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Perhaps I'm more out of touch with the world than I thought


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Alimantado....the Bible says "It is good for a man not to touch a woman...nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife....."

Marriage is taught as the form for sex or touching. God says "The marriage bed is undefiled".

Joseph did not "know" Mary until she had delivered Jesus.

I do not know about kissing, but judging by "it is good for a man not to touch a woman" I would guess it would be awfully safe to avoid kissing until marriage. I know from personal experience that kissing usually leads to sex. Most married couples actually can attest to the fact that some real good french kissing leads to, well, alot more...alot of the time.

We chose to wait til our marriage day to kiss. And my husband can attest to the fact I performed quite well that day, at least for him, and that's all that matters.

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Further to my post earlier--can someone provide a quick summary of the Biblical position on sex? Most kids seem to be taught that it is always dirty and wrong' date=' including thinking about it. That's what I was taught, though not always directly. This view of sex can remain into adulthood, even if it is sublated or modified by other teachings/experiences. Perhaps there's a practical reason for teaching kids like this, but I was just wondering what the Biblical standpoint was [i']for adults. Danny's made some interesting points, I think.


Since Kitagrl already explain what the bible says, I think I go ahead and explain my opinion.

I personally believe that parents should explain their teenage children why their body is changing and make it a positive thing for marriage.

And that not waiting before marriage has alot consequences to it. Like when a boyfriend stop seeing you or used you for sex. Or you got pregnant with no father in the picture , leaving you as a single parent with some struggles(marriage is a sure guaranteed that your child WILL have a father,although not always<---which can be caused by negative outlook on marriage and family).Or you will be forced give your children up for adoptions. I have ran into a few people who told me that they rather have abortion than give their children up for adoptions out of fear of child abuse. And Abortion itself is emotionally traumatic for some women.

Then you have AIDS and such, although we won't know if the husband has it, so I personally think kids should be taught how to protect themselves in case if their spouse do have AIDS (you know, prepare them to protect them before their honeymoon) .. The last thing they need is to die on their children like what's happening in Africa. Most wives end up with abortion because they have AIDS. So that's why I don't have a problem with teaching young adults about protection. As long as they treat sex as only for marriage.

And goodness sake, men need to treat sex with some respect and love and not as "getting some" Too many men have abuse the meaning of sex so much that women have a negative view on men.
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I know there are those out there who teach the "sex is dirty" stuff (either intentionally or unintentionally) and that's certainly the wrong approach and unbiblical.

That said, I don't think anyone here is speaking of teaching such. It seems all of us have been proposing the teaching of sex biblically. Sex is wonderful between a married couple. There are various reasons, Biblical, medical and otherwise, for not having sex outside of marriage. It's also important to teach that having sexual thoughts or desires is natural, but such need to be dealt with properly (in a biblical manner). It's one thing to notice Cindy and think she's got nice lips or whatever, but it's very much another to dwell on that thought and to allow it to turn into lust...for example.

There are always exceptions, but for the most part, I don't think ones ability to kiss is that much influenced by what age they started kissing or how much "practice" they had prior to marriage.

I fully agree that teaching sex is dirty and all such thoughts should be supressed as dirty and the act of sex is dirty and that sort of thing is wrong, unbiblical and even wicked. I've read several stories about women who were brought up with such beliefs (many were old time Catholics who were taught that sex was dirty and only to be had when trying to have a child in marriage and it's something not to be enjoyed because that's sinful) who suffered much throughout their lives because of such teachings. They felt guilty when they enjoyed sex with their husbands, they were often rigid, cold and unresponsive during sex for fear they might enjoy it or appear too eager, etc.

Teaching sex biblically and honestly (appropriate to age and understanding levels, of course) is our proper response.

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Let me assure you, I speak from experience. My wife was firm that she didn't want to kiss until after marriage. The problem was that she didn't know how, when or why to kiss, and still doesn't. I'm not saying people should go on long make-out sessions before marriage, but too much emphasis on total abstinence, even of one's thoughts will lead to problems.

