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2Tim215

Suicide and salvation?

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All sin is a rejection of the leading of the Holy Spirit, not just suicide. Each time you or I sin, we have rejected the leading of the Holy Spirit yet that doesn't mean we are not saved.

Suicide, like any other sin a believer may commit, only proves one has given in to a paticular sin at that moment, not that they are denying Christ.
Suicide is the ultimate rejection, of which you can't repent. One dies in one's sins, one dies without hope. End of story.

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You've posted nothing that proves that every person who committed suicide went to Hell.

Yes, I made fun of you a little. I didn't lie though. You have no evidence for your position.

As far as making fun of you, here are the seven reasons why you are Stubborn in Your Own Unbiblical Opinion:

1. You believe in the Calvinist doctrine of Preservance of the Saints whether you know it or not. You're teaching that every person who dies in a backslidden state was never saved to begin with, something the Bible never teaches at all. Why again are you not preaching that Matthew 24:13 is part of the plan of salvation?

2. I've shown examples of backslidden saints who died, or were close to dying. Your answer is that none of them were saved and they all went to Hell. You have no evidence for this. I have presented evidence that they were saved. You ignore it and ramble on about other things.

3. You claim no Christian can commit suicide. You have no evidence for this. I have shown that Christians can commit fornication, adultery, murder, and any other sin imaginable because they have the same old nature that a lost man has.

4. You have dismissed the ten consequences for rebellion that a Christian suffers who refuses to get right. Perhaps it hasn't dawned on you that those ten consequences are there for a reason - sometimes Christians with their free will choose to not ever get right.

5. You have ignored the fact that the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ saves us from all sin. You think He can't save someone from the sin of suicide.

6. Your stand is completely inconsistent. You send all drunks to Hell, but ignore the liars in the same verse in Revelation. Self-murders go to Hell, but people who murder other people do not necessarily go. Adulterers are okay (like David), but the fornicator that God was getting ready to kill in I Cor. 5 was never saved (and the Bible says his spirit WAS SAVED).

7. You have ignored the fact that suicide is not the worst sin a person can commit and it isn't always in direct rebellion to God. You are being ignorant of the facts about that particular sin and the real world around you. Many times Christians feel hopeless and kill themselves and it has nothing to do with rebellion to God. It's a terrible thing, but you in your heartlessness have automatically sent them all to Hell. This is why I don’t feel bad about not cutting you any slack on this. If I believed what you do in Christian discernment I would keep my mouth shut so as to not rub salt in the wounds of others. I sincerely hope that no one who has family member who have committed suicide run into you and your 'encouraging' and 'uplifting' dogma.
I see you still have no Scripture to refute my belief. I didn't think you did.

On the other hand, I have plenty of Scripture to show suicide is an act denying Christ, rejecting His gift of life eternal. Suicide is murder, and we know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. No murderer. That means, because the suicide is not capable of repenting of his murder, he does not have eternal life. He has proven that he was not saved at all.

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Suicide is the ultimate rejection, of which you can't repent. One dies in one's sins, one dies without hope. End of story.

According to Scripture that's NOT the end of story. Nowhere does Scripture say that every sin one commits must be repented of before they die or they will go to hell. I have heard Catholics teach that, but it's not Scripture.

If a Christian dies while having a sinful thought, do you believe that means they go to hell?

If a Christian dies while commiting adultery, do you believe they go to hell?

If a Christian dies as they gossip with a friend, do you believe they go to hell?

When a Christian is born again they forgiven of all sins, past, present and future. Christ died for all our sins on Calvary, not just some of them, not just those committed prior to our being born again, and not only for those we specifically repent of after salvation, but ALL of our sins.

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No doubt suicide should be very rare among Christians, as should sins like murder, adultery, lying, etc. Yet just because a person commits one of these sins, or dies while commiting one of these sins, doesn't mean they were never born again in Christ.
Suicide is already non-existent in Christians, why call for rare occasions of it?

