Calvinism on the March

[Brother Rick]

I was having a discussing somewhere else about the whole I John 3:9 thing. That verse is one of the single greatest verses on eternal security in the entire Bible! A born again Christian in John 3:9 lacks the ability to sin and yet that same person (in the same book) is told that if he says he has no sin he's lying in I John 1:10. Comparing this to Romans 7:15-24, Hebrews 10:14; 4:12, and Col. 2:11-13 the explanation is clear: part of you sins and part of you is unable to sin. The old nature sins the new nature does not. The old nature lives within your body, which will be replaced with a new body at the resurrection. The body of a Christian sins but his soul and spirit, where the new nature reside, does not.

Chapter 16 in my eternal security book is all about this. Click here for the link to read that chapter.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[Invicta]

I find it amazing that intelligent people believe some are chosen and some not. The entire bible shows free will in man's interaction with God from Adam's creation and fall to the last verse in Revelation. There has always been choice and the consequences for those choices. It's very easy to take individual verses and passages out of context and create a doctrine, but we must never forget that the Word is also a True history of God's dealings with man and a revelation of His character in those dealings. We must take the Word in it's entirety from first word to last and if we believe that it is the entire inspired Word of God and is in order from beginning to end and never contradicts itself - then we must take any and all verses and passages dealing with any doctrine and compare it in light of the entire message that the Word teaches and with the character of God revealed and then we will see that God has always given man a choice in regards to his interaction with God.

You must read a different bible.

[John81]

You must read a different bible.

Perhaps that would explain his unbiblical stance on repentance too.

[2Tim215]

You must read a different bible.

KJV1611AV

Perhaps that would explain his unbiblical stance on repentance too.

What explains yours. Oh, don't get me wrong. I understand the need to feel "chosen" (pride?), the need to repent in order to be saved (why would you need to repent if you have already been chosen?) and the fact that because you are chosen God "decided" to change your rotten lifestyle into a holy one - takes away all the responsibility to have to live one doesn't it?

God must not have chosen me because I believe that I am saved because of His righteousness and grace and for His glory not mine. And that I have a responsibility to now live a holy life as we are commanded to (1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be (personal action maybe?) ye holy; for I am holy.) Not to sit back and expect change and fruit and holy living to come from God as is my right, but to "run the race" and to work at living a holy life (Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.) My works after salvation bring Glory to God as it is only through obedience to Him that I am able to live holy - His grace is made manifest for the world to see when a sinner chooses to obey rather than it being my right as one chosen.

This will be my last post on the topic.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

But advise you to:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Because:
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

And to point out that:
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
We need to "depart from in iniquity" and "purge" ourselves to be "prepared unto every good work" regardless of what vessel you are, not sit back and expect change as your right as one "chosen". That these are all actions of obedience on our part, and if we do them then He sanctifies us and makes us a vessel of honor.

And finally that we are to:
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[Invicta]

KJV1611AV



What explains yours. Oh, don't get me wrong. I understand the need to feel "chosen" (pride?), the need to repent in order to be saved (why would you need to repent if you have already been chosen?) and the fact that because you are chosen God "decided" to change your rotten lifestyle into a holy one - takes away all the responsibility to have to live one doesn't it?

Just the opposite. The pride is on the side of those who believe they chose Christ, even though he said "You didn't choose me, I chose you." On another site someone said " 'Calvinists' are self righteous." Just the opposite, those who believe the doctrines of Grace believe there is no righteousness in them. We believe that ALL who are truly saved are chosen by God before the foundation of the world, as His Word says, even if they don't believe it.

[Nathaniel]

I think this is a good example of how "preserverance of the saints" actually goes full circle and becomes Arminianism.

