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michae1

The Beast Revelation

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Are this passages poetic and not mean what they say also?

3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
—Isaiah 16:1–5 KJV
......
When the end comes for Israel, God will cause the sun to darken on a clear day. The darkness is not caused by clouds. Notice that it is noonday, so the sun is directly over Israel at that time.

I agree with anime4christ - prophetic truth is frequently expressed in poetic form. The Psalms are clear examples, but many prophecies also.

We believe the Scriptures, but is a simple literal understanding always correct? We all agree that 70 weeks means 490 years, yet most on this board reject a literal understanding & expand it to 2500+ years even though Invicta & I have shown a straightforward, literal understanding with the 70 weeks ending with the stoning of Stephen & the opening of the Gospel to the Gentiles, with only the destruction to take place. Jesus himself confirms this understanding with his Olivet prophecy.

Making the last few chapters of Isaiah refer to a yet future millennium does not agree with Scripture - you are actually claiming that the details of the NH&NE are millennial prophecies.

18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light u
nt
o thee: but the Lord shall be u
nt
o thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my pla
nt
ing, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.


Everything eternally glorious, then Satan is released from prison & all mankind unites in rebellion. Whatever happened to Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified?

We need to see prophecy as a series of "pictures" of Messiah coming for redemption, saving his believing people - Jew & Gentile as one people of God in Christ. The redeemed are being called to inherit the glorious NH&NE which in Is. 65 & 66 is portrayed in terms of an idyllic situation where all is peace, & all live a full life. John's Revelation shows that even death will be no more.

Isaiah was prophesying before the Babylonian destruction - he, like Jeremiah, was prophesying a glorious future for Israel, beginning with the return, the rebuilding, & the coming of the Messiah.

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To Nicolaitans,

Why is it so hard to believe my post are describing a permanent solar eclipse? It is in so many prophecies!

For the fact it doesn't say it's speaking of a solar eclipse. That's your guess as to what the verses mean. Others have come to different conclusions. None can prove their view right and we won't know until such occurs. God could bring about a solar eclipse, God could work the same thing in another matter, God could do something we can't even think of.

At the same time, your use of this theory to decide Scripture speaks of America and the idea the antichrist will come from America is simply more speculation on your part. There are verses in Scripture you seem to ignore which could indicate the possiblity the antichrist comes from Syria or a nation in Europe. Other theories have been put forth as well.

Does it concern you at all that the theories you put forth are in disagreement with the general interpretations which have been put forth for nearly 2,000 years?

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When the sun stands still over Israel, "Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East" will be in the sun light. The Antichrist will come from the dark side of the earth when God judges his kingdom according to Revelation 16:10.

Edited by Eric Stahl

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The sun was dark at mid-day when Jesus hung on the cross.

When we walk in the light, spiritually, we do not walk in darkness.

I get accused of "spiritualising" Scripture. A greater offence is "literalising."

We look for spiritual truths in the Word. Literalising misses the message - just as Jesus opponents failed to recognise him.

Edited by Covenanter

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The sun was dark at mid-day when Jesus hung on the cross. When we walk in the light, spiritually, we do not walk in darkness. I get accused of "spiritualising" Scripture. A greater offence is "literalising." We look for spiritual truths in the Word. Literalising misses the message - just as Jesus opponents failed to recognise him.

When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word, at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.

The sum and substance of this most important rule is that one should take every statement of the Scriptures at its plain face value, unless there are indications that a figurative or metaphorical meaning was intended by the original writer. In other words, one is to take the Scriptures as they are written and is not to attempt to read into the Sacred Writings his own ideas or the thoughts of men.

The Golden Rule of Interpretation

Have Bible prophecies been fulfilled "literally" or "spiritually"? Was the first coming of Christ "literal"? Is there any reason why a born again, Bible believing Christian should not believe in a "literal" Second Coming of Christ? There is no good reason to doubt that Bible prophecy will be wholly and "literally" fulfilled in the future.

Israel still exists as a nation just as prophecy foretold it would. The nation Israel is back in its land in preparation for the literal fulfillment of all the prophecies pertaining to it.

If prophecy does not mean exactly what it says, there is no way to discern exactly what it does mean. How does the interpreter test the validity of his/her conclusions when spiritualizing Scripture?