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1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Suicide is murder. One who kills himself is a murderer. He does not have eternal life abiding in him. He proves his lost estate.

If that verse were taken as you proclaim then no one who ever commited murder, whether physically or in their heart could be saved.

That verse doesn't mean that a Christian who commits murder or suicide immediately prior to death was never saved. This verse is speaking to those who profess faith yet harbor hatred for others in their hearts.

If you die while having a sinful thought or in the midst of committing a sin do you believe you will go to hell?

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I was married to a man who "professed" Christ and CONTINUED to live in sin... his lifestyle was ungodly after salvation. I was told that since he made that profession he was saved and it didn't matter how he lived afterwards and he would go to heaven when he died. This lie is in contrary to God's Word (Romans 6:1-2 and elsewhere).

Nobody is ever going to be sinlessly perfect this side of heaven, but salvation does make a difference. How you walk in your Christian life should reflect Christ...but we all fall short and miss the mark. A sinful lifestyle should not be the "fruit" of the Christian's life. A sinful lifestyle runs contrary to being a "new creature in Christ Jesus".

I realize that our salvation isn't based on our righteousness, but on the blood of Jesus Christ and His righteousness is imputed to us.

My question to everyone is this: Does it matter how we live AFTER salvation? IMHO, suicide is the "cowardly" way out of trials and tribulations and the Christian has no justification to take his/her own life. That's for God to decide.


Yes, it matters how we live, but our salvation is not based on how we live our life, its based on Jesus. And there is no justification for any sin. Yet there is only one sin that the blood of the 'Lamb of God' will not cover.

And even though the save man may commit suicide, he is still saved.

And just because the saved man committed suicide, of which he cannot repent, his salvation was guaranteed the moment in his life that he accepted Jesus as Savior.

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If that verse were taken as you proclaim then no one who ever commited murder, whether physically or in their heart could be saved.

That verse doesn't mean that a Christian who commits murder or suicide immediately prior to death was never saved. This verse is speaking to those who profess faith yet harbor hatred for others in their hearts.

If you die while having a sinful thought or in the midst of committing a sin do you believe you will go to hell?
The difference is, the one who murders another has a chance to repent of that murder and seek God's forgiveness.
A suicide cannot be repented of.

You are comparing apples with oranges.

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I agree that most suicides are cowardly and simply someone trying to run from something. Most suicides are commited by lost people. Suicide, like many other sins, should be very rare among Christians, and yes I agree suicide is a sin because it is the murder of oneself and also we are told that we have been bought with a price and do not belong to ourselves.

For the most part, I think if a Christian is tempted to commit suicide and they actually pause and think about it they will hear from the Holy Ghost and not give in to that temptation to sin. However, there are cases where one commits a sin very quickly upon the temptation coming upon them, whether it be suicide, murder, lying, or whatever.

No doubt suicide should be very rare among Christians, as should sins like murder, adultery, lying, etc. Yet just because a person commits one of these sins, or dies while commiting one of these sins, doesn't mean they were never born again in Christ.

Suicide should not even exist among Christians. The desire of those who have put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ should be to please Him because they love Him and desire to obey Him. Suicide takes God off the throne and puts "self" on the throne and then "self" determines when life should end. In the entire New Testament (except for Judas Isacariot, who went to "his own place") , there is no mention of suicide as a "way of escape" from trials and temptations. I find that strange in the face of the rising suicide rate among "professing" Christians. It's almost like suicide is becoming "acceptable" and justified in the Body of Christ. Just because someone makes a profession of faith doesn't mean they are saved any more than me being born in a bakery makes me a bagel!

Life and death are in God's hands. He is the One Who determines when our life will begin and when it will end.

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The difference is, the one who murders another has a chance to repent of that murder and seek God's forgiveness.
A suicide cannot be repented of.

You are comparing apples with oranges.

Not at all.

If you die while committing any sin you cannot repent of it. Does that mean you will go to hell?

You've been asked this and similar questions yet you don't answer.