I agree it can get pretty close.. If taken in the wrong direction... As I quote "I'm just now (hopefully by God's grace) coming out of the legalism I fell into." "(Then I fell again into fruit seeking... :/)"
As if I have not these fruits/preserve enough one can have no assurance. Which isn't biblical IMO. (If I have them they aren't perfect.. So they have sin as well. In which case what differ they from any other unsaved person's works? :/ God requires perfection so we can't lose sight of it.. (Ps 130:3) If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? My fruit won't and will never pass this test.. So I can't use it at all to see if I am in Christ or no.. If one does "check fruit to make sure they are in Christ" They look to their fruit (as a new law) and not to Christ. And if they see the sin therein they are condemned and that pains of hell gets hold upon them (Unless they lower the standard of holiness...) bringing them into bondage.. Then one goes around to produce more or better fruits (and seek to be made perfect by the flesh (whether they say By grace I do it! or not.) Which worsens their state even to feeling hell over them every moment like unto eternal death on earth.) Then they fall hopefully enough to go to Christ.. (Phil 3:8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

___________

Can a Christian continue in sin?



(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

No.

(Rom 6:2) By no means. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

(Rom 6:3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(Rom 6:4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

(Rom 7:6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
(Gal 6:15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

(Rom 6:5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
(Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Rom 6:7) For he that is dead is freed [in Greek: justified] from sin.
(Rom 6:8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

This is full assurance (As Abraham in Rom 4 and John 3:16)

(Rom 10:6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]; )
(Rom 10:7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

To doubt your salvation is to do this.. :/ though thankfully there is forgiveness with God that he may be feared.

(Rom 10:8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(Rom 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(Rom 10:11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.)

(Rom 6:9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
(Rom 6:10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
(Rom 6:11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin has no more dominion over me because it has no more power over me (The law is fulfilled and I died and now live [and am complete] in Christ.) Therefore in that faith I can bring forth fruit. ((John 15:5) I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.) Fruit isn't only huge deeds (which one should do too.) But, fruit is whatever I do by faith in Christ. (1Cor 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.)

(Gal 2:20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We are dead (Justified from all sin) and alive unto God through Jesus

(Rom 6:12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Therefore let us not sin seeing what great things he has done for us..

(Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

(Rom 6:13) Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
(Rom 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sin shall not have dominion because sin cannot hurt us any longer. We are no longer debtors to the law. Christ has fully atoned. We are now fully justified by grace alone.

(Rom 8:12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

(Gal 4:22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
(Gal 4:23) But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
(Gal 4:24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

We are no longer debtors to live after the flesh (the righteousness which comes from the law.)

(Rom 8:13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

(Rom 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
(Rom 3:21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(Rom 3:22) Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

(Gal 5:18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Faith is one of the works of the Spirit, if we walk by faith which worketh by love and not by sight (works); we will live.

(Rom 8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

(Rom 6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? by no means.

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace because sin is not imputed where there is no law and we no longer have the sin imputed by Adam? by no means

(Rom 6:16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of abounding offenses Under dominion/bondage to the law to death or abounding offenses to obedience to the faith unto the righteousness of Christ?

(Rom 1:5) By whom we have received grace and apostleship, to the obedience of faith among all nations, for his name:

(Rom 5:16) And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

(Rom 6:17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Hence my comment above.

(Rom 6:18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Free from our old husband the law and now being reconciled and justified we can serve Christ being clothed in his righteousness.

(Rom 6:19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
(Rom 6:20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

We had no righteousness at all because without faith it is impossible to please God.

(Rom 6:21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.

Those things = our good and bad works by the law which are all filthy rags..

(Rom 6:22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We are freed (innocent from sin through Christ.)

(Rom 6:23) For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Even our good is sin.. and of course our bad the wages thereof is death; but the gift of God (Romans 5, John 3:16)

(Rom 5:14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
(Rom 5:15) But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
(Rom 5:16) And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

Many offenses.. (As all we do has sin therein.) We must be wholly justified by Christ. If we look for our being in Christ from our works, if we are honest we will find death because our works are sinking sand. But, if we don't see any works at all or even if we do (seeing the deadness in our fruit.) Our response should be to trust in Christ thereby abiding in him and count all else but dung.

(Rom 4:17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
(Rom 4:18) Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
(Rom 4:19) And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
(Rom 4:20) He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
(Rom 4:21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
(Rom 4:22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
(Rom 4:23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
(Rom 4:24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
(Rom 4:25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Well can a Christian be in continual sin?

