indoctrinated child is at issue, I don't see how the state can just sit by and watch this happen.

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Chemo is like mouse-hunting with an elephant gun. The parents should make an informed decision with the desires of their child in mind. This story brings up an interesting debate though. Are parents always to have the last word or not? (I believe they should--unless they are unfit) Here the parents are refusing treatment and the child agrees. What about if the child wanted treatment and the parents did not? What about if the parents wanted treatment and the child REFUSED and said he's kick and scream etc? Should the law allow the child be forced to receive treatment because of the parents wishes?

It is strange, because if this medical proceedure was instead about a teenage girl and whether or not she should get an abortion, the debate would really get hot fast. It is an important consideration, though, because the standard they apply in the OP situation could be applied to other medical practices.....including abortion.

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You are right, it gets complicated fast.

Which is why the state has more important things to do than govern individual family decisions.

BTW things like driving and stuff like that are decisions that harm OTHERS in PUBLIC. Individual medical decisions concern no one but the family.

Yes I know that sometimes parents make really bad decisions and the kids suffer. But in general I believe a society would be better off having a few of these unfortunately slip through the cracks than to have every family subject to governmental approval so far as to whether its allowable to blow one's nose.

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pt - I think there are a lot of uninformed people in this world - but not as many as the government does (and being uninformed about an issue doesn't give the government the right to take control). And I have to tell you, your lack of belief in successful alternative treatment does show that you are uninformed on the issue - please note, I am not calling you stupid by any stretch! I believe you are a very intelligent person. But there are alternative treatments for many, many things and people can research them to find out if they want to use them or not. And these treatments do work. As I said, I know people who have used them successfully. And the friend who I mentioned? It's not chemo that has helped shrink that tumor! It's still there, so it hasn't worked on him as it has others - but that's something that is in God's hands.

God knew what He was doing when He designed certain things in nature to take care of diseases and ill health. I'm not saying that doctors are verboten - we use them, just as most people do.

And as kita pointed out - 13 is considered old enough to decide, without parental knowledge, to have an abortion...because it's her body. So why can't a 13 year old boy decide he doesn't want chemo?

There are laws that need to be enforced, for the good of society. Drunken driving laws and the like fall under that. Civil government is supposed to do that. BUT! Civil government doesn't have the right, either under God or under our constitution, to step into a family situation and take over. It just doesn't.

And really, we don't know that he was raised to think chemo wouldn't help him! He underwent it already. So he had undergone something that most of us here have not...I'm sure he knows if he wants to do it again. I remember when I was 13, and I wouldn't have wanted to undergo chemo!

I know a guy who alternative methods hastened his cancer death...on the other hand, I know a lady who is in our church who alternative methods/diet healed her cancer.

Nobody knows, even the drs, and especially not the government....
Same here and yep!

bz - personally, I think if the parents wanted the child to have chemo, he should (and the government would back that up...). If they want him to go natural, and he is fine with it (we are not talking a 5 year old...13 year olds aren't stupid!), especially with all the noise being created from it, then that is their decision.

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What concerns me the most here is that the government is forcing treatment on someone who does not want it. This is taking away a basic, fundamental right.

It would be different if the boy were sick, wanted treatment, and the parents neglected him and refused to take him to the hospital just because they do not care.

But just because someone wans to pursue alternative treatment or object ot treatment on religious grounds does not give anyone the right to force medical care on someone. This is absurd, and dangerous.

And yes, if it is legal in this country that a teenager can choose to abort a pregnancy (something I am staunchly opposed to, despite my otherwise liberal leaning!), then why can't a teenager refuse medical treatment?

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What concerns me the most here is that the government is forcing treatment on someone who does not want it. This is taking away a basic, fundamental right.

It would be different if the boy were sick, wanted treatment, and the parents neglected him and refused to take him to the hospital just because they do not care.

But just because someone wans to pursue alternative treatment or object ot treatment on religious grounds does not give anyone the right to force medical care on someone. This is absurd, and dangerous.

And yes, if it is legal in this country that a teenager can choose to abort a pregnancy (something I am staunchly opposed to, despite my otherwise liberal leaning!), then why can't a teenager refuse medical treatment?

:goodpost:

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pt - I think there are a lot of uninformed people in this world - but not as many as the government does (and being uninformed about an issue doesn't give the government the right to take control). And I have to tell you, your lack of belief in successful alternative treatment does show that you are uninformed on the issue - please note, I am not calling you stupid by any stretch! I believe you are a very intelligent person. But there are alternative treatments for many, many things and people can research them to find out if they want to use them or not. And these treatments do work. As I said, I know people who have used them successfully. And the friend who I mentioned? It's not chemo that has helped shrink that tumor! It's still there, so it hasn't worked on him as it has others - but that's something that is in God's hands.

God knew what He was doing when He designed certain things in nature to take care of diseases and ill health. I'm not saying that doctors are verboten - we use them, just as most people do.