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Suicide should not even exist among Christians. The desire of those who have put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ should be to please Him because they love Him and desire to obey Him. Suicide takes God off the throne and puts "self" on the throne and then "self" determines when life should end. In the entire New Testament (except for Judas Isacariot, who went to "his own place") , there is no mention of suicide as a "way of escape" from trials and temptations. I find that strange in the face of the rising suicide rate among "professing" Christians. It's almost like suicide is becoming "acceptable" and justified in the Body of Christ. Just because someone makes a profession of faith doesn't mean they are saved any more than me being born in a bakery makes me a bagel!

Life and death are in God's hands. He is the One Who determines when our life will begin and when it will end.

There should be no sin among Christians but so long as we are in this fallen world living in our corrupt bodies of flesh all Christians will continue to commit sin.

It's very true that it is God who is to determine the beginning and end of life yet there are Christians who use "birth control" to prevent life, and most "birth control" also kills life in the earlies of stages, just as there are some Christians who will murder in heart of actually, and some will unfortunately give into the temptation to commit suicide.

Thanks be to God that through Christ all who are born again have been forgiven of all those sins.

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Not at all.

If you die while committing any sin you cannot repent of it. Does that mean you will go to hell?

You've been asked this and similar questions yet you don't answer.
I have answered. You just don't like the answer. It does not matter if one made a profession of faith and walked like a Christian, talked like a Christian, behaved like a Christian for 40 years of one's life. If that person decided to go out and commit adultery and had a heart attack in the course of that act, that man would go to hell. He died an adulterer. He did not repent of his adultery. All adulterers will have their part with the lake of fire. That which was in his heart was manifest. His heart was deceitful and desperately wicked and the thoughts of his heart surfaced to prove that those 40 years, the cup was clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.

Same with a suicide. The heart truly was not changed. The pig that was washed returned to the mire because the old nature was still there. He was not in Christ at all.

The works of the flesh are manifest which are these... they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, some might say that is speaking of inheritance, and not of Salvation. But wait, all those born into the Kingdom of God are heirs.

Romans 8:17-18 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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I have answered. You just don't like the answer. It does not matter if one made a profession of faith and walked like a Christian, talked like a Christian, behaved like a Christian for 40 years of one's life. If that person decided to go out and commit adultery and had a heart attack in the course of that act, that man would go to hell. He died an adulterer. He did not repent of his adultery. All adulterers will have their part with the lake of fire. That which was in his heart was manifest. His heart was deceitful and desperately wicked and the thoughts of his heart surfaced to prove that those 40 years, the cup was clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.

Same with a suicide. The heart truly was not changed. The pig that was washed returned to the mire because the old nature was still there. He was not in Christ at all.

The works of the flesh are manifest which are these... they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, some might say that is speaking of inheritance, and not of Salvation. But wait, all those born into the Kingdom of God are heirs.

Romans 8:17-18 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


Your salvation is based on works if I read the highlighted portion correctly:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Nowhere does this verse state "through faith AND REPENTANCE"

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Apparently you didn't read it correctly.

It is God who gives repentance to man.
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

That repentance is given because of godly sorrow.
2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Obviously, the one who has committed suicide cannot repent unto Salvation. He was never saved to begin with.

When one rightly divides the Word of Truth, one sees that repentance is a prerequisite to Salvation. If one does not repent, that one cannot be saved.

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Apparently you didn't read it correctly.

It is God who gives repentance to man.
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

That repentance is given because of godly sorrow.
2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Obviously, the one who has committed suicide cannot repent unto Salvation. He was never saved to begin with.

When one rightly divides the Word of Truth, one sees that repentance is a prerequisite to Salvation. If one does not repent, that one cannot be saved.


Oh sorry!! My bad!! Your salvation is not works based. I apologize, must need glasses. I see now your salvation is repentance based. Is repentance not a work?

