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farouk

How strongly would you try to dissuade a 17-year old from getting an eyebrow barbell?

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John81:

A lot of questions there, some of them not quite on topic, but here goes:

Re. screen name, I'm not Arab, actually. There was a king years ago called Farouk, anyway, who was in the news a lot.

Re. swimsuits: I must confess that I've not moved in church circles where such stringent control is exercised by church members on other people's swimwear. I'm not an expert and I guess part of me says, don't interfere, although it would be nice to think that people wanted to stay modest.

Re. your local church customs: whether one uses the word culture or not, it's true that there is often a whole lot of unspoken assumptions from one sort of local church to another and sometimes when things may seem generally the same among those who share similar theological and doctrinal convictions, there is some unspoken thing which can arise.

Hope this clarifies.

(I'm thinking the jewelry aspect is being lost here a bit, now.)

Blessings.

(PS: Haven't had lunch, yet, so I'll be back later.)

Edited by farouk

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John, I don't know if farouk's name is actually that (your name can be whatever you want, farouk), but I do know the meaning of the name is "person who knows right from wrong." Perhaps, if that isn't his real name, that's why he chose it? :icon_smile:

I wasn't saying that was his real name, which is why I mentioned "screen" name. I was simply pointing out that another had asked him about it and he brushed it off, similar as he did a couple other times he was questioned.

In any event, thank you for your input, if I recall, one of the reasons the person asked about his name was because of that meaning.

Not that it matters, that was a side issue if even an issue at all.

While I have the opportunity, I want to thank you for the many good posts you have put forth of late. They have been edifying and encouraging.

Now it's time to do some Bible study and have quiet time with the Lord. I'm thankful I don't need an apron for that today, it's HOT!

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John81:

A lot of questions there, some of them not quite on topic, but here goes:

Re. screen name, I'm not Arab, actually. There was a king years ago called Farouk, anyway, who was in the news a lot.

Re. swimsuits: I must confess that I've not moved in church circles where such stringent control is exercised by church members on other people's swimwear. I'm not an expert and I guess part of me says, don't interfere, although it would be nice to think that people wanted to stay modest.

Re. your local church customs: whether one uses the word culture or not, it's true that there is often a whole lot of unspoken assumptions from one sort of local church to another and sometimes when things may seem generally the same among those who share similar theological and doctrinal convictions, there is some unspoken thing which can arise.

Hope this clarifies.

(I'm thinking the jewelry aspect is being lost here a bit, now.)

Blessings.

(PS: Haven't had lunch, yet, so I'll be back later.)

This doesn't really answer my questions...

With regards to swimsuits, it's not about any church having control, it's about what the Bible says with regards to modestly. Most one piece swimsuits are immodest while all bikinis are exceedingly immodest. No one who is not married should see another of the opposite sex showing that much and those parts of their body.

That's Scripture, not church control.

Regarding your screen name, I didn't actually ask about that, another did in reference to it's meaning. I never said you were an Arab, even if you chose the name of an Arab king.

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This seems to happen every now and then, a non-IFB joins in and "seemingly" tries to convince OB of worldly ways.

I agree with the comment above, geography matters not when it comes to scripture.

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This seems to happen every now and then, a non-IFB joins in and "seemingly" tries to convince OB of worldly ways.

I agree with the comment above, geography matters not when it comes to scripture.



cubfan1969:

Actually if you knew me directly you might eventually conclude that I am fairly conservative in my ways and practices. And we would probably enjoy similar Bible studies.

My question would be if for example a Christian family came to your area, who were Bible reading and prayerful in their habits, and came to your local church, would one cultural reason be enough to want to make them unwelcome, such as listening to a different kind of music on the car radio, or son had a stud in his ear, or the wife had a tattoo, etc. This to some extent is what I mean by culture.

I'm not arguing for these cultural differences; my point is, how far does one elevate such matters to make them the sole reason for not making people welcome who need fellowship?

Blessings. Edited by farouk

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Okay, here we go again: :11backtotopic: . If a discussion re: geography is desired, please start another thread. Thank you.

HappyChristian:

Okay so I've deleted the word geography from the previous post. :)

Blessings. Edited by farouk

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Man you're hard. :bleh:


:heh:


Keifer:

It's okay; HappyChristian and I go back a long way....like, a few weeks. :)

Seriously, the scenario which I mentioned, with a family coming to a local church, would they be made to feel unwelcome because they weren't quite the same just because of one of those things mentioned? it's a scenario which could probably be repeated again and again.

(Two cents'.)

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They should not be made unwelcome. Unfortunately, not all churches are as loving as they should be. I've heard stories of some churches that would look down on this family for coming so. But that attitude is entirely wrong. One can disagree with the choices/convictions of others without being rude or unwelcoming. However, again, as each church is different (especially among us independent baptists), your question really cannot be answered across the board.

