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Is It Wrong to Vote for the Lesser of Two Evils?


Brother Rick

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Swathdiver, I'm no expert on politics. My opinions are worth just what you're paying for them (as I've said before in this thread). That said, I'd answer your question like this. Rick Santorum has no glaring "personal" or character faults. His faults (as far as I can tell) seem to be that he would not be an effective leader because he lacks experience... Again, I could be wrong.


Santorum is an experienced politician and has worked in private industry before. He's arguably more conservative then either Gingrich or Romney both politically and in his private life. He's a man of morality, character and honor and is not afraid to tackle unpopular subjects which is why he probably lost re-election. I believe he would govern to the left of Reagan and to the right of George W. Bush. My major beef is the same as the Lord's, he's not Christian but Catholic and therefore very likely unsaved though he professes belief in God and the Savior.

A Christian man in fellowship with God does not have to be an "experienced politician". Surrounding themselves with Godly people and in constant prayer, one will lead and govern a nation just fine.


Ohh, forgot to add that Santorum picked up 3 states tonight in the primaries.
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Santorum is another big government neo-con, not an actual conservative.

Amazing that in 1960 Christians were rightly warning of the dangers of voting for a Catholic yet here we are five decades later and most Christians are flocking to a Catholic (either Gingrich or Santorum) while all but a few of the rest rally to a Mormon. All the while, Christians failed to give their support to one of the Christian candidates. That's very telling about the state of Christianity in America today.

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Ohh, forgot to add that Santorum picked up 3 states tonight in the primaries.

Yeah, I saw that! That's great for him. I tell you what...I'd sure vote for him over Romney and Paul. I've been skeptical of his electability, but I'm open to being convinced. His religion doesn't bother me at all (as far as politics goes). I like his ideas on policy.
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Swath, just so you know, RSantorum is not all that conservative. He backed Arlen Specter against Pat Toomey...and Specter was PA's Ted Kennedy (politically, not morally) . And he does not have a very good record on gun rights. And, if you are true to things you've said before, his Catholicism is more than a beef to you, it's a deal-breaker...(I do think he would govern to the right of Dubya, but I don't know that he'd be left of RR.)

If Santorum wins the nomination, we will vote for him. I'm glad that he swept things yesterday - I think it put a dent into Romney's "inevitability." But something else I can't shake from my mind: I feel like the America people are being toyed with. I do think things are going on behind the scenes that are controlling a lot of what we "see" in the primaries. One person jumps up, another dives, and then it turns around...I just have the feeling that the "powers that be" are trying to weary us to the point where we will accept Mitt just to get things to stop...and by accepting Mitt, we cede the 2012 election to BO (even George Soros has said that Romney and BO are the same...)

Jerry, if America were a theocracy, your accusations that we wouldn't support Moses might be valid - even though that is a broadbrush that just isn't true. It may be of some people, but it definitely is not of all people. But America is not a theocracy, and people have the right to choose the reasons they vote or don't vote for someone. Lack of experience is a credible reason, and as Dave pointed out, we got BO in 2008, who decidedly lacked experience in anything by rabble-rousing - er, excuse me - community organizing. And not voting at all isn't in the least bit laudatory for a person who strongly proclaims the ills of government...

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Swath, just so you know, RSantorum is not all that conservative. He backed Arlen Specter against Pat Toomey...and Specter was PA's Ted Kennedy (politically, not morally) . And he does not have a very good record on gun rights. And, if you are true to things you've said before, his Catholicism is more than a beef to you, it's a deal-breaker...(I do think he would govern to the right of Dubya, but I don't know that he'd be left of RR.)

If Santorum wins the nomination, we will vote for him. I'm glad that he swept things yesterday - I think it put a dent into Romney's "inevitability." But something else I can't shake from my mind: I feel like the America people are being toyed with. I do think things are going on behind the scenes that are controlling a lot of what we "see" in the primaries. One person jumps up, another dives, and then it turns around...I just have the feeling that the "powers that be" are trying to weary us to the point where we will accept Mitt just to get things to stop...and by accepting Mitt, we cede the 2012 election to BO (even George Soros has said that Romney and BO are the same...)

Jerry, if America were a theocracy, your accusations that we wouldn't support Moses might be valid - even though that is a broadbrush that just isn't true. It may be of some people, but it definitely is not of all people. But America is not a theocracy, and people have the right to choose the reasons they vote or don't vote for someone. Lack of experience is a credible reason, and as Dave pointed out, we got BO in 2008, who decidedly lacked experience in anything by rabble-rousing - er, excuse me - community organizing. And not voting at all isn't in the least bit laudatory for a person who strongly proclaims the ills of government...


