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Where do we draw the line for IFB?


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​And so many cannot see the truth written in God's Word because they have been conditioned to believe a lie.

Exactly brother. I am referencing the opposite view and this is exactly my thinking. You hit it on the head! People will not believe the truth in Christianity's realm just because a 'great preacher' doesn't teach it, even though the scriptures say it.

That is exactly my view from where I am standing on my form of partial preterism. I can't see why people won't just 'see'.

Tradition truly binds the slave to it. And breaking the chain is rough.

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Exactly brother. I am referencing the opposite view and this is exactly my thinking. You hit it on the head! People will not believe the truth in Christianity's realm just because a 'great preacher' doesn't teach it, even though the scriptures say it.

That is exactly my view from where I am standing on my form of partial preterism. I can't see why people won't just 'see'.

Tradition truly binds the slave to it. And breaking the chain is rough.

​We must each be like the Bereans and search the Scriptures to know the truth. No teacher/preacher is perfect (neither are we) so we must be diligent to get in the Word, stay in the Word, and be in much prayer for wisdom and the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Over the years many things I once held to because that's what I was taught I've found to not be in accord with Scripture. I thank the Lord for guiding me to study things out on my own. Most Christians today don't do that and won't do that.

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Over the years many things I once held to because that's what I was taught I've found to not be in accord with Scripture. I thank the Lord for guiding me to study things out on my own. Most Christians today don't do that and won't do that.

​I too have lived this, and have come out of it. I now live my own convictions and follow the Lord the way I perceive he wants me to.

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I actually, in an argument on the gap theory, went to some earlier TR translations, even the German Luther Bible, to make a point on a matter, to show that all of them said the same thing, ("and the earth was without form, and void...", or an equivilent thereof), and none of them said anything like "BUT the earth BECAME...". So the earlier translations certainly have a place in some studies, but I agree, particularly, here, unless the topic IS the differences and similarities between the translations, (which might make an interesting study), its best of we are all on the same page. That being KJV. I will get out my photocopy of the 1611 version-it actually has a few variations. Be fun to do the spelling, as well.

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 I will get out my photocopy of the 1611 version-it actually has a few variations. Be fun to do the spelling, as well.

Check out 1 Peter 3:21. The punctuation has been 'erased' when the 1769 took over as the 'text of choice' for modern KJBs.

There was a reference to Blaney being a 'd***able corruptor of God's word', in one bible history section on versions that I read years ago.

 

Look at this -

The commonly printed 1769 KJBThe like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Here is the 1611 original edition -  The like figure whereunto, even Baptism, doth also now save us, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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To go right back to the OP of this thread:

In the first part, the general board is and should be open to anyone who doesn't cause trouble.

But this section, by its very title should be restricted to the close set of "IFB" only. This is the reason for the question.

I do think that plainly, regardless of what somebody calls themselves, if someone plainly rejects many of the generally accepted basics of the IFB position, they should be excluded from this section of the website.

Just because someone may designate themselves as "IFB", if they by their teaching reveal that they hold to positions that are not generally accepted by IFB, such a person should be excluded from this section of the forum.

 

 

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On 7/21/2016 at 2:56 AM, DaveW said:

To go right back to the OP of this thread:

In the first part, the general board is and should be open to anyone who doesn't cause trouble.

But this section, by its very title should be restricted to the close set of "IFB" only. This is the reason for the question.

I do think that plainly, regardless of what somebody calls themselves, if someone plainly rejects many of the generally accepted basics of the IFB position, they should be excluded from this section of the website.

Just because someone may designate themselves as "IFB", if they by their teaching reveal that they hold to positions that are not generally accepted by IFB, such a person should be excluded from this section of the forum.

Defining trouble as being argumentative in differing beliefs would delete all here from being in this area of the site.

And pointing out the "generally accepted basics of the IFB position" would deny the Independent part of IFB.

True Biblical Baptist 'salvation' is inherently different than most denominations - something plus Jesus dying on the cross for payment of the sins of all mankind - since most denominations, and some Baptists, believe works included with believing in Jesus Christ with all your heart - anyone who believes correctly may call themselves Baptist in doctrine. Other doctrines outside of conversion do sometimes waver between differing views. So why get rid of someone from the INDEPENDENT Baptist realm because of beliefs differing outside of salvation? 

Because of strictly defined views against Independence of Baptist views.

I happen to be as Baptist as some and more than most, yet because of my views on subjects outside of conversion, some here think I am not IFB.