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They should not be made unwelcome. Unfortunately, not all churches are as loving as they should be. I've heard stories of some churches that would look down on this family for coming so. But that attitude is entirely wrong. One can disagree with the choices/convictions of others without being rude or unwelcoming. However, again, as each church is different (especially among us independent baptists), your question really cannot be answered across the board.


salyan:

Again, I agree with you about independent churches being by nature different so it can be hard to generalize, I wasn't forgetting this.

Whatever anyone may think, one way or another, for some families coming to a local church, it may well transpire that they listen to stuff on the car radio that others wouldn't, the son a little ring in his ears, or the wife has a tattoo or .... a whole host of things. Presumably the main thing is for any Bible reading habit to be encouraged in a prayerful way. So this is what I meant by cultural, really, though maybe other folk didn't see how I was using the word. Otherwise, driving ppl away for essential personal preference reasons seems to make little sense, (according to my two cents')...

Blessings.

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No one's driving people away, farouk. If they come they are welcome - no one's going to go up to them and say "your tattoo is of the devil." :rolleyes: If they don't like what is preached they are still welcome, but we're not going to change the plain preaching of separation from the world just to scratch the ears of anyone who comes. If preaching in love what we believe the Bible says drives people away, so be it. We don't plan on doing so, or try to do so, but it's a natural consequence of teaching 'all the counsel of God.'

And what you think of as personal preference may be my Biblical convictions.

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No one's driving people away, farouk. If they come they are welcome - no one's going to go up to them and say "your tattoo is of the devil." :rolleyes: If they don't like what is preached they are still welcome, but we're not going to change the plain preaching of separation from the world just to scratch the ears of anyone who comes. If preaching in love what we believe the Bible says drives people away, so be it. We don't plan on doing so, or try to do so, but it's a natural consequence of teaching 'all the counsel of God.'

And what you think of as personal preference may be my Biblical convictions.


salyan:

Well, okay; sounds good. :)

You see, I don't think that we are as far apart in our views as may have been thought by some folks.

Blessings.

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This doesn't really answer my questions...

With regards to swimsuits, it's not about any church having control, it's about what the Bible says with regards to modestly. Most one piece swimsuits are immodest while all bikinis are exceedingly immodest. No one who is not married should see another of the opposite sex showing that much and those parts of their body.

That's Scripture, not church control.



:thumb:

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No one's driving people away, farouk. If they come they are welcome - no one's going to go up to them and say "your tattoo is of the devil." :rolleyes: If they don't like what is preached they are still welcome, but we're not going to change the plain preaching of separation from the world just to scratch the ears of anyone who comes. If preaching in love what we believe the Bible says drives people away, so be it. We don't plan on doing so, or try to do so, but it's a natural consequence of teaching 'all the counsel of God.'

And what you think of as personal preference may be my Biblical convictions.


Exactly!! :clap:

If one comes in with a head full of metal and later truly becomes saved, the Holy Spirit will deal with them. For example, there are 2 people in our church who when they first visited had quite a few piercings and tatoos. They got saved, and slowly the piercings (these are men) disappeared and the tatoos began to be covered up. It was a process, but it was the Holy Spirit that did it....no one (not even the preacher) went up to them to discuss these issues.

Unfortunately we had another person who came for a while, quite a few piercings in the head, lip, eyebrow.....said he gave his life to The Lord, then after a few weeks quit coming to church. He ignored phone calls, contacts from church people/friends. Come to find out a few months later that he returned to his "rock band" lifestyle.

None of these 3 were approached by anyone regarding how they looked or dressed, rather they were welcomed continually each time they attended. It was only through the Holy Spirit that the changes were made (at least in 2 of them). The 2 that remain are faithful to church attendance, church activities and soul winning.

A truly saved Christian will not condone or advocate that a saved person (or his/her children) go out and do worldly things, whether it be getting a tat or a piercing, going to the movie house, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a true Christian would even consider and willingly go and want to be like the world because we are called to be separate. Yes, we are all sinners, but those of us who are saved are saved sinners, and in those times when we start to think about doing something sinful, we should not feel right about it, rather we should be feeling conviction about what we are about to do, think, etc. If/when we do something, then we should feel convicted and should repent of whatever it was we did, thought or said.

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Exactly!! :clap:

If one comes in with a head full of metal and later truly becomes saved, the Holy Spirit will deal with them. For example, there are 2 people in our church who when they first visited had quite a few piercings and tatoos. They got saved, and slowly the piercings (these are men) disappeared and the tatoos began to be covered up. It was a process, but it was the Holy Spirit that did it....no one (not even the preacher) went up to them to discuss these issues.

Unfortunately we had another person who came for a while, quite a few piercings in the head, lip, eyebrow.....said he gave his life to The Lord, then after a few weeks quit coming to church. He ignored phone calls, contacts from church people/friends. Come to find out a few months later that he returned to his "rock band" lifestyle.

None of these 3 were approached by anyone regarding how they looked or dressed, rather they were welcomed continually each time they attended. It was only through the Holy Spirit that the changes were made (at least in 2 of them). The 2 that remain are faithful to church attendance, church activities and soul winning.