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I have answered. You just don't like the answer. It does not matter if one made a profession of faith and walked like a Christian, talked like a Christian, behaved like a Christian for 40 years of one's life. If that person decided to go out and commit adultery and had a heart attack in the course of that act, that man would go to hell. He died an adulterer. He did not repent of his adultery. All adulterers will have their part with the lake of fire. That which was in his heart was manifest. His heart was deceitful and desperately wicked and the thoughts of his heart surfaced to prove that those 40 years, the cup was clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.

Same with a suicide. The heart truly was not changed. The pig that was washed returned to the mire because the old nature was still there. He was not in Christ at all.

The works of the flesh are manifest which are these... they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, some might say that is speaking of inheritance, and not of Salvation. But wait, all those born into the Kingdom of God are heirs.

Romans 8:17-18 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

That is Catholic teaching. There is nothing in Scripture which declares every sin one commits after being born again must be specifically repented of in order for their salvation to remain intact.

Scripture declares we are saved by grace through faith, and once saved we are forgiven of ALL our sins, past, present and future. Our salvation is not contingent upon our making sure that every sin we commit is specifically repented of prior to death.

Likely as not, we commit so many sins in the course of a day that we don't even recognize all of them. These include sins of omission, sins of the heart, as well as sins of words and deeds. How many Christians pray as much each day as the Holy Ghost would have us to, or pray for each and every person, place and thing the Holy Ghost would have us to, or read the Bible when, where and how much the Holy Ghost would have us to, how many fully redeem the time each second of each day, how many have each thought and word fully under subjection to Christ each second of every day...none, no, not one; and yet each sin each day isn't specifically noticed nor repented of by Christians and yet that doesn't mean they are not saved nor will God cast them into hell for failing to do that which is humanly impossible.

Our salvation is based upon the grace of God, not upon our ability notice each sin and make sure to repent of each one before we die. According to your Catholic-style teaching, if one were to die while in prayer, yet they hadn't yet repented of each sin of that day, they would go to hell. That's simply not Scripture.

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Suicide is the ultimate rejection, of which you can't repent. One dies in one's sins, one dies without hope. End of story.


Based upon your interpretation, salvation is based upon what I do as a person, not upon what God does through his work in Christ. In your view, it seems to me, accepting the call of God to follow Christ is not enough. From what you are saying, one must repent from sin every time one stumbles. If I do not, then I am going to hell. What happens if I am driving down the road, pick up the cell phone and call some one to tell them a lie, and them am struck by another car and killed? I have not repented and asked God to forgive me of my lie. IN fact, I died while telling a lie. What happens if a teenage believer stumbles and gets drunk, and then drives into a telphone pole killing himself?

God's grace is enough to cover all, even suicide. A person who is desparate enough to commit suicide is in a very, very mentally disturbed state. They often cannot think straight and are trapped in serious depression that none of us can even fathom. It is a terrible thing yes, but God's grace can cover that person's actions.

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I have answered. You just don't like the answer. It does not matter if one made a profession of faith and walked like a Christian, talked like a Christian, behaved like a Christian for 40 years of one's life. If that person decided to go out and commit adultery and had a heart attack in the course of that act, that man would go to hell. He died an adulterer. He did not repent of his adultery. All adulterers will have their part with the lake of fire. That which was in his heart was manifest. His heart was deceitful and desperately wicked and the thoughts of his heart surfaced to prove that those 40 years, the cup was clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.



Thank you for posting this. It shows that you do not believe in eternal security or salvation by grace. You may profess to, you may even think you do - but you don't. If nothing else, you don't understand salvation by grace or eternal security, and I know you're too stubborn to listen no matter how many people may try to explain it to you.

By taking this stand on a man who appears to be a Christian his whole life but goes to Hell because of dying after one act of adultery, you must also concede that if a person dies after committing any of the following sins they too must go to Hell because they died in that particular sin:

Rev. 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

1. Fearful. If a person dies scared they go to Hell, they were never saved to begin with.

2. Unbelieving. If someone dies doubting God, they go to Hell.

3. Abominable. Someone who is morally repugnant. Of course you'd go with this. The question is, what makes a person "morally repugnant?" You could assign anything to that.