I may not fit Daves view or Alans view of an IFB but I am IFB.

The only time 'trouble' comes from me is when someone states a verse or verses say contrary than what the verses actually state, and claim it is a Baptist doctrine, I get a bit defensive and ask for clarity of the verses quoted - to which most times I get cast aside as having a bad attitude because I question 'normal Baptist teachings'.

Is there not a cause? Can nobody question the basis for some doctrines? is there ever a different view that might be more biblical? 

Not to most IFB here.

Independence is futile if it means 'boxed in' without the ability to correct.

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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15 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Defining trouble as being argumentative in differing beliefs would delete all here from being in this area of the site.

And pointing out the "generally accepted basics of the IFB position" would deny the Independent part of IFB.

True Biblical Baptist 'salvation' is inherently different than most denominations - something plus Jesus dying on the cross for payment of the sins of all mankind - since most denominations, and some Baptists, believe works included with believing in Jesus Christ with all your heart - anyone who believes correctly may call themselves Baptist in doctrine. Other doctrines outside of conversion do sometimes waver between differing views. So why get rid of someone from the INDEPENDENT Baptist realm because of beliefs differing outside of salvation? 

Because of strictly defined views against Independence of Baptist views.

I happen to be as Baptist as some and more than most, yet because of my views on subjects outside of conversion, some here think I am not IFB.

I may not fit Daves view or Alans view of an IFB but I am IFB.

The only time 'trouble' comes from me is when someone states a verse or verses say contrary than what the verses actually state, and claim it is a Baptist doctrine, I get a bit defensive and ask for clarity of the verses quoted - to which most times I get cast aside as having a bad attitude because I question 'normal Baptist teachings'.

Is there not a cause? Can nobody question the basis for some doctrines? is there ever a different view that might be more biblical? 

Not to most IFB here.

Independence is futile if it means 'boxed in' without the ability to correct.

You quoted me in this response so I shall answer in part.

I never defined trouble in this thread in that way, so your point is irrelevant - unless of course you are accusing me of making that definition, in which case you are doing so without cause. Also in relation to that particular point, I only use it in reference to the general board, and in the context that someone who comes to this site for the purposes of causing trouble should be excluded from the board entirely. It has nothing at all to do with the IFB specific area.

The rest of the post shows an incredible lack of understanding of the actual issues.

GP said:

"True Biblical Baptist 'salvation' is inherently different than most denominations - something plus Jesus dying on the cross for payment of the sins of all mankind - since most denominations, and some Baptists, believe works included with believing in Jesus Christ with all your heart - anyone who believes correctly may call themselves Baptist in doctrine."

For instance, this portion of his post shows that he has no understanding of what it means to be a Baptist. Defining a Baptist as anyone who believes (salvation) correctly may rightly call themselves Baptist in doctrine" is simply incorrect.

In fact I know of people who teach salvation by grace alone without any sort of works added, who would be horrified at being called a baptist. 

Because they do not agree with many of the doctrines that are considered baptist.

GP has no understanding of what it actually means to be "independent" nor of what it means to be a "baptist".

Independent does not mean that everything except salvation is up for grabs - it simply means that each church is free to control its own way as it believes the Lord is directing them.

There are many churches who would and do embrace this sort of independence.

So what makes an independent church specifically an "Independent Baptist Church"?

It would be those "Distinctives" that I referred to as "the generally accepted basics of the IFB position".

Without such "distinctives" a church may very well be an independent church, and it may very well preach salvation correctly, but it could not be correctly called an Independent Baptist Church.

 

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5 hours ago, DaveW said:

You quoted me in this response so I shall answer in part.

I never defined trouble in this thread in that way, so your point is irrelevant - unless of course you are accusing me of making that definition, in which case you are doing so without cause. Also in relation to that particular point, I only use it in reference to the general board, and in the context that someone who comes to this site for the purposes of causing trouble should be excluded from the board entirely. It has nothing at all to do with the IFB specific area.

The rest of the post shows an incredible lack of understanding of the actual issues.

GP said:

"True Biblical Baptist 'salvation' is inherently different than most denominations - something plus Jesus dying on the cross for payment of the sins of all mankind - since most denominations, and some Baptists, believe works included with believing in Jesus Christ with all your heart - anyone who believes correctly may call themselves Baptist in doctrine."

For instance, this portion of his post shows that he has no understanding of what it means to be a Baptist. Defining a Baptist as anyone who believes (salvation) correctly may rightly call themselves Baptist in doctrine" is simply incorrect.

