Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Suicide and salvation?

Rate this topic


2Tim215
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Suicide is the ultimate act of rebellion against God. The child of God will not commit suicide. The Holy Spirit will console the child of God in times of distress. He will guide the Child of God into truth.

Paul said, "We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body."

Why could Paul say this? Because he had the Comforter with him, speaking to him in those times when he was troubled, perplexed, persecuted, and cast down. The Spirit strengthens the child of God, He does not allow the child of God come to the place where that child sees no hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Lady Administrators

The child him/her self can come to that point. God allows us to wander if we choose to. You are making emphatic statements (using Paul's description of himself as a hard and fast statement that will always apply to every single Christian - if they are truly saved) that do not include the fact that Christians can take their eyes off the Lord. And it can result in suicide, just as it did with the young lady I referenced earlier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I’m not going to try & talk you out of what you believe about this matter. With my questions now I understand your thought on the matter of suicide.

Yet I would like to give you something to think about.

I’ve known a few people that has committed suicide, the latest being an elderly member of our churches daughters husband. He was a Vietnam War Veteran, & it seemed to cause him quite a bit of troubles thou the years.

Supposedly he made a profession of faith back in the early 80’s, & actually the only one that knows if his profession was empty words is our Savior who shall judge the secrets of all men. As for me God called me to preach the Gospel, not to judge if someone is saved or not saved. Oh, yes I can tell man by their fruit, but I cannot read that heart. And I surely can’t tell if this husband who killed himself, hurting his wife, children, grandchildren, & friends beyond my comprehension.

You know, all of us are saved by grace, & without that grace no man could have the hope of heaven. It seems you try to take that grace out of the formula for those who commit suicide. If grace is taken away for one sin, them it has to be taken away for all sins. And you know well, even you & I have avoided those tribulations you speak of many times throughout our lives choosing not to go thru them if we could find a way around them.

I might add one more thing, many think suicide is unforgiveable because ones its done that person cannot confess that sin. That is not true for the saved person, the saved person, at the moment they accept Jesus as savior they have the promise of heaven.

And on judgment day the only judging they will receive is for rewards. Some will receive rewards, sadly, others will lose all rewards. And that is the only judgment the saved will go thru, for at death they have the promised of eternal life.

Not true of the lost, they will be judge by their works, & will be punished according to the deeds they have done, them it’s the second death, life in the lake of fire forever.

PS. I might add, you put forth a long article entitled, Four Reasons Suicide Is Wrong, I don't think there is a person her that would say that suicide is right, but would agree that its a sin. I could write an article 100,000 pages long describing why ever sin is wrong, both for the saved. But lets not ever take grace out, & the fact, the person that has been truly saved cannot do one thing to lose their salvation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The child him/her self can come to that point. God allows us to wander if we choose to. You are making emphatic statements (using Paul's description of himself as a hard and fast statement that will always apply to every single Christian - if they are truly saved) that do not include the fact that Christians can take their eyes off the Lord. And it can result in suicide, just as it did with the young lady I referenced earlier.
Paul was not speaking of himself only. He used the word "we", not "I".
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I knew a girl years ago who committed suicide. She was saved - no matter what you are trying to make scripture say, standing. This girl was saved. Why did she commit suicide? Because her father told her she could not do what she believed God was calling her to do. This was a young girl (about 19). There were other things that happened and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe she should have gloried in her tribulation, but to take that verse and claim that anyone who commits suicide can't be saved because they aren't glorying in their tribulation is really stretching it. Big time. I know this for sure: I will see this young lady again in eternity. Salvation is eternal. And Christians who take their eyes off the Lord, who do not submit to his loving leadership, are as capable as any - because we are still in the flesh - of sin. Even the sin of suicide.
I disagree. If God is calling someone to do a work for Him, He is going to provide a way for that person to do that work. Where God guides... God provides. The girl committed suicide out of an act of rebellion... both toward her father, and also toward God... if indeed God had called her to do a work.

The girl did not have the Comforter guiding her into all truth, bringing her mind to rest in times of hardship... that is obvious.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


PS. I might add, you put forth a long article entitled, Four Reasons Suicide Is Wrong, I don't think there is a person her that would say that suicide is right, but would agree that its a sin. I could write an article 100,000 pages long describing why ever sin is wrong, both for the saved. But lets not ever take grace out, & the fact, the person that has been truly saved cannot do one thing to lose their salvation.
Let's not forget that the Comforter consoles those in distress. He guides them into all truth and points them to Christ.

The Holy Spirit will not allow the saved to commit suicide. If He did, He would be remiss in His mission for the saved.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Let's not forget that the Comforter consoles those in distress. He guides them into all truth and points them to Christ.

The Holy Spirit will not allow the saved to commit suicide. If He did, He would be remiss in His mission for the saved.