Wasn't Specter a defector (Specter the Defector) after the Repubs voted him in he turned Demo-liberal?
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Wasn't Specter a defector (Specter the Defector) after the Repubs voted him in he turned Demo-liberal?

When Specter's liberalism finally became too much even for those who had voted him into office for years, he switched from Repub to Dem as his only hope of staying in congress. Thankfully, it didn't work, but also thankfully, we have the records of those supposed conservatives who supported the liberal Specter all those years showing their real loyalty to the Repub Party and not to conservatism or any so-called values.
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I think the reason the polls and primaries are jumping around like ping-pong balls is because the base can't decide if they want to vote on principle or temporary perceived electability.

Those voters who claim to be Christian, conservative or "values voters", were unwilling to look at the 9 or so Repubs who were originally in the race and get solidly behind one of them. Now they are left with "choices" they don't like, not to mention weak choices, and it's greatly their own fault.

Had these core Republicans got behind one candidate early on, whether Bachmann, Paul, Perry or another, and gave them full support from beginning to end, then one of them would likely either be the nominee by now or well on their way to being the nominee.

As it is, once again they squandered their chance to do this. By withholding their support they allowed others to fund the wimpier candidates while allowing the others to go unfunded and unable to compete.

Now the core Republicans are faced with a proven failure most in his own Party don't even care for, a flip-flopper who will say whatever he thinks necessary to get elected, another big government politicians, and one who is too much like the Founders to suit their modern, enlightened tastes.

So, most will rule Ron Paul out without any signficant consideration or thought, which leaves them stuck between two Catholics and a Mormon, all three of which are big government and globalization supporters with no real love of the Constitution and no intention of keeping any oath they may take to the same.

Is it any wonder voters in the different States are not united?
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Too much like the founders? I don't think so... :frog:

Mainly in that he believes the Constitution should be followed as given.

I apologize for not clarifying that, I in no way meant that in every view he holds he's like the Founders.
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When Specter's liberalism finally became too much even for those who had voted him into office for years, he switched from Repub to Dem as his only hope of staying in congress. Thankfully, it didn't work, but also thankfully, we have the records of those supposed conservatives who supported the liberal Specter all those years showing their real loyalty to the Repub Party and not to conservatism or any so-called values.


We should have run up the red flag then. Republicans and Democrats (Democrublicans) are as interchangeable as light bulbs but, they're not quite so bright.
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Those voters who claim to be Christian, conservative or "values voters", were unwilling to look at the 9 or so Repubs who were originally in the race and get solidly behind one of them. Now they are left with "choices" they don't like, not to mention weak choices, and it's greatly their own fault.

Had these core Republicans got behind one candidate early on, whether Bachmann, Paul, Perry or another, and gave them full support from beginning to end, then one of them would likely either be the nominee by now or well on their way to being the nominee.

As it is, once again they squandered their chance to do this. By withholding their support they allowed others to fund the wimpier candidates while allowing the others to go unfunded and unable to compete.

Now the core Republicans are faced with a proven failure most in his own Party don't even care for, a flip-flopper who will say whatever he thinks necessary to get elected, another big government politicians, and one who is too much like the Founders to suit their modern, enlightened tastes.

So, most will rule Ron Paul out without any signficant consideration or thought, which leaves them stuck between two Catholics and a Mormon, all three of which are big government and globalization supporters with no real love of the Constitution and no intention of keeping any oath they may take to the same.

Is it any wonder voters in the different States are not united?


Around theses parts the SBC churches calls members of the RCC brothers & sister in Christ. If a preacher or pastor stood in front of them behind their pulpit & said anything less, he would be run out of the church & called a heretic.

So I feel that across this nation there's many members of the SBC Churches holds to the same belief, & thus if they're supporting a member of the RCC for president, they feel they're supporting one that Jesus would support. And I feel sure the Methodist & many of the others feels the same way.
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I knew what you meant, John...I just had to yank your chain. :icon_smile:

Santorum took the wind out of Romney's sails yesterday, eh? :boxing:

It's good to have my chain yanked, it keeps me clicking along!

What a funny political process where votes cast, many non-binding, can actually change the momentum of a campaign. No doubt Romney has to be doing some reevaluating, and one would think Gingrich would be as well.
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Well, there are still about 900 delegates up for grabs, so it's anyone's game at this point.