4. Murderers. This would include suicide, murder of another, or unwarranted anger in your heart towards another person according to Jesus.

5. Whoremongers. This is fornication, adultery, prostitution... and porn according to Jesus. If a Christian man dies after looking upon a woman to lust after her, be it a magazine or a billboard, according to your system of 'grace' he was never saved and must go to Hell.

6. Sorcerers. According to Romans 1:32 you could make the argument that if someone died after watching Harry Potter they'd go to Hell. That, honestly, wouldn't surprise me if it came from you.

7. Idolaters. If a Christian puts anything in the place of God, be it in worship or esteem it more important (like a job, money, or reputation), then they go to Hell when they die.

8. Liars. If you lie and die you fry, is that it?

In fact, according to I John 3:8 if you sin at all you will go to Hell!

I John 3:8, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

So I made a mistake and I'd like to apologize to all my Calvinist friends on this forum. You are not a Calvinist; you are a Catholic for all practical purposes. You may not pray the rosary, eat the cracker, and confess your sins to a man - but on a practical level you believe the underlying foundation doctrine of all Catholics.

You believe in grace (so do the Catholics!), but that someone must die in a "state of grace." They must die with all of their sins currently confessed or they go to Hell. You attempt to look like a Baptist by claiming that they were "never saved to begin with," but you've already stated that even if a person has shown evidence of salvation but dies after committing just one of the above sins they will go to Hell. In other words, no one can really be sure of their salvation (A major Catholic teaching!) because what if I die after doubting God about my finances, or what if I die after bailing out on church (In the Catholic world this would be missing mass!) for whatever reason and therefore die in a state of idolatry? If I lie and then die I will fry? How can anyone be sure they will go to Heaven under what you believe?!?!?!?!?!

I think everyone here understands that you are way off on this thing. But can I ask you a couple of questions:

1. Do you understand the doctrine of the two natures? The old nature which makes you sin after you are saved is not eradicated once you are saved. You do understand that, don't you?

2. Do you understand that even though a Christian sins all the time (I John 1:8-10), that on a spiritual level (that is when it comes to whether or not he'll go to Heaven or Hell) that Christian never sins again for the rest of his life? That's right, on an earthly, physical, immediate level we sin all the time, but on a spiritual and eternal level we never sin again after we are saved? Look at this verse:

I John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

That verse clearly states that a child of God doesn't sin, and that he can't sin. As in he doesn't have the ability to sin. Once a person is saved, on an eternal level God never sees another sin, ever again.

It reminds me of this verse:

Numbers 23:21, "He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them."

Yes, there are consequences to sin and living in an unrepentant lifestyle - but our eternal destiny is based upon Jesus Christ and what He did for us on Calvary. Not on ourselves. This completely wipes out your entire argument in one fell swoop because we as Christians are not eternally accountable for our actions, as in when it comes to our eternal and final destination. You will reject this because, being a normal human being that you are, you reject what real grace is. Grace is something you don't deserve and couldn't ever possibly hope to earn.

That's real grace. Edited by Rick Schworer

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Salvation is a gift from God. And repentance is absolutely necessary for salvation - it is not a work. That is a false doctrine being pushed by quick prayerism followers. And it is not biblical.

Neither is it biblical to dismiss the goodness of God's forgiveness. When Christ died on the cross, shedding His blood, He shed it for the forgiveness of ALL of our sins. When we turn to Christ for forgiveness, in repentance AND faith, we are forgiven of ALL sins: past, present AND future. And we have eternal life. When a Christian sins, a wall can form between the Christian and our Heavenly Father. That wall does not doom us to Hell - but it does make a Christian miserable while they are away from fellowship. If death occurs during that time, Hell does not await. That is a heinous misapplication of scripture.

Having said that, I think the discussion has gone far enough. Both "sides" have expressed themselves. :threadlockedbc5:

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