A truly saved Christian will not condone or advocate that a saved person (or his/her children) go out and do worldly things, whether it be getting a tat or a piercing, going to the movie house, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a true Christian would even consider and willingly go and want to be like the world because we are called to be separate. Yes, we are all sinners, but those of us who are saved are saved sinners, and in those times when we start to think about doing something sinful, we should not feel right about it, rather we should be feeling conviction about what we are about to do, think, etc. If/when we do something, then we should feel convicted and should repent of whatever it was we did, thought or said.


cubfan1969:

You are painting with a rather broad brush, friend.

Some Christians do watch movies from time to time (if you read the threads carefully you might discover I do have misgivings about TV, etc.)

Some Christians do get earrings, etc. (I don't wear any now, although I'm not 'opposed', particularly.)

Some Christians do get faith related ink designs (not what I would do, or encourage), but it does happen.

It seems by your wording that you have made doing certain things a sure sign of unbelief. This is arbitrary.

Otherwise I would generally and guardedly sympathize with some of your observations.

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cubfan1969:

You are painting with a rather broad brush, friend.

Some Christians do watch movies from time to time (if you read the threads carefully you might discover I do have misgivings about TV, etc.)

Some Christians do get earrings, etc. (I don't wear any now, although I'm not 'opposed', particularly.)

Some Christians do get faith related ink designs (not what I would do, or encourage), but it does happen.

It seems by your wording that you have made doing certain things a sure sign of unbelief. This is arbitrary.

Otherwise I would generally and guardedly sympathize with some of your observations.


:bang: :bang: :bang:

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cubfan1969:

You are painting with a rather broad brush, friend.

Some Christians do watch movies from time to time (if you read the threads carefully you might discover I do have misgivings about TV, etc.)

Some Christians do get earrings, etc. (I don't wear any now, although I'm not 'opposed', particularly.)

Some Christians do get faith related ink designs (not what I would do, or encourage), but it does happen.

It seems by your wording that you have made doing certain things a sure sign of unbelief. This is arbitrary.

Otherwise I would generally and guardedly sympathize with some of your observations.

Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated.

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted.

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin.

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively".

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.

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cubfan1969:

You are painting with a rather broad brush, friend. Just trying to stand on God's word, nothing else.

Some Christians do watch movies from time to time (if you read the threads carefully you might discover I do have misgivings about TV, etc.) Didn't say all movies were wrong; I said being seen/going to a movie house.....bad testimony.

Some Christians do get earrings, etc. (I don't wear any now, although I'm not 'opposed', particularly.) I'm aware of that.

Some Christians do get faith related ink designs (not what I would do, or encourage), but it does happen. And this is God honoring how? This is nothing but plain "I want to be like the world." This shows the lost that there isn't any real difference between them and a follower of God, that the lost person can continue to do the things he/she wants to do.

It seems by your wording that you have made doing certain things a sure sign of unbelief. This is arbitrary. Um, not necessarily unbelief, but rather not being in God's will, not being obedient to God's word. If a "christian" is willingly doing things of the world after he/she has supposedly been saved, then that is not only bad testimony, but could lead some to question whether he/she is truly saved or not. When a person is in backsliding mode, they need to "get right with God." This child of God who is right with Him will not WILLINGLY go out and do things of the world, nor want to be/look like the world.

Otherwise I would generally and guardedly sympathize with some of your observations. I'm not painting with a broad brush as you say, rather as it has been said many times in this thread (many with scripture) :beatdeadhorse: , a true follower of God is called to be separate, not be a sympathizer with the world.


Next you'll probably try to convince us that the Joel Osteen's, Rick Warren's, Benny Hinn's of the world are great men and that there is nothing wrong with their teachings and/or theology.

BTW---your liberalness is showing.

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Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated.

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted.

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin.

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively".

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.


Thanks John. I must have been typing my reply as you were posting yours. I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, my reply may have been a little harsh....I'm just tired of the few that come here, trying to bring and justify their worldly ways.

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Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated. That's right!

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted. That will preach!!

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin. AMEN!!

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively". You are sooooooooooo correct. All too many people want to hear a watered-down gospel, one that doesn't tell them that they are a sinner, that there is a real literal hell...

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.

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cubfan:

Okay so now I supposedly support the theology of Rick Warren, Benny Hinn, because I have suggested that you can't judge the motives of some Christians who see some things in a somewhat different light from yourself. If you really knew me, I don't think you would make these accusations, friend.

Now you see why some Bible reading people coming to certain very conservative churches with questions, sometimes find it hard to penetrate an accusatory mentality.

Oh well.
.......................

Well, folks, does anyone have more on topic comments about the thread?

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Keifer:

I was thinking of the previous verse (27):

'Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. '

Just making an honest, exegetical enquiry. ...


PS: after all the to and fro of the past few hours, no-one seems to have answered this point yet....

(Just wondered..)

Blessings. Edited by farouk

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PS: after all the to and fro of the past few hours, no-one seems to have answered this point yet....

(Just wondered..)

Blessings.


Just taking a stab here, but I'm betting it's 'cause we're ignoring it. :heh:

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