In fact I know of people who teach salvation by grace alone without any sort of works added, who would be horrified at being called a baptist. 

Because they do not agree with many of the doctrines that are considered baptist.

GP has no understanding of what it actually means to be "independent" nor of what it means to be a "baptist".

Independent does not mean that everything except salvation is up for grabs - it simply means that each church is free to control its own way as it believes the Lord is directing them.

There are many churches who would and do embrace this sort of independence.

So what makes an independent church specifically an "Independent Baptist Church"?

It would be those "Distinctives" that I referred to as "the generally accepted basics of the IFB position".

Without such "distinctives" a church may very well be an independent church, and it may very well preach salvation correctly, but it could not be correctly called an Independent Baptist Church.

Your lack of stating your view without being an offense is quite awe-inspiring. 

You totally lack an ability to understand flexibility in wording - as to be a true believer IS to believe as a Baptist.

And no Dave you do not know people who believe by grace without works - there is always something when it comes to another denomination. I've spoken with them all.

If they have issues with the Baptist name, it's because of the saved by grace without anything else. You're missing something in their thinking.

Period.

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52 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Your lack of stating your view without being an offense is quite awe-inspiring. 

You totally lack an ability to understand flexibility in wording - as to be a true believer IS to believe as a Baptist.

And no Dave you do not know people who believe by grace without works - there is always something when it comes to another denomination. I've spoken with them all.

If they have issues with the Baptist name, it's because of the saved by grace without anything else. You're missing something in their thinking.

Period.

Before it gets changed........

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4 hours ago, DaveW said:

Before it gets changed........

So you think people who have issues with the Baptist name yet agree in doctrine with Baptists have salvation correct?

Digging into why they have issues would be an interesting query.

Everyone I have ever spoken to personally about salvation, and there have been 100's in S E Indiana, that were other denominations, never agreed with the Baptist view salvation.

Never. Without exception.

So I find it very difficult to accept that anyone who would agree with Biblical salvation would have 'real' issues with the Baptist name.

Unless they came across some perverted Baptists that think works does go with salvation - and there are some.

Mennonite, Church of Christ, Church of God, Pentacostal, Christian, Wesleyan, Methodist, Episcopal, Catholic, etc. - none agreed with the true Biblical doctrine of salvation that is normal Baptist doctrine. Some came close - but have always an issue with something

Hurry and copy Dave.

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I think it was NoNicolaitans that wrote something in the past about even IFB's teach a form of Replacement Theology.

So many do, and don't realize they do.  When it is pointed out that they do, they deny it being a form of Replacement Theology.  But it is whether they deny it or not.

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I admit, at times, to seriously considering dropping the IFB title, due to the poor name it has been given by some, preachers that are legalists, abusive and rule with an iron fist-I suspect most of us could name a few in that camp. However, I also realize that if that were the case, I'd have to drop the title of Christian, as well, because it has been so greatly perverted for the last...oh, 2000 years. So as I choose to continue to call myself a Christian, because TRUE biblical Christianity is right, so I have chosen to continue to call myself Independent Fundamental Baptist, because I believe in the meaning of the term(s), and hold to the heart of it. So instead of dropping the label, instead I choose to teach people what it means. I have a brief statement on our church website explaining what it is and did a tract that I pass out with gospel tracts, so people know WHO we are and WHY we are who we are.

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Until I joined this message board I had never even heard of the F part of IFB. I, and any other Independent Baptists I fellow shipped with simply described ourselves as Independent Baptists, I always thought and continue to think that this simple designation is all that is needed. I think that at this late date the term "Fundamental" has come to be associated with extremists, especially outside of Baptist or even Christian ranks.

I use the term IFB here on these boards simply because it seems that this is the term that has been used here historically. But as for myself, I think it is an unneeded and possibly even a confusing descriptive term, especially to those outside of Baptist ranks.

I will never drop the name, "Baptist" because I believe that the truth has, and still does, reside in Baptist ranks. I will also continue to use the term "Independent" in my every day life to describe what kind of Baptist I am. I believe that our designation as "Independent" is born out by Scriptural examples of how the Church That Jesus Built is to function.

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I, too, will never drop the IFB.

We are independent, separated from conferences and conventions where we would be governed by many who have never even stepped foot through our doors.

We are fundamental, in that, we hold to the fundamentals of the Christian faith; dismissing any doctrines that contradict what is written in the word of God.

We are Baptist, due to the fact that upon studying many other denominations, we find that they all lack in Biblical truths in one area or another.

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