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Covenanter is saying that he is accused of spiritualizing scripture, not that he does it. Instead he subscribes to the interpretation of the prophesies that the apostles subscribed to and taught. Dispensationalists tend to throw everything out that the apostles said of fulfilled prophesy. The Pharisees took a lot of prophesy extremely literally while Jesus and his apostles explained the true meaning, especially the poetic hyperboles, metaphors, and apocalyptic language. That said, nobody on this board is claiming that there will not be a literal second coming of Christ. There just won't be a literal seven-headed monster running around before his coming. I just don't understand why some people think they have more authority than Jesus and the apostles when it comes to interpreting prophesy.

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It can sometimes be easy, while at other times more difficult, to determine whether something is being presented as literal or in a spiritual manner.

Hopefully all of us here would agree that Jesus isn't a literal door. When Jesus said He was the door He meant that figurative, spiritual manner, not literally.

In other cases some verses are more difficult to deal with. In the cases where we can't determine for certainty whether a particular verse or passage is literal or spiritual, better to just leave it as is rather than hazarding various guesses and putting them forth as fact.

What does Scripture mean in Revelation when referring to the destruction of the city of Babylon? Is that figurative or spiritual? Is that literal Babylon which is in Iraq or a spiritual Babylon? If spiritual, is it another city, a nation, a system? All of these have been put forth as fact but we know they all can't be fact.

If one believes we won't be here during the time of Tribulation, why spend so much time trying to figure out what one doesn't believe will apply to them, something they will never see?

If one believes Christians will pass through part or all of a terrible Tribulation why not prepare themselves and others as best as they can in the power of the Spirit rather than trying to figure out all the details of who, what, where and when?

Why declare categorically that certain prophecies pertain to a particular nation, city or event when Scripture doesn't actually say that?

Were these prophecies given to us so we can debate and argue over them, trying to determine all the details, trying to read between the lines; or were these prophecies given to us as a warning that we as Christians should not waste time in pursuing personal holiness and being about the Lord's business?

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Have Bible prophecies been fulfilled "literally" or "spiritually"? Was the first coming of Christ "literal"? Is there any reason why a born again, Bible believing Christian should not believe in a "literal" Second Coming of Christ? There is no good reason to doubt that Bible prophecy will be wholly and "literally" fulfilled in the future.

Israel still exists as a nation just as prophecy foretold it would. The nation Israel is back in its land in preparation for the literal fulfillment of all the prophecies pertaining to it.

If prophecy does not mean exactly what it says, there is no way to discern exactly what it does mean. How does the interpreter test the validity of his/her conclusions when spiritualizing Scripture?

God will cause a permanent solar eclipse to set up over Israel when the sun becomes 7 fold strength (Isaiah 30:25-26) and the earth burns as an oven (Malachi 4:1) and men are scorched by the sun! (Revelation 16:8-9) It will last through the kingdom age.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
—Isaiah 24:19–23 KJV

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord God, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: —Amos 8:2–3, 8–9 KJV

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
—Joel 3:14–16 KJV

3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
—Isaiah 16:1–5 KJV

11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
—Habakkuk 3:11–13 KJV

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
—Revelation 16:8–11 KJV

Job 38:12–13, 15, 22–24 KJV 12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the
dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

172 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm
shall be broken.
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
—Job 38:12–13, 15, 22–24 KJV



27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
—Matthew 24:15–31 KJV

20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed’s seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
—Isaiah 59:14–60:2 KJV

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.
—Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV

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God will cause a permanent solar eclipse to set up over Israel when the sun becomes 7 fold strength (Isaiah 30:25-26) and the earth burns as an oven (Malachi 4:1) and men are scorched by the sun! (Revelation 16:8-9) It will last through the kingdom age.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
—Isaiah 24:19–23 KJV

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord God, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: —Amos 8:2–3, 8–9 KJV

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
—Joel 3:14–16 KJV

3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
—Isaiah 16:1–5 KJV

11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
—Habakkuk 3:11–13 KJV

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
—Revelation 16:8–11 KJV

Job 38:12–13, 15, 22–24 KJV 12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the
dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

172 ��AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm
shall be broken.
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
—Job 38:12–13, 15, 22–24 KJV



27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
—Matthew 24:15–31 KJV

20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed’s seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
—Isaiah 59:14–60:2 KJV

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.
—Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV


Could you clarify what you mean by "kingdom age"? I've heard different meanings for this so I want to be sure I know what you are meaning.

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I think it's useless trying to have a meaningful conversation on this thread. Instead of actually addressing criticism, Eric just repeats himself and posts excerpts from his book. Later guys.