And as kita pointed out - 13 is considered old enough to decide, without parental knowledge, to have an abortion...because it's her body. So why can't a 13 year old boy decide he doesn't want chemo?

There are laws that need to be enforced, for the good of society. Drunken driving laws and the like fall under that. Civil government is supposed to do that. BUT! Civil government doesn't have the right, either under God or under our constitution, to step into a family situation and take over. It just doesn't.

And really, we don't know that he was raised to think chemo wouldn't help him! He underwent it already. So he had undergone something that most of us here have not...I'm sure he knows if he wants to do it again. I remember when I was 13, and I wouldn't have wanted to undergo chemo!

Same here and yep!

bz - personally, I think if the parents wanted the child to have chemo, he should (and the government would back that up...). If they want him to go natural, and he is fine with it (we are not talking a 5 year old...13 year olds aren't stupid!), especially with all the noise being created from it, then that is their decision.


I don't believe this is a "family situation." The boy has a terminal disease and the parents are forcing their beliefs regarding the treatment of that disease on the child. Natural medicines may work, but without some solid credible evidence, there is absolutely no basis for stating that they are a valid alternative for chemo. And a 13 year old girl having an abortion is a completely different issue. Such a girl is not making a decsision which is likely to costs her her life (maybe her soul, but that is definitely not the government's concern). This pretty much equates to neglect and child abuse. Again, I'd ask for someone to show me how this is different from a child having a broken bone and, rather than taking the kid to the hospital, the parents want to treat it with some spiced tea and mint leaves.

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pt - alternative cancer treatments are not spiced tea and mint leaves! Do some research before you throw out the idea that it can work. Again, it doesn't always, but it does work. Neither does chemo always work, but it does work.

Neglect? They DID chemo and it DIDN'T work. They have chosen to do something different, something they are hoping will work.

What is chemo? Literally burning...and destroying cells and the immune system. Mayhap the alternative treatment isn't what is wrong! Perhaps they wanted to stop destroying cells in their son's body and immune system.

And, yes, a 13 year old getting an abortion is very appropo: it is a medical procedure and it can kill her. And it does traumatize many of those who get them. The government has mandated that a 13 year old girl can have her baby ripped out of her body because (in BO's words) they "made a mistake." So, let's allow them to compound that mistake without parental involvement and let them murder their babies. BUT ~~ a 13 year old boy who's already undergone one round of chemo isn't able to decide that he doesn't want to do it again because his parents have "indoctrinated" him. If it weren't so sad and ironic, it would be funny.

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I don't believe this is a "family situation." The boy has a terminal disease and the parents are forcing their beliefs regarding the treatment of that disease on the child. Natural medicines may work, but without some solid credible evidence, there is absolutely no basis for stating that they are a valid alternative for chemo. And a 13 year old girl having an abortion is a completely different issue. Such a girl is not making a decsision which is likely to costs her her life (maybe her soul, but that is definitely not the government's concern). This pretty much equates to neglect and child abuse. Again, I'd ask for someone to show me how this is different from a child having a broken bone and, rather than taking the kid to the hospital, the parents want to treat it with some spiced tea and mint leaves.


I think the difference is: 1. the child already has been treated with chemo once--it wasn't as if he'd had NO treatment whatsoever, 2. the child says not only he doesn't want treatment, but that he will kick and fight them all if they try to hold him down and give it to him--doesn't sound to me like a kid who secretly wants the treatment! and 3. UNLIKE a broken bone, there is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that he will ever recover at all. Broken bones heal.........cancer is not a broken bone. Could the kid have been brainwashed through years of upbringing that natural remedies were the only way to go? Possibly, but not likely, since he did, in fact, already receive chemotherapy once. Just think, if the gov't gets their way and they remove the child from the home to force treatment upon him, he will likely lose his will to live because they will remove him from those he loves the most. How stupid is that?

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The boy isn't being "Forced" by his parents...he sounds like he's doing this out of his own will.

And yes it would be very sad to watch him die under the care of some kind of institution.

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Ah, the special people who are gifted with knowledge and leadership are going to force those who are less learned and like little lambs to receive treatment against their will! Brilliant!

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Ah' date=' the special people who are gifted with knowledge and leadership are going to force those who are less learned and like little lambs to receive treatment against their will! Brilliant![/quote']

They've already done stuff like take good pediatric meds off the market and etc...because we are all so stupid...

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The boy isn't being "Forced" by his parents...he sounds like he's doing this out of his own will.

And yes it would be very sad to watch him die under the care of some kind of institution.


I don't believe that a 13 year old is able to discern what his "own free will" is. The reason we don't let people under the age of 18 vote is because they are too suscceptible to doing what their parents tell them, rather than voting in their own best interest. A 13 year old that has lived at home his entire life, all the while being indoctrinated by his parents, is not going to make a decision independent of his past. He has probably never even been allowed to question his parents on this, and therefore has had no access to the information needed to make a rational decision on his own.

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