Homosexuals do what they do because they create patterns of response. When dealing with former homosexuals who are trying to recover from their problem and establish a healthy approach to sex, they must unlearn deeply embedded patterns. That exact same process--embedding patterns of response--can be created by an over-emphasis on abstinence which can produce frigidity and an apathy toward sex. God did not create sex for us to abandon it or participate in it half-heartedly. While adultery, fornication and promiscuity are sins, so is taking the wonderful gift of God and treating it as something bad or mediocre.



I just want you to know that you and your wife learn together. She does not need to learn how to kiss by another man to prepare herself for marriage. And beside, what if you were the first man she learned to kiss before marriage?

btw, many married people stop kissing after they got married, if they kissed alot before marriage. So this is a typical marriage problems no matter what kind of upbringing they had or what kind of lifestyle. I hear so many secular people complained that their marriage is bland, lifeless, etc.
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I just want you to know that you and your wife learn together. She does not need to learn how to kiss by another man to prepare herself for marriage. And beside, what if you were the first man she learned to kiss before marriage?

btw, many married people stop kissing after they got married, if they kissed alot before marriage. So this is a typical marriage problems no matter what kind of upbringing they had or what kind of lifestyle. I hear so many secular people complained that their marriage is bland, lifeless, etc.


:goodpost:

I know of many older couples (some from the past, some current) who no longer kiss much. When they do kiss it's the simple "pucker kiss" or "smooch" (whatever folks call it) and that's about it.

My wife and I still kiss but not near as much as we used to but there is no problem involved, that's just the way we are now.
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Alimantado,

Sex is not taboo. It shouldn't be a dirty word or thought of as a dirty deed. The only restriction God puts on sex is that it is to be between a married (to each other) man and woman. And God created both men and women to enjoy it.

It is the world that has put a sinful spin on sex. Hellywood, Playboy, Hustler, etc. market sex as a naughty pleasure, something to do or watch away from Mom and Dad's rules or "the old bag" [wife]. That is why some parents, mainly women, hesitate to talk about sex to their kids or they will tell them it is dirty. They want to keep their kids away from the sinful exploitations of sex. God doesn't do that, however.

God thought that married sex is so important He devoted an entire book of the Bible to the subject of married love - [u]Song of Solomon[/u]. That beautiful, poetic book graphically expresses physical and emotional love between a man and a woman.

Proverbs chapter 5 is devoted to warnings against the "strange woman" while exhorting a man to "rejoice with the wife of your youth". It isn't just sex = no, no, no, bad, bad, bad. It is that sex is wrong in this context so enjoy it in the proper context. The whole chapter is in the spoiler if you want to read it. [spoiler]>


1 My son, attend unto my wisdom, and bow thine ear to my understanding:
2 That thou mayest regard discretion, and that thy lips may keep knowledge.
3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.
8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:
9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;
11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,
12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;
13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me!
14 I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly.
15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.
16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.
17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.
18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?
21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings.
22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.[/spoiler]

Paul exhorted the married Corinthian Christians to engage in sexual activity on a regular basis as a guard against fornication.

[i]1 Corinthians 7

1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless

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Alimantado,

Sex is not taboo. It shouldn't be a dirty word or thought of as a dirty deed. The only restriction God puts on sex is that it is to be between a married (to each other) man and woman. And God created both men and women to enjoy it.

It is the world that has put a sinful spin on sex. Hellywood, Playboy, Hustler, etc. market sex as a naughty pleasure, something to do or watch away from Mom and Dad's rules or "the old bag" [wife]. That is why some parents, mainly women, hesitate to talk about sex to their kids or they will tell them it is dirty. They want to keep their kids away from the sinful exploitations of sex. God doesn't do that, however.

God thought that married sex is so important He devoted an entire book of the Bible to the subject of married love - Song of Solomon. That beautiful, poetic book graphically expresses physical and emotional love between a man and a woman.

Proverbs chapter 5 is devoted to warnings against the "strange woman" while exhorting a man to "rejoice with the wife of your youth". It isn't just sex = no, no, no, bad, bad, bad. It is that sex is wrong in this context so enjoy it in the proper context. The whole chapter is in the spoiler if you want to read it.