What is a Christian? Not one that does but one that receives all he has from Christ alone. So yes we can have many offenses. But, by no means should we live therein. I struggle with pride and it attacks me almost constantly and sometimes I am being proud at work and think (look how good you are doing compared to..!!) Or instead of let me work well and be nice and be a good witness for my Lord! Greed attacks all of a sudden and mixes in to my dismay I catch myself being nice (in which case being nice is an act of greed..) to get a $5 compliment coupon.. The flesh is always there sin is always there.. For example; Because one suffers with the outward form (yelling) and not just the the spiritual form (anger). Is that sin to big for God? No, and he will perfect that which concerns them at the resurrection. In the mean time we must suffer (Rom 8) with our imperfections in hope for the removal thereof... (for me my continual battle with pride, Idolatrous images of Christ in my mind etc.. I try to slay it them when I find them staying I can't give up. I must say go ahead flesh if you must go ahead all you want.. I agree I am a sinner worthy of death.. Yet I will trust in my Lord and wait in hope and by God's grace I will overcome you soon and also in that day finally you will be gone!

But let everyone that confesses Christ depart from iniquity for his names sake. Edited November 17, 2011 by Nathaniel

[John81]

I just found this while browsing and thought it interesting, especially in light of some things I've read on OB.


Still other groups that seem distinct from the Reformed family have Reformed roots.

For example, the first Baptists of England were essentially Reformed in their theology (see the London Baptist Confession of Faith) until moving to the United States where the freethinking stance of Roger Williams and the adoption, by more conservative Baptist churches, of the Arminianism of their Methodist revival partners nearly eradicated their strong Calvinism. Today, many Baptists—particularly in the U.S., and churches established through U.S. missionary efforts, are committed Arminians. However, there are still a significant number of Reformed Baptists, as can be seen at the excellent web site of Grace Online Library.

America's Puritan forebears were decidedly Reformed. In the United States, some of the most famous theologians from this continent were Puritans (notably Cotton Mather and Jonathan Edwards). Today, a large number of Congregationalist churches, which grew directly from the Puritan tradition, still find affinity with Reformed theology.

Not all Reformed groups sprang from the Reformation era. In Italy, the Wadensians, a sect with roots in the twelfth century opposed the excesses of the medieval Roman Church and taught a simple gospel of poverty, modesty, sobriety and evangelical fervor, rejecting Roman Catholic doctrines for which they could find no scriptural warrant (such as purgatory or granting of indulgences). After contact with Bohemian Hussites, they eventually became part of the Reformation, deciding to adopt the Swiss Reformed movement's theological orientation. This ancient group is still active today, with its major concentration still in Italy.

http://reformedtheology.org/SiteFiles/WhatIsRT.html

[heartstrings]

I just found this while browsing and thought it interesting, especially in light of some things I've read on OB.


Still other groups that seem distinct from the Reformed family have Reformed roots.

For example, the first Baptists of England were essentially Reformed in their theology (see the London Baptist Confession of Faith) until moving to the United States where the freethinking stance of Roger Williams and the adoption, by more conservative Baptist churches, of the Arminianism of their Methodist revival partners nearly eradicated their strong Calvinism. Today, many Baptists—particularly in the U.S., and churches established through U.S. missionary efforts, are committed Arminians. However, there are still a significant number of Reformed Baptists, as can be seen at the excellent web site of Grace Online Library.

America's Puritan forebears were decidedly Reformed. In the United States, some of the most famous theologians from this continent were Puritans (notably Cotton Mather and Jonathan Edwards). Today, a large number of Congregationalist churches, which grew directly from the Puritan tradition, still find affinity with Reformed theology.

Not all Reformed groups sprang from the Reformation era. In Italy, the Wadensians, a sect with roots in the twelfth century opposed the excesses of the medieval Roman Church and taught a simple gospel of poverty, modesty, sobriety and evangelical fervor, rejecting Roman Catholic doctrines for which they could find no scriptural warrant (such as purgatory or granting of indulgences). After contact with Bohemian Hussites, they eventually became part of the Reformation, deciding to adopt the Swiss Reformed movement's theological orientation. This ancient group is still active today, with its major concentration still in Italy.

http://reformedtheol...s/WhatIsRT.html

So?