That's one of the things that's so annoying about this process. The media, and many others, want to declare this thing over when less than a handful of States have voted and only a tiny amount of delegates have even been awarded. They have been trying to do this since even before the primary season began!
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There are some pundits now who are saying that they think it just may be a 3-way tie by the time things get to Tampa...and that a "dark horse" could appear. Two names I heard floated today were Chris Christie (I don't know if he'd jump in...I'm thinking he wants to be Romney's VEEP) and Mitch Daniels. Neither of whom I'd particularly care to have run.

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Unless some "dark horse" decides to try and fight it out at the convention because none of the candidates have a lock on the nomination, it's too late for anyone else to enter.

The media, and the Dems, would love to see the Repubs drag this out as long as possible and as messy as possible and with as little enthusiasm as possible because that would make it just that much easier for Obama to win reelection.

By all appearances so far, there is no mass support for any of the four GOP candidates and outside of Ron Paul, none of the candidates have an enthusiastic base. Voter turnout has been lower than expected so far. None of this bodes well for the GOP.

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Unless some "dark horse" decides to try and fight it out at the convention because none of the candidates have a lock on the nomination, it's too late for anyone else to enter.

The media, and the Dems, would love to see the Repubs drag this out as long as possible and as messy as possible and with as little enthusiasm as possible because that would make it just that much easier for Obama to win reelection.

By all appearances so far, there is no mass support for any of the four GOP candidates and outside of Ron Paul, none of the candidates have an enthusiastic base. Voter turnout has been lower than expected so far. None of this bodes well for the GOP.


Yes...not well at all.
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Santorum is another big government neo-con, not an actual conservative.

Amazing that in 1960 Christians were rightly warning of the dangers of voting for a Catholic yet here we are five decades later and most Christians are flocking to a Catholic (either Gingrich or Santorum) while all but a few of the rest rally to a Mormon. All the while, Christians failed to give their support to one of the Christian candidates. That's very telling about the state of Christianity in America today.


Most churches in America today are dead in faith. This is the Laodicean church age, they are neither hot or cold for the Lord, just lukewarm and in need of nothing because of their riches. Thank the Lord that many of us here do not belong to such local churches!


Swath, just so you know, RSantorum is not all that conservative. He backed Arlen Specter against Pat Toomey...



I was trying to compare Santorum's conservatism to Romney and Gingrich. He's probably very much like Hannity and has taken some pretty unconstitutional positions in some of the early debates that I happened to watch. Lacking the power of the Holy Ghost no infidel is likely to govern in a way that is pleasing to God these days.
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It is not Obama that scares me but the idiots who vote for him.


If Gingrich gets the nomination, I'm definitely voting for Obama. Obama has much more character, whereas Gingrich seems to me to be morally bankrupt.

If Romney gets the nomination, I am up in the air on who to vote for.

I like Obama's tax policy, health care policy, and international policy, but I dislike his policy on most social issues.
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Wow. What a constructive, substantive, well thought out statement. I wish all political discussion were of such high caliber.

Actually, it's a very substantive statement. Obama is clearly on record as a liberal socialist with anti-Christian and anti-American views. Those who vote for him must either be in agreement with such or so easily deluded they should be worried about.
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I have read that some pundits thinks that if Mr Obama gets a 2nd term, that all restraints will be removed, & the real Mr. Obama will show himself, and he & his administration will not be a friend to Israel.

Yet still there's lots of Christians that say they will support.

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Why didn't I think of this before :th_wellduh:

Is It Evil to Vote for the Lessor of Two Wrongs?


What about this thought?

Is it right to do wrong hoping it will make for a better outcome?

As for me I have always held to its wrong to do wrong hoping it will make thing right & or better.

And I hold to the thought it never wrong to do right.
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I was watching a debate the other day and it made me sick how Romney and Santorum were going back and forth talking about what bailouts were good and what bailouts were bad, right after Santorum just got done explaining why he voted for something but now was running against what he voted for in the past.

What a breath of fresh air when Ron Paul said something like, "Bailouts are never good, that's like saying if a man goes into a bank and robs it and gets away with it, it was good, but if he gets caught then it's not good."

The people who work in Washington are so blind to the fact that they have no right to do what they've been doing for years and years. I'm amazed we still have a Constitution.

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I was watching a debate the other day and it made me sick how Romney and Santorum were going back and forth talking about what bailouts were good and what bailouts were bad, right after Santorum just got done explaining why he voted for something but now was running against what he voted for in the past.

