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Perhaps I'm more out of touch with the world than I thought


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Because I just didn't find this article to be anything majorly out of the ordinary, or particularly newsworthy.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,459247,00.html

CHICAGO ? Won't kiss on the first date? How about waiting until marriage?

Chicagoans Melody LaLuz, 28, and Claudaniel Fabien, 30, shared their first kiss Saturday at the altar. The two teach abstinence at the city's public schools and practiced what they preached to their teenage students.

The Chicago Tribune reports that the couple had never kissed and that they had never been alone together in a house.

A friend of LaLuz says wedding guests cheered and stomped during the two-minute smooch.

LaLuz and Fabien say they have no worries about how they will spend their honeymoon in the Bahamas.
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I found it a bit disturbing. There's a problem with too much emphasis on abstinence, in that while sex before marriage is wrong, setting yourself up mentally as a "eunuch" has long lasting repercussions.

There are two ways to break a horse. One way is quick. You simply beat the horse into submission. You either ride it until it gives up, or do somethign else cruel to it until it weakly submits to you.

The other way is slower, but preserved the horses "spirit". It learns to obey you, but maintains its energy.

If you intend the horse for simple menial jobs, then you use the first approach.

If you want the horse for racing, or any other things that will require the mental strength a horse with an unbroken spirit will have, then you use the second method.

Abstinence works the same way. If you don't plan to ever have sex, then you'd want to completely subdue the desire, and shape your mind to make it a non-factor.

However if you plan to get married one day, you do not want to wind up at the starting line of a big race with a spiritless horse fit only for plowing the field. (while I'm sure there are plenty of puns people could derive from that, none are intended)

I've seen first hand the life-long problem faced by young Christians who took the wrong approach to purity. Rather than keeping this great gift under control, they completely subdued it, and once married had serious problems trying to undue the damage.

Sex is mostly psychological, and patterns and habits form the foundation and boundaries of that psychological "engine". This aspect is ignored in secular circles (even though it is well founded in facts and research) because it flies in the face of the homosexual agenda. But unfortunately it's also ignored in Christian circles because too many people see the first approach to abstinence as easier to maintain, than the second, and healthier approach.

One should practice abstinence of the body, but not abstinence of the mind, unless you plan to never, ever have sex.

Waiting until marriage to kiss is evidence of taking the concept too far.

C.S. Lewis once wrote...

In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the gelding be fruitful.

He was actually talking about moral relativism, but I think the thought is apply applied to the excesses of chastity seen practiced today.

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For most these days, it's expected that by the time a child is 12 or 13 they have already had "dates" and have done lots of kissing...and often, much more.

One recent study indicated a very large percentage of 15 year olds were no longer virgins and that those much younger, while still "technically" virgins, were even so very sexually active.

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I found it a bit disturbing. There's a problem with too much emphasis on abstinence, in that while sex before marriage is wrong, setting yourself up mentally as a "eunuch" has long lasting repercussions.

There are two ways to break a horse. One way is quick. You simply beat the horse into submission. You either ride it until it gives up, or do somethign else cruel to it until it weakly submits to you.

The other way is slower, but preserved the horses "spirit". It learns to obey you, but maintains its energy.

If you intend the horse for simple menial jobs, then you use the first approach.

If you want the horse for racing, or any other things that will require the mental strength a horse with an unbroken spirit will have, then you use the second method.

Abstinence works the same way. If you don't plan to ever have sex, then you'd want to completely subdue the desire, and shape your mind to make it a non-factor.

However if you plan to get married one day, you do not want to wind up at the starting line of a big race with a spiritless horse fit only for plowing the field. (while I'm sure there are plenty of puns people could derive from that, none are intended)

I've seen first hand the life-long problem faced by young Christians who took the wrong approach to purity. Rather than keeping this great gift under control, they completely subdued it, and once married had serious problems trying to undue the damage.

Sex is mostly psychological, and patterns and habits form the foundation and boundaries of that psychological "engine". This aspect is ignored in secular circles (even though it is well founded in facts and research) because it flies in the face of the homosexual agenda. But unfortunately it's also ignored in Christian circles because too many people see the first approach to abstinence as easier to maintain, than the second, and healthier approach.