[Invicta]

on Mather and Jonathan Edwards). Today, a large number of Congregationalist churches, which grew directly from the Puritan tradition, still find affinity with Reformed theology.

Not all Reformed groups sprang from the Reformation era. In Italy, the Wadensians, a sect with roots in the twelfth century opposed the excesses of the medieval Roman Church and taught a simple gospel of poverty, modesty, sobriety and evangelical fervor, rejecting Roman Catholic doctrines for which they could find no scriptural warrant (such as purgatory or granting of indulgences). After contact with Bohemian Hussites, they eventually became part of the Reformation, deciding to adopt the Swiss Reformed movement's theological orientation. This ancient group is still active today, with its major concentration still in Italy.

The Waldensians claimed their separation from Rome back to the time of Sylvester. Sylvester was the Bishop of Rome at the time that Constantine removed the seat of the emjpire to Byzantium. Rome likes to tell us that they originated in the 12th c. However if you read "The Noble Lesson" of the Waldensians (You can do a search) they mention Sylvester several times but no other pope.Since there were many popes in the intervening eight centuries, this must be significant. Peter Waldo seemed to be a convert of the Waldensians and founded the Poor Men of Lyon aka the Pauvre. Due to persecution from Rome they dispersed over a wide area even to Bohemia. The Bohemian Brethren seem to be descendants of this group. Later these were known as The Husssites.

[Invicta]

So?

So,

The so called Reformed Doctrine predates the reformation.

In fact, although you call it Calvinism, it can easily be traced back to Augustine (of Hippo) and he taught the same as Peter and Paul.

[Invicta]

Does God have a plan?

Pelagianism: God does not have a plan.

Arminianism, or semi Pelagianism. God has a plan, but man can over rule that plan. This is most plainly shown in the most prominent sub group, Dispensationalism, or Scofieldism which teaches that God's plan was for Jesus to set up a Jewish kingdom which was offered to the Jews but they rejected it , so God deferred the plan and put the church in place in the meantime. The church, therefore was not part of the plan, and so is nowhere mentioned in the Old Testament. This false teaching ignores some obvious biblical facts. Jesus never offered the kingdom to the Jews, in fact, when they tried to make him king, he rejected it. He said "My kingdom is not of this world." He also said. "The Kingdom of God is among you. " and "I will build my Church."

Calvinism. I use this misnomer as it seems a name you like to use. God has a plan and that plan will be carried out.

It follows that Dispensationalism is utterly opposed to Calvinism, although I go know some dear brothers who claim both.

[Brother Rick]

Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

Matthew 11:14, "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

II Sam. 16:3, "And the king said, And where is thy master's son? And Ziba said unto the king, Behold, he abideth at Jerusalem: for he said, To day shall the house of Israel restore me the kingdom of my father."

Acts 1:6, "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

Acts 13:46, "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."

Matthew 10:5-7, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
⁶⁾ But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
⁷⁾ And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 15:23-24, "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
²⁴⁾ But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Acts 28:27-29, "For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
²⁸Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
²⁹And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."


Acts 3:12, 19-21, "And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
¹⁹Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
²⁰And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
²¹Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

Heb. 8:10-12, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
¹¹And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
¹²For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Romans 11:25-29, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
²⁶And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
²⁷For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
²⁸As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
²⁹For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."


Those are some Bible study good verses for the casual reader to look at. Piecing them together the picture should become pretty clear. There are plenty more.

Also, see point number 7 in my "Problems with Preterism" article: http://ricksarticles.blogspot.com/2011/04/problems-with-preterism.html

[heartstrings]

So,

The so called Reformed Doctrine predates the reformation.

In fact, although you call it Calvinism, it can easily be traced back to Augustine (of Hippo) and he taught the same as Peter and Paul.