What a breath of fresh air when Ron Paul said something like, "Bailouts are never good, that's like saying if a man goes into a bank and robs it and gets away with it, it was good, but if he gets caught then it's not good."

The people who work in Washington are so blind to the fact that they have no right to do what they've been doing for years and years. I'm amazed we still have a Constitution.


My constitution is still intact.
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I'm thankful for that but sure wish our countries was too!


God's grace to the U.S., his hand of providence, is no longer with the U.S. The nation's loins have dropped around the ankles, the chest and feet are bare, the shield is broken, the helmet dingy, the sword dull, prayer is forgotten, and mouths are silent.

"... Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"
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Wow. What a constructive, substantive, well thought out statement. I wish all political discussion were of such high caliber.


It seems to me that you're a supporter of President Obama. Care to explain why and the biblical basis for such support?
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It seems to me that you're a supporter of President Obama. Care to explain why and the biblical basis for such support?


To be honest, I have grown to be rather apolitical. I think Democrats and Republicans both have values in line, and out of line with the Christian faith. I have come to believe that we are to pray for our political leaders, and to "render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" *a-hem* pay taxes....yes, taxes are biblical.

Can you say one party has it all figured out or that one party is in line with the Bible? We do not live, and have never lived in a Theocracy. We live in a democratic republic...not a democracy as many would have us believe. I do believe our political system, while not perfect, is outstanding.

However, I cannot say one party has it all figured out and one party is right and one is wrong. I believe taxes are necessary and ordained by God. Government is ordained by God. It is run by people, so it will never be perfect, but it is undoubtedly ordained by God. God told Joseph to enact a tax on Egypt and store up grain. In years of famine, Egypt the distributed the grain. Socialism ordained by God. lol. I'm not saying we should be socialist, but there are certain things that government should be socialist about (ex/ roads, military, infrastructure, putlic utilities, education, etc.).

Jesus told us to render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's. We are to pay taxes and not gripe and grumble about it. In our current situation, higher taxes, less spending, and a growing economy is necessary to get us out of debt and deficit spending. It will take all three. The question then becomes how to allocate the higher tax burden. Is it right to demand more of those who make the least in our society, who spend all they have on basic needs and have no discretinary spending? Or should we demand more of those who have more? That is a biblical principal...of those who are given much, much is required. I believe that to pay for the services that are demanded of our government, the wealthy should pay a higher amount. That will not hinder the economy.....if they pay money to create jobs, that is written off and reduces their taxalbe income. That is recognizing the situation for what it is. We have an unsustainable deficit, and higher taxes combined with lower spending is necessary.

I think Republicans do some things right in talk. I like that they want to spend less. I dislike taht they want to lower taxes when our deficit is out of control. If I were to have a large credit card debt, I would work more, generate more income, reduce spending, and put my additional income towards paying it off. The government needs to do the same...increase revenue by raising taxes, reduce spending, spend increased revenue by paying down debt.

I believe that in faling to raise taxes i a time of war, as has been the policy over the past decade, is immoral. We are engaging in a war that iis important to us, but effectively raising taxes on our children to pay for it. In WWII, the highest income tax bracket was raised to 70% in order to pay for the war. Everyone pitched in and paid for their very important conflict, even up to 70% o their income. If we believe a war is important enough to engage in, we should raise taxes to pay for it. This is where the Republicans have it wrong. Heck, the Democrats have not done anything about that either, and I wish they would.

Do I believe things will drastically change depending who is elected as President? No, not really. Things will go on. The world will continue to turn. My life will not be drastically impacted one way or the other. So I do not have strong feelings either way. Whoever is elected will face the same problems....an out of control deficit, a sluggish economy, a Congress who is difficult to deal with, a war on terror, I believe either candidate will work hard to solve the problems. Not much will chage because politics is about compromise. Everyone must give and take a little, so solutions will surface to problems and each party will get a little bit about what they want.

I may not even vote this go around, but if I do, I am leaning towards Obama right now. Why? "Where there is no vision, the people will perish." Obama has a much clearer vision for our nation. The Republicans seem to be united on bashing President Obama, but do not have any clear vision or leadership of their own right now. If they were smart, they would have followed Boehner when he was negotiating with Obama last summer and followed his leadership, setting him up to run for President in 2016. That is someone I could get behind and vote for. However, they did not follow his leadership, and all of this petty fighting turns me off.