SAMSON pushed those pillars and it was SAMSON who committed the SUICIDE....But it was GOD who provided the POWER to push the pillars. Do you get that? Do you understand? Then God goes and puts Samson's name in Hebrews 11? Hmmm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I am going to address the points in your 17th Chapter. I tried to address them all at once, but for some reason it keeps saying the number of opening quotes does not match the number of closing quotes.... even though in Word it shows 13 of each.

So I will try to address a couple at a time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I’m not going to try & talk you out of what you believe about this matter. With my questions now I understand your thought on the matter of suicide.

Yet I would like to give you something to think about...



Thanks Jerry for your down-to-earth post. I believe your most valuable asset when it comes to this forum is your experience and wisdom when it comes to these things on a pratical matter. Many times we (or at least I do) get caught up in all the doctrinal minutia and arguments and sometimes lose sight of the pratical side of things.


SFIC,

You keep dodging things. Anyone can take a dogmatic stand on something, but when people challenge you on that stand and you just ignore the difficult questions no one respects that stand. In post #114 I pointed out three major problems with your stand but you completly ignored two of them and only half-heartedly addressed one. You also completly ignored the following statement (this will be the third time I've posted it for you):


"Even if they were lost, the young man delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh was not. He had sex with his father's wife and was saved! Paul's solution was to deliver the young man unto Satan - not to go to Hell but to die. God would have killed him if he had not repented, and before you tell me that the man was guaranteed to repent because 'the sheep always follow the Shepherd in the end,' go back and read this passage under point six:

I Cor. 11:29-30, “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. Edited by Rick Schworer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members



SAMSON pushed those pillars and it was SAMSON who committed the SUICIDE....But it was GOD who provided the POWER to push the pillars. Do you get that? Do you understand? Then God goes and puts Samson's name in Hebrews 11? Hmmm
What happened to Samson was "muwth", not "ratsach" There is a difference. God does not want man committing suicide. Samson's death was not suicide.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

This is what a rebellious child of God stands to lose:

1. Joy.

Rev. 2:4, “Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.”

Living a life focused on self won’t make a lost man happy in the long run, and it certainly won’t for a saved man. That saved man has the Holy Spirit of God in him all the while he is living his life in sin. How sad to think of a man who had all the potential in the world to live for Christ, later on in life wishing he had a second chance. A Christian who only lives his life for himself will always find himself, at some point, disappointed and sorrowful for doing so.


Why is he disappointed and sorrowful? Because he has been chastened by the Lord. The Lord will not allow the child of God to remain in sin long. John said, "That which is born of God cannot sin", meaning cannot continue in sin. We know that to be the case, because John said earlier "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous." The Lord chastens those He loves. He does not allow them to continue in sin... contrary to what many believe. He will chasten those who are His and because His sheep hear His voice, they will repent and follow Him. They will not commit suicide.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

2. Rewards.

II John 1:8, “Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.”

The Bible is very clear that Christians get rewards in Heaven based upon Christian service in their life. The time in which Christians are rewarded is called the Judgment Seat of Christ, and it follows the Rapture of the Church. In I Corinthians 3 it speaks of Christians being rewarded with gold, silver, and precious stones. Other passages speak of five crowns that the believer can receive as well.

The truth is, no one has received a single reward as of yet. Those rewards will be given out at a future date. I John 1:8, along with parable of the pounds in Luke 19 teach us that it is possible for Christians to lose these rewards. You could live your whole life for Christ and then blow it at the very end, destroying your testimony as many preachers have, and watch your whole life go up in smoke at the Judgment Seat of Christ.


The child of God will lose rewards for the deeds he does in his body. Paul reveals this to the Church at Corinth in his 1st and 2nd epistles. These passages are not speaking of sins, but rather of works in the body. Has nothing to do with self-murder whatsoever.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

3. Millennial Reign.

II Tim. 2:12-13, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”

Some have used verse twelve to try and prove that a Christian can be denied by Christ and lose his salvation. Verse thirteen clears that up – Christ will never deny us a home in Heaven because to do so would mean He’d have to deny Himself (we are joint-heirs with Him and in the body of Christ). However, we do stand to lose a special position following the rapture.

After the Rapture, and the Tribulation, Jesus Christ will rule the world from Jerusalem. This period of time will last one thousand years (see Revelation chapter twenty) and during it the saints will reign with Christ. God says that if you suffer for Christ now on this Earth, that you’ll reign with Him later on. However, if you deny Him, he’ll deny you a Millennial reign.

How sad to be living in the Millennium, and even though life will be so much better than it is now, to know in the back of your mind that because you denied Christ you’re missing out on the wonderful experience of reigning with Him.


One is denying Him when one commits suicide. They are turning their back on Him to follow another. And if they deny Him, He will deny them. They will hear the words... I never knew you.

I do not hold to the unbiblical doctrine of the saved not reigning with Christ in the Millennial Kingdom.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

4. Testimony and Influence.

Rev. 2:5, “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

The candlesticks in Revelation represented churches that were in the presence of Jesus Christ. The church that refused to repent lost the power of God on it as its candlestick was taken away.