Yes, Paul and Peter warned about false teachers and heresies way back then. I don't care if Augustine, Spurgeon or George Washington taught or believed your "Reformation" "doctrines of grace" or whatever you want to call it.. You can trust any famous man you want to. I'm going to base my belief on what's written on the pages of the King James Bible and the Bible says that "for God so loved THE WORLD.....How big is His LOVE? Did it extend to a fraction of the world or the whole thing? It completely covered and filled every crack and crevice of this planet my friend....and it says that HE GAVE.....God is a GIVER, my friend, not a TAKER. He gave His only begotten son that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH. When all the sinners stand at the Great White Throne they will have no excuse whatsoever.because God's love was extended and made known and was freely given for EVERY PERSON who ever lived on this planet from Genesis to Revelation, from Alpha to Omega from the beginning to the end. His love is powerful and it is unlimited. He is FAR bigger and far more EFFECTIVE and THOROUGH in what He does than you credit Him. He is JUST and FAIR and He is altogether Lovely...He's not a selfish monster.. You can serve and preach your selfish limited atonement idol of your own making if you want to. I serve the Jesus who said come unto me ALL ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I AM MEEK and LOWLY of heart and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Edited November 14, 2011 by heartstrings

[John81]

Does God have a plan?

Pelagianism: God does not have a plan.

Arminianism, or semi Pelagianism. God has a plan, but man can over rule that plan. This is most plainly shown in the most prominent sub group, Dispensationalism, or Scofieldism which teaches that God's plan was for Jesus to set up a Jewish kingdom which was offered to the Jews but they rejected it , so God deferred the plan and put the church in place in the meantime. The church, therefore was not part of the plan, and so is nowhere mentioned in the Old Testament. This false teaching ignores some obvious biblical facts. Jesus never offered the kingdom to the Jews, in fact, when they tried to make him king, he rejected it. He said "My kingdom is not of this world." He also said. "The Kingdom of God is among you. " and "I will build my Church."

Calvinism. I use this misnomer as it seems a name you like to use. God has a plan and that plan will be carried out.

It follows that Dispensationalism is utterly opposed to Calvinism, although I go know some dear brothers who claim both.

I've encountered some that go to great extremes with their view that God sent Jesus to establish His kingdom with the Jews but since the Jews rejected Christ God came up with a "Plan B". Many put forth that God doesn't have any real control but rather He just keeps reacting to the whims of man until somehow things will finally come together to accomplish what He wants.

[Invicta]

Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

Matthew 11:14, "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

II Sam. 16:3, "And the king said, And where is thy master's son? And Ziba said unto the king, Behold, he abideth at Jerusalem: for he said, To day shall the house of Israel restore me the kingdom of my father."

Acts 1:6, "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

Acts 13:46, "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."

Matthew 10:5-7, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
⁶⁾ But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
⁷⁾ And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 15:23-24, "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
²⁴⁾ But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Acts 28:27-29, "For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
²⁸Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
²⁹And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."


Acts 3:12, 19-21, "And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
¹⁹Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
²⁰And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
²¹Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

Heb. 8:10-12, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
¹¹And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
¹²For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Romans 11:25-29, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
²⁶And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
²⁷For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
²⁸As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
²⁹For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."


Those are some Bible study good verses for the casual reader to look at. Piecing them together the picture should become pretty clear. There are plenty more.

Also, see point number 7 in my "Problems with Preterism" article: http://ricksarticles...-preterism.html

Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

Matthew 11:14, "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

II Sam. 16:3, "And the king said, And where is thy master's son? And Ziba said unto the king, Behold, he abideth at Jerusalem: for he said, To day shall the house of Israel restore me the kingdom of my father."

Acts 1:6, "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

Acts 13:46, "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."

Matthew 10:5-7, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
⁶⁾ But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
⁷⁾ And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 15:23-24, "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
²⁴⁾ But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Acts 28:27-29, "For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
²⁸Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
²⁹And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."


Acts 3:12, 19-21, "And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
¹⁹Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
²⁰And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
²¹Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

Heb. 8:10-12, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
¹¹And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
¹²For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Romans 11:25-29, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
²⁶And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
²⁷For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
²⁸As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
²⁹For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."


Those are some Bible study good verses for the casual reader to look at. Piecing them together the picture should become pretty clear. There are plenty more.

Also, see point number 7 in my "Problems with Preterism" article: http://ricksarticles...-preterism.html

Stringing together a lot of scripture quotes which are not connected, does not help, neither does comments about preterism, for preterism and futurism are both Jesuit teachings.

I will try to answer all your points later.