One should practice abstinence of the body, but not abstinence of the mind, unless you plan to never, ever have sex.

Waiting until marriage to kiss is evidence of taking the concept too far.

C.S. Lewis once wrote...

In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the gelding be fruitful.

He was actually talking about moral relativism, but I think the thought is apply applied to the excesses of chastity seen practiced today.


A: You've obviously never broken a horse, as your analogy is so out of whack that I don't know where to begin. Suffice it to say however, that there are ways of gentling a horse that don't involve riding it into submission, or using other "cruel" means.

B: What on earth do you mean by "abstinence of the mind". I think it's important that you define this, before we continue this discussion.
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One should practice abstinence of the body' date=' but not abstinence of the mind, unless you plan to never, ever have sex.[/quote']
Danny, I think that even in secular circles (at least where I live), children are brought up to understand that sex is per se dirty and wrong--including thinking about it, which is lustful and perverted. These early ideas may be sublated by other ones later on, but that's the first thing children are taught and those ideas remain ingrained for some. What does the Bible actually say about this sort of thing?
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There are child molesters (especially in the family) who treat it as a beautiful thing... and these kids grow up feeling worst than ever.

Parents know their kids are experimental and curiosity does make them try things. Some kids will ask another kid to take off his clothes so he could have a peek. Because they are not mature enough to understand, We have to teach them about private parts are meant to be private. At least until they are mature enough to understand why it must be private.
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You didn't bother to read the whole post. I said there were two main ways of breaking a horse, the quick and the slow. I never said there was only one way, and the whole point was that there are two way.

To train your mind to think negatively of sex. Even if it's to push all thoughts of sex away, you are establishing patterns that will can bring problems later.
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Danny Carlton thanks so much for assuming that I have sexual problems in my marriage because I did not kiss until I was married. :roll

If you have trained yourself to push away thoughts of sex, then yes, there may be problems that you even now are unaware of. the point is that it's very easy to overdo the emphasis on abstinence, way beyond the point of simply abstaining from sex until marriage.
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I don't think most people go to those extremes, Danny. I don't plan on kissing my wife until marriage but I certainly won't be having negative thoughts about sex. :frog
Plus, I don't have a problem with holding hands or giving hugs that are appropriate between an unmarried couple.

Let me assure you, I speak from experience. My wife was firm that she didn't want to kiss until after marriage. The problem was that she didn't know how, when or why to kiss, and still doesn't. I'm not saying people should go on long make-out sessions before marriage, but too much emphasis on total abstinence, even of one's thoughts will lead to problems.

Homosexuals do what they do because they create patterns of response. When dealing with former homosexuals who are trying to recover from their problem and establish a healthy approach to sex, they must unlearn deeply embedded patterns. That exact same process--embedding patterns of response--can be created by an over-emphasis on abstinence which can produce frigidity and an apathy toward sex. God did not create sex for us to abandon it or participate in it half-heartedly. While adultery, fornication and promiscuity are sins, so is taking the wonderful gift of God and treating it as something bad or mediocre.
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Further to my post earlier--can someone provide a quick summary of the Biblical position on sex? Most kids seem to be taught that it is always dirty and wrong, including thinking about it. That's what I was taught, though not always directly. This view of sex can remain into adulthood, even if it is sublated or modified by other teachings/experiences. Perhaps there's a practical reason for teaching kids like this, but I was just wondering what the Biblical standpoint was for adults. Danny's made some interesting points, I think.

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Oh please, Danny....so you are building your theory, not on Biblical principles, but because your wife is a bad kisser????

Seriously?

This is a prime example of someone building theories based on personal experience. Discipline of both mind and body is vital in the Christian life. Guess what. When I'm dieting, I say no to chocolate and dessert. I try not to eat it. I try not to think about my desire for a big bowl of ice cream or a King Sized candy bar. But that doesn't mean that after I lose ten pounds, I will enjoy it any less! As a matter of fact, I will enjoy it MORE because it is without GUILT that I will be partaking of the sweets.

Something for you to think about.

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