They are my words and they are spelled right and they are typed already. My spelling is terable and my typing is slow and poor but the message is important.

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To Nicolaitans,

Why is it so hard to believe my post are describing a permanent solar eclipse? It is in so many prophecies!


Eric, it's not my intention to be your nemesis. :nuts:

Isaiah 60:19-20
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Eric, I believe the references to "light" and "darkness" in Isaiah 60 are more about spiritual light and spiritual darkness at the beginning of the chapter. Once Jesus reigns in Israel, he will not only be their spiritual light, but because of his glory, he will also be the supply of physical light. Hence "thy" sun and "thy" moon...thy being Israel. Israel will no longer need the sun and moon because of the glory of the Lord. He will outshine the sun and moon...therefore, Israel won't be able to tell when the sun or moon will rise or set.

Now, concerning Joel 3...this is a completely separate event. Isaiah 60 is during Christ's reign on earth. Joel 3 is referring to Christ's Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation period...

Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Two separate events...

Eric,
I want to apologize for my previous post in which I used the Winnie the Pooh emoticon. I was trying to just be silly, but I did it at your expense...for that I'm sorry and I apologize.

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Eric, it's not my intention to be your nemesis.

Isaiah 60:19-20
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Eric, I believe the references to "light" and "darkness" in Isaiah 60 are more about spiritual light and spiritual darkness at the beginning of the chapter. Once Jesus reigns in Israel, he will not only be their spiritual light, but because of his glory, he will also be the supply of physical light. Hence "thy" sun and "thy" moon...thy being Israel. Israel will no longer need the sun and moon because of the glory of the Lord. He will outshine the sun and moon...therefore, Israel won't be able to tell when the sun or moon will rise or set.

Now, concerning Joel 3...this is a completely separate event. Isaiah 60 is during Christ's reign on earth. Joel 3 is referring to Christ's Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation period...

Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Two separate events...

Eric,
I want to apologize for my previous post in which I used the Winnie the Pooh emoticon. I was trying to just be silly, but I did it at your expense...for that I'm sorry and I apologize.


I appreciate your comments and believe you are a soldier for Jesus. I am just trying to give you more ammunition to warn America.

Yes Isaiah 60:19-20 and Joel are talking about different times, but it is the same solar eclipse that starts in the tribulation before

Armageddon and last through the 1000 year kingdom age. Surely you believe Revelation 16:10 is darkness of the sun light. If you

don't there is no hope for you to understand. Look at the Bible passages around the references in my quote # 134 and see they are

all talking about darkness of the sun, moon, and stars before Armageddon which starts in the tribulation and last through the

kingdom age. It is darkness of sun light not spiritual darkness. Israel will not be in spiritual darkness when their redeemer comes

because they turn back to God when they see the fire fall on Magog (Russia) and those who live carelessly in the isles (America).

See Ezekiel 39:6-8 so will I make my Holy name known.

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It is darkness of sun light not spiritual darkness. Israel will not be in spiritual darkness when their redeemer comes



Okay...

This is why I said that "I believe" that it's talking about spiritual light and darkness...at the beginning of Isaiah 60...it does change to physical light later in the chapter.

Isaiah 60:2
For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

I'm not saying that I'm right; however, notice that little word "but" and that the LORD "shall" arise upon thee. It could be talking about physical darkness, but I think the context goes deeper into spiritual light and darkness. The LORD hasn't arrived yet (in verse 2).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one who spiritualizes scripture, but in the context of the passage, I interpret it to mean spiritual darkness.

Such as...

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

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Okay...

This is why I said that "I believe" that it's talking about spiritual light and darkness...at the beginning of Isaiah 60...it does change to physical light later in the chapter.

Isaiah 60:2
For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

I'm not saying that I'm right; however, notice that little word "but" and that the LORD "shall" arise upon thee. It could be talking about physical darkness, but I think the context goes deeper into spiritual light and darkness. The LORD hasn't arrived yet (in verse 2).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one who spiritualizes scripture, but in the context of the passage, I interpret it to mean spiritual darkness.

Such as...