An example of this in the Old Testament is Lot. In II Peter 2:8 we read that Lot was righteous and his soul was vexed with the wickedness that was around him on a daily basis. When it came time to leave Sodom, no one took him seriously because of the company he kept (Gen. 19:14). He refused to separate himself when he should have, and as a result he lost his testimony and any influence he had as a believer.


Note that the pastor was told to repent? What does that tell you? More than likely, the pastor repented. He was saved. But he fell into sin. And just as I have shown, God chastened him. His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. The removing of the candlestick means the pastor would be taken out of the Church he was in and be placed elsewhere. Nowhere dos this point allow for the false teaching that one who is saved can commit suicide.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

5. Life.

Acts 5:3-5, “But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5) And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.”

As God killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying in Acts 5, sometimes God just kills Christians who won’t get right. We’ll go into this a little more in the next chapter, but just remember you are not your own. You are bought with a price and we are left here to glorify our Saviour.


I have already addressed the issue of Ananias and Sapphira. They were unsaved. They were not of the multitude that laid the full price at the Apostle's feet.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

6. Health.

I Cor. 11:29-30, “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”

The “damnation” in verse twenty-nine is clarified to be temporal in verse thirty, that is, they suffer the consequences in this life, not the next. It’s possible for a Christian to lose his health because of sin. In this case it’s because they were taking part in the Lord’s Supper with unrepentant hearts; some even died.

There’s a true story about a pastor who had problem with adultery in his church. Several families were involved in “swinging,” and they refused to get right. Oddly enough, they kept coming to church. The details of this story are not clear as to whether or not the pastor attempted to “church” the swingers or not, or even if he knew who they all were. One thing is clear though: the pastor began a policy of having communion every Sunday. The adulterers were there, and they took part in it every week. Within the course of a year, several of them died and the eventually problem went away.

Thankfully, God is longsuffering and merciful, but the Scriptures tell us He will suddenly destroy the stubborn and rebellious. God hates arrogance and pride. We should always try to live right for the Lord because we love him, but God wasn’t kidding when He said “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”


Again, not proving a suicide will be granted eternal life. Notice Paul said that those who drank unworthily drank damnation to themselves? God's children are not, and cannot be damned. Those who drank unworthily were not saved, and God killed them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

7. Peace.

Luke 22:62, “And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.”

Peter wasn’t humming “Peace, peace, wonderful peace, coming down from…” that night. He sat alone that night in the cold air, sobbing that he had denied his Savior. He lost his peace. Many Christians lose their peace because they’ve ruined their relationship with the Father. They’re still saved, but sin has gotten in between them and God.

Many people ignore the clear teachings of the Bible and head down the path of life based upon their own wisdom. This is especially true when it comes to finances and child training. When they wind up in over their heads, they have no where to turn because the road behind them was paved with worldly wisdom. They have no peace because they suddenly realize that the security they had was based in man’s philosophies and not the promises found in the word of God. The only cure for this is to give up everything you thought you knew and dig deep into the word of God for the truth, and then to latch hold of the promises of God with everything you’ve got.


Peter repented, didn't he? And became a driving force in the witness of Christ to the lost. Again, not addressing suicide at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

8. Protection of God.

I Cor. 5:5, “To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

Once again, we are reading about punishment that is dealt in this life – not the next life. In this case we have Paul recommending that a local church “deliver” a young man unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, but that the man’s spirit would still be saved.

Job is the reason why we know that terrible events in one’s life don’t always indicate sin in one’s life. It’s a terrifying thought to think of what Satan would like to do to you. He is evil incarnate, and would do everything to you that he did to Job if God let him. In fact, Satan would have done more to Job, but God limited him.

The protection of God is not something to be taken for granted. God will kill a Christian, allow a Christian to become sick, and He will also remove His hand of protection over a Christian and allow Satan to have his way with him.


Paul told the Church to turn that man over to satan. Elsewhere, he said if a brother be overtaken in a fault to restore such an one in the spirit of meekness. Notice the contrast? The man in Corinth was not saved, but had heard the Gospel. Paul said to oust the man from the fellowship. Why? He wasn't saved and in sin. They were allowing it in their midst and Paul was instructing them to put a stop to it. Paul had hopes that the man had heard enough of the Gospel that that man's soul would be saved when the Lord brought conviction.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


9. Blessings of God.

Mal. 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

In the Old Testament God blessed people for tithing, and there’s no reason to believe that in the New Testament He doesn’t do the same. One can hear testimony after testimony of God’s provision during hard times, and the blessings, both tangible and intangible that come down from God upon the believer. Those who live their lives for the Lord experience the blessings of God in their lives.

There’s nothing quite as wonderful as seeing God do something special in your life. It makes a child of God feel special and uniquely loved by his Father. How sad would it be for a Christian to live his whole life for himself and never know what this is like!


Tithing is not a New Testament command. The child of God is not commanded to tithe today. We are instructed to give as we purpose in our own hearts. This point has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 34 Guests (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...