1 My son, attend unto my wisdom, and bow thine ear to my understanding: 2 That thou mayest regard discretion, and that thy lips may keep knowledge. 3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil: 4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword. 5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell. 6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them. 7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth. 8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house: 9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel: 10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger; 11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed, 12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof; 13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me! 14 I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly. 15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. 16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. 17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee. 18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. 19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. 20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger? 21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings. 22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.

<< Proverbs 5 >>



























Paul exhorted the married Corinthian Christians to engage in sexual activity on a regular basis as a guard against fornication.

1 Corinthians 7

1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless

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Who taught Adam and Eve? Did God? Or did they learn on their own? Did God build something into the mind of both man and woman about sex?

I think dirty would be a good word to use when talking about sex outside of marriage, for it is sinful and dirty outside of marriage, but in marriage it is not.

I think to much emphasis is put on sex now days, so many marriage fail, perhaps they're expecting to much.

Sad, today it seems everything is about sex, and the people who sell stuff use sex to sell their products.

And of course there's Hollywood, they have made any kind of sex OK, and anyone who disagrees with them a prude.

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Who taught Adam and Eve? Did God? Or did they learn on their own? Did God build something into the mind of both man and woman about sex?

I think dirty would be a good word to use when talking about sex outside of marriage, for it is sinful and dirty outside of marriage, but in marriage it is not.

I think to much emphasis is put on sex now days, so many marriage fail, perhaps they're expecting to much.

Sad, today it seems everything is about sex, and the people who sell stuff use sex to sell their products.

And of course there's Hollywood, they have made any kind of sex OK, and anyone who disagrees with them a prude.


This is the reason parents and churches need to rightly address the topic today.

As you point out, sex is everywhere and used for everything. Kids grow up today with sex right in front of them and in their ears nearly everywhere they go. They need to learn the truth from parents and to hear the biblical aspects taught in church.

Those who don't learn right find themselves learning from all the wrong sources and that often leads to wrong expectations and problems.

I do agree, our society today is far too sex saturated.
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You guys are missing the point. It goes beyond just kissing and just my experience. A friend of mine, who was a virgin when she got married, told me (years later) that she cried with shame on her wedding night because she couldn't shed the feeling that she'd just done something dirty. An over-emphasis on the rejection of sex leads to harmful, hard-to-eliminate problems.

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You guys are missing the point. It goes beyond just kissing and just my experience. A friend of mine' date=' who was a virgin when she got married, told me (years later) that she cried with shame on her wedding night because she couldn't shed the feeling that she'd just done something dirty. An over-emphasis on the rejection of sex leads to harmful, hard-to-eliminate problems.[/quote']


Danny, I honestly don't think it's an over-emphasis on the rejection of sex. I think it's a wrong teaching of it by the parents. Maybe it's the same idea you are trying to get across. But, really, I have to insert here that our church teaches abstinence - and not even any kissing. And guess what - they have happy marriages. Oh, things aren't perfect. But they're happy. And judging by the number of kids there are running around our church, I don't think they're having any major problems.
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You guys are missing the point. It goes beyond just kissing and just my experience. A friend of mine' date=' who was a virgin when she got married, told me (years later) that she cried with shame on her wedding night because she couldn't shed the feeling that she'd just done something dirty. An over-emphasis on the rejection of sex leads to harmful, hard-to-eliminate problems.[/quote']


I don't think teaching abstience teaches sex as dirty. People have all kind of reasons why sex is awful for them. I think it has alot to do with their parental child-rearing. My family used to make fun of sex, you know make jokes. I don't want to talk about it to my family members or friends at all. My husband's family do the same thing, make jokes (my MIL used to make porn cakes for a living). And my hubby doesn't really talk about sex either. They had really polluted the meaning of sex alot. So have the media. They won't treat sex as something special and meaningful anymore.but yes, treating sex in general as dirty can have affect on you. But so can SO many things. I know you think flushing the thought of sex all together from your mind affect marriages but I don't think so. It's ok for a man to find a girl pretty and attractive but he shouldn't be fantasizing her (unless he is married to her). That itself can pollute the meaning of love and sex. It's what playboy/playgirl magazine been trying to toy with: A person's fantasy.

Most women cry on their first time. Especially if they didn't wait before marriage. I cried. I lost something that I can't take back.
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