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

4 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
2 In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
—Isaiah 4:1–3 KJV
Isaiah tells us that by the end of the fighting there will be seven women of marrying age for each man in Israel. It is hard enough to keep one wife happy. I don’t envy those Jewish men who have seven of them! On a more serious note, however, think about this. If only 33 percent of the Jews survive and only one of eight adults is a man of marriageable age, there will not be many Jewish men alive after the tribulation or the time of Jacob’s trouble.
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
5 And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
—Isaiah 4:4–6 KJV
At the end of the tribulation, only holy Jews will survive, because God will judge His people by fire and war. How can anyone survive the nuclear attack? Isaiah explains that the Lord will create a canopy of smoke by day and fire by night for the righteous Jews, as He did for the nation of Israel when they escaped from Egypt and went through the wilderness for forty years (recorded in the book of Exodus). The canopy will protect the holy Jews from the seven times stronger sun, torrential rain, bombs and radiation, and great hailstones.

When Jesus comes only holy Jews will be alive. notice in verse 2 that the land is dark and the people are in darkness. I know it is hard to believe this because of what it means to America. It took me years of studying to accept it.

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Ok, let's accept that your premise is true for a bit here. How is your new knowledge superior to the knowledge already contained in the bible in convincing Americans to repent? How is your message more effective than the words of Jesus when he says "if ye do not repent, ye shall all likewise perish"? Why will Americans heed the warnings of inevitable doom in your message if Jesus said that one back from the dead will not convince people if they refuse to listen to Moses and the prophets (i know that was to Israel, but the same principle applies today to gentiles as well)? And what is the point of Americans repenting if it will not save America in the end anyway? For I do not see any escape from the wrath to come in your message but for Americans to move to Israel.

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Ok, let's accept that your premise is true for a bit here. How is your new knowledge superior to the knowledge already contained in the bible in convincing Americans to repent? How is your message more effective than the words of Jesus when he says "if ye do not repent, ye shall all likewise perish"? Why will Americans heed the warnings of inevitable doom in your message if Jesus said that one back from the dead will not convince people if they refuse to listen to Moses and the prophets (i know that was to Israel, but the same principle applies today to gentiles as well)? And what is the point of Americans repenting if it will not save America in the end anyway? For I do not see any escape from the wrath to come in your message but for Americans to move to Israel.

I had a neighbor that was interested in Bible prophecy and would talk to me about it. He got saved. Jude 1:22-23 says some you can save by compassion others save by fear. If you learn to show people the nuclear war and solar eclipse some will get saved that may not have. I think some Christians will also become motivated to witness and get right themselves. I know that the understanding affected me. My book is a call to the church to repent before the fire falls and the heavens go dark over America.

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And what good will it do for America to repent if it's still going to happen? Saving by fear means preaching on Hell. Believe me, Hell is much worse than a nuclear war or a solar eclipse. If it doesn't scare people, but your knowledge does then that means those people want a good life on earth, and not eternal salvation.

I do not mean to be disrespectful. I know I am much younger than you and should be willing to listen more that to speak. But I ask big questions of those who make big claims. I say this with utmost respect, but there needs to be as strong a defense for a strong claim such as (almost) direct revelation, and I will press for it until I am convinced or it collapses.

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John81,

The kingdom age is the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Why do you believe men will be scorched by the sun through a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth? That doesn't seem to fit with other passages of Scripture.

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They are my words and they are spelled right and they are typed already. My spelling is terable and my typing is slow and poor but the message is important.

Obviously your message is unclear and there are several things to question, which a few of us have attempted to discuss with you. When you simply repeat what has already been posted, often reposting from your book, that doesn't help to clarify, answer the questions or explain anything.

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And what good will it do for America to repent if it's still going to happen? Saving by fear means preaching on Hell. Believe me, Hell is much worse than a nuclear war or a solar eclipse. If it doesn't scare people, but your knowledge does then that means those people want a good life on earth, and not eternal salvation.

I do not mean to be disrespectful. I know I am much younger than you and should be willing to listen more that to speak. But I ask big questions of those who make big claims. I say this with utmost respect, but there needs to be as strong a defense for a strong claim such as (almost) direct revelation, and I will press for it until I am convinced or it collapses.


Perhaps trying to scare people into heaven is not the best method to reach the lost.

I lean more towards trying to let them know they're a sinner, that the price of sin is eternal hell, yet God loved them enough to give His only begotten Son, & Jesus loved them enough to give His life on the cross to pay their sin debt that they may have eternal life in heaven.

Perhaps for many they have been scared into saying Jesus is my Savior, but without a conversion, & that's why we have so many with professions of faith that are not walking the walk nor talking the talk of a saved person.

