Should I Stay or leave?

[FundyPat]

Okay, now that I am in here, with family. I need to talk to you all about something.

Recently, I started attending a new Church. It is this one here. At first, it was great. But there's been some issues.

First off, I should give a little background. I got burned about 5 years ago, at a Church, which claimed to be IFB. Matthew 18-15-17 will explain all that. (Go and Tell) (and not go and pick up a cell phone and accuse me of a bunch of nonsense that was not true, after I work my butt off for you remodeling your office...)

Anyhow, I was up at the hospital with my Dad and this guy walks over and gives me a tract. I look at it, and I tell the man, "This is great, But I have been saved for 29 years." he says, "Praise the Lord! Where do you go to Church?" and I tell him, "Nowhere, I got burned here about 5 years ago by a Pastor. Anyhow, he invites me to this Church. I've been going for a few weeks now. There are a few issues:

1. They do not have a piano player who's very faithful. So, they use a electric guitar and bass for music, when they sing hymns. I left Pentecostalism in 2004. Long story; saved a Baptist, changed over to Pentecostalism due to school change. I was 14 and only saved about a year and a half. I knew zilch at the time. --- anyhow, seeing those guitars flips me out a bit. If I had a Church only Piano and Organs would be permitted for music, otherwise, we'd sing without music. I just don't believe in giving an opening to the devil.
2. I tend to believe the Pastor is not too keen on preaching separation. We're in the dept in the bible here as of late. 2 Thess 4 --- 1 Timothy 1 and he's more interested in preaching against legalism.
3. The Pastor does not have an authority. Now this one, ya'll might not agree with, but here it is, the man who is the Pastor there, lead music for years. in 1993, the Pastor of the Church resigned and left to take another Pastorate. Now, I have always believed that a Pastor should have an authority to preach, either from a Denominational board, or from another Church. Well, he was just elected Pastor there. isn't that like not Biblical? Does he not need to have a formal authority from another Church that has an authority? Anyhow, he one day said he felt the need to be the Pastor and he was elected by the Church. Is that not wrong?
   

I asked these same questions over at Baptist board and got slammed for being legalistic.

Am I off base? Because I know of another Church that appears on David Cloud's list that has the asterisk. I might check it out. But I'm wondering, is this enough to warrant leaving? or am I making mountains outta molehills?

[Seth Doty]

It doesn't look like the type of church I would attend if I had better options. The question is are there better options...

As far as the specific points you raise, I am not a big fan of an electric guitar in church but that isn't because I think it is inherently sinful, it is more because I disprove of the type of music and manner in which they are usually played. As you point out they are not "generally" associated with Godly music.

As to the separation issue if that is the feeling your getting your probably correct, however with that said in and of itself there is nothing wrong with preaching/warning against legalism, which is adding works to salvation.

As far as point number three I do not share your view so can be of little help. It would not bother me if everything else was in order but then again I don't believe "authority" to preach comes from anyone but God.

As far as to the overall question of should you stay or go that is a very difficult question to answer for someone else, and online without ever having attended the church. I have visited some churches I would not want to be a member of even though I agreed with them doctrinally simply because a very strong and evident spirit of pride was there. On the other hand I have visited some churches I with a much better spirit that I still would not be a member of for doctrinal reasons.


If your not firmly entrenched in the church then checking around to see if there are better options is not a bad idea, even so we should be careful not to expect to much. Some people seem to expect virtual perfection and seem to switch churches every couple years or less.

[FundyPat]

It doesn't look like the type of church I would attend if I had better options. The question is are there better options...

As far as the specific points you raise, I am not a big fan of an electric guitar in church but that isn't because I think it is inherently sinful, it is more because I disprove of the type of music and manner in which they are usually played. As you point out they are not "generally" associated with Godly music.

As to the separation issue if that is the feeling your getting your probably correct, however with that said in and of itself there is nothing wrong with preaching/warning against legalism, which is adding works to salvation.

As far as point number three I do not share your view so can be of little help. It would not bother me if everything else was in order but then again I don't believe "authority" to preach comes from anyone but God.

As far as to the overall question of should you stay or go that is a very difficult question to answer for someone else, and online without ever having attended the church. I have visited some churches I would not want to be a member of even though I agreed with them doctrinally simply because a very strong and evident spirit of pride was there. On the other hand I have visited some churches I with a much better spirit that I still would not be a member of for doctrinal reasons.


If your not firmly entrenched in the church then checking around to see if there are better options is not a bad idea, even so we should be careful not to expect to much. Some people seem to expect virtual perfection and seem to switch churches every couple years or less.

I hear ya man thanks.... :)

[swathdiver]

Don't think it's a good idea to be church hopping/shopping.

#1 if they're introducing CCM and this poor instruments, you should speak out against them. They will, they do rot our churches from the inside out. Before you know, you'll think you're back at a Pentecostal church attending rock concerts and waving your arms around.

As for point #3, what does the Bible say? It does not agree with your view. If the fellow felt called by the Lord to be your Shepherd, by all means support him, pray for him and offer to help him.

The article on the first page of the first link and the whole of the second have been a blessing for me, maybe they'll be a blessing for you too:

http://www.baptistchallenge.org/challenge/94dectbc.pdf

http://www.baptistchallenge.org/challenge/BapHandBk.pdf

[FundyPat]

Brethren,

I decided to err on the side of caution and called to inform the Pastor that I would not be returning. I know in my Spirit that it is best for me and that Church.

I will find a goodly home. Sooner or later.

Thanks for your advice and I thank the Lord for Godly Wisdom.

-Pat

[heartstrings]

Okay, now that I am in here, with family. I need to talk to you all about something.

Recently, I started attending a new Church. It is this one here. At first, it was great. But there's been some issues.

First off, I should give a little background. I got burned about 5 years ago, at a Church, which claimed to be IFB. Matthew 18-15-17 will explain all that. (Go and Tell) (and not go and pick up a cell phone and accuse me of a bunch of nonsense that was not true, after I work my butt off for you remodeling your office...)

Anyhow, I was up at the hospital with my Dad and this guy walks over and gives me a tract. I look at it, and I tell the man, "This is great, But I have been saved for 29 years." he says, "Praise the Lord! Where do you go to Church?" and I tell him, "Nowhere, I got burned here about 5 years ago by a Pastor. Anyhow, he invites me to this Church. I've been going for a few weeks now. There are a few issues:

1. They do not have a piano player who's very faithful. So, they use a electric guitar and bass for music, when they sing hymns. I left Pentecostalism in 2004. Long story; saved a Baptist, changed over to Pentecostalism due to school change. I was 14 and only saved about a year and a half. I knew zilch at the time. --- anyhow, seeing those guitars flips me out a bit. If I had a Church only Piano and Organs would be permitted for music, otherwise, we'd sing without music. I just don't believe in giving an opening to the devil.
2. I tend to believe the Pastor is not too keen on preaching separation. We're in the dept in the bible here as of late. 2 Thess 4 --- 1 Timothy 1 and he's more interested in preaching against legalism.
3. The Pastor does not have an authority. Now this one, ya'll might not agree with, but here it is, the man who is the Pastor there, lead music for years. in 1993, the Pastor of the Church resigned and left to take another Pastorate. Now, I have always believed that a Pastor should have an authority to preach, either from a Denominational board, or from another Church. Well, he was just elected Pastor there. isn't that like not Biblical? Does he not need to have a formal authority from another Church that has an authority? Anyhow, he one day said he felt the need to be the Pastor and he was elected by the Church. Is that not wrong?
   

I asked these same questions over at Baptist board and got slammed for being legalistic.

Am I off base? Because I know of another Church that appears on David Cloud's list that has the asterisk. I might check it out. But I'm wondering, is this enough to warrant leaving? or am I making mountains outta molehills?

The only possible way for anyone to have "authority" is for men to give and recognize it. If your church lets him preach and lead...he's authorized. Benny Hinn, also has the authority to speak, granted by his followers, but is he CALLED by God? I wonder what portion of those, who claim to be called, really are.

[JerryNumbers]

I would like to touch one thing, authority to preach the Gospel only comes from God, ordination only means agreement, approval, that man is a God called preacher. And of course, if he was not ordained by a God fearing, teaching church, them the ordinations means nothing before God.

Getting burned, bad experience, yes, there be many that suffer such things. Yet no one suffers as bad of an experience as our Savior did, yet He did not throw in the towel. Remember, He set the example for us to follow, not someone that had a bad experience, them dropped out of church, no longer supporting the missions of Jesus Churches, and no longer doing the works Jesus ordained us, Ephesians 2:10, to at the time we were saved.

[heartstrings]

I was referring to the "God given authority" as "the call". Even if the God truly calls a man to preach, that man still must be allowed by men to preach even if he does it on the street. We once had a young man who came to our church who announced that he was "called to preach".so our pastor let him preach. But that didn't last long at all. Last I heard he was divorced and driving a beer truck for a living. He would not have had the opportunity to 'preach; in our pulpit had our pastor not "authorized" such to take place. We had another man who also claimed he was a preacher who was allowed to preach behind our pulpit. While he was doing it, he did some things worthy of prison time. Hence the only assurance that WE had that they were truly "called" was that THEY SAID they were preachers and that our church men had given them full permission to preach in our church. Understand what I mean?

[FundyPat]

Don't think it's a good idea to be church hopping/shopping.

#1 if they're introducing CCM and this poor instruments, you should speak out against them. They will, they do rot our churches from the inside out. Before you know, you'll think you're back at a Pentecostal church attending rock concerts and waving your arms around.

I doubt that very highly. I let my feelings be known about the guitars and it was met with blank stares. So, I just decided to not go back.

But thanks.

-Pat

[John81]

I doubt that very highly. I let my feelings be known about the guitars and it was met with blank stares. So, I just decided to not go back.

But thanks.

-Pat

Good plan. Someone new in a church making complaints and/or trying to change things isn't a good postion to be in and is most often met with nothing but hostility.

[FundyPat]

Good plan. Someone new in a church making complaints and/or trying to change things isn't a good postion to be in and is most often met with nothing but hostility.

Yeah, I know. I should be clear; I didn't make a scene or anything. I just spoke to the guitar player about it. I did, however, to avoid any problem, just not go back. To be honest with you, however, I am not in any hurry to go back to any Church really. If you'll kindly read this here, you will totally understand as to why.

I'm not bitter, I'm just really gun-shy about getting involved with another Church.