Not a clear answer, I know, but it is hard to talk well of Republican candidates when they offer no great vision, and when I like some of the things that Obama has done such as health care reform (yes, I believe health care is a social issue with social answers), and withdrawing troops from Iraq. We have gotten no surprises with Obama....he has done basically what he campaigned on.
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To be honest, I have grown to be rather apolitical. I think Democrats and Republicans both have values in line, and out of line with the Christian faith. I have come to believe that we are to pray for our political leaders, and to "render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" *a-hem* pay taxes....yes, taxes are biblical.

Can you say one party has it all figured out or that one party is in line with the Bible? We do not live, and have never lived in a Theocracy. We live in a democratic republic...not a democracy as many would have us believe. I do believe our political system, while not perfect, is outstanding.

However, I cannot say one party has it all figured out and one party is right and one is wrong. I believe taxes are necessary and ordained by God. Government is ordained by God. It is run by people, so it will never be perfect, but it is undoubtedly ordained by God. God told Joseph to enact a tax on Egypt and store up grain. In years of famine, Egypt the distributed the grain. Socialism ordained by God. lol. I'm not saying we should be socialist, but there are certain things that government should be socialist about (ex/ roads, military, infrastructure, putlic utilities, education, etc.).

Jesus told us to render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's. We are to pay taxes and not gripe and grumble about it. In our current situation, higher taxes, less spending, and a growing economy is necessary to get us out of debt and deficit spending. It will take all three. The question then becomes how to allocate the higher tax burden. Is it right to demand more of those who make the least in our society, who spend all they have on basic needs and have no discretinary spending? Or should we demand more of those who have more? That is a biblical principal...of those who are given much, much is required. I believe that to pay for the services that are demanded of our government, the wealthy should pay a higher amount. That will not hinder the economy.....if they pay money to create jobs, that is written off and reduces their taxalbe income. That is recognizing the situation for what it is. We have an unsustainable deficit, and higher taxes combined with lower spending is necessary.

I think Republicans do some things right in talk. I like that they want to spend less. I dislike taht they want to lower taxes when our deficit is out of control. If I were to have a large credit card debt, I would work more, generate more income, reduce spending, and put my additional income towards paying it off. The government needs to do the same...increase revenue by raising taxes, reduce spending, spend increased revenue by paying down debt.

I believe that in faling to raise taxes i a time of war, as has been the policy over the past decade, is immoral. We are engaging in a war that iis important to us, but effectively raising taxes on our children to pay for it. In WWII, the highest income tax bracket was raised to 70% in order to pay for the war. Everyone pitched in and paid for their very important conflict, even up to 70% o their income. If we believe a war is important enough to engage in, we should raise taxes to pay for it. This is where the Republicans have it wrong. Heck, the Democrats have not done anything about that either, and I wish they would.

Do I believe things will drastically change depending who is elected as President? No, not really. Things will go on. The world will continue to turn. My life will not be drastically impacted one way or the other. So I do not have strong feelings either way. Whoever is elected will face the same problems....an out of control deficit, a sluggish economy, a Congress who is difficult to deal with, a war on terror, I believe either candidate will work hard to solve the problems. Not much will chage because politics is about compromise. Everyone must give and take a little, so solutions will surface to problems and each party will get a little bit about what they want.

I may not even vote this go around, but if I do, I am leaning towards Obama right now. Why? "Where there is no vision, the people will perish." Obama has a much clearer vision for our nation. The Republicans seem to be united on bashing President Obama, but do not have any clear vision or leadership of their own right now. If they were smart, they would have followed Boehner when he was negotiating with Obama last summer and followed his leadership, setting him up to run for President in 2016. That is someone I could get behind and vote for. However, they did not follow his leadership, and all of this petty fighting turns me off.

Not a clear answer, I know, but it is hard to talk well of Republican candidates when they offer no great vision, and when I like some of the things that Obama has done such as health care reform (yes, I believe health care is a social issue with social answers), and withdrawing troops from Iraq. We have gotten no surprises with Obama....he has done basically what he campaigned on.

We already know you always take the liberal socialist positions and support the Godless, those who don't care for obeying the Constitution, and care nothing for actually believing and obeying the whole Word of God.

Time and again you have told us of the liberal socialist politicians you support, the unconstitutional things you love, about the unbiblical church you belong to, your close associations with those who choose to live in wickedness, etc.

The sure sign of being born again in Christ, and therfore biblically saved, is that one is a new creature, old worldly ways get put aside, one reads, studies, believes and obeys the Word of God. Those whose lives don't show this clear sign are warned in Scripture to examine their faith, to make their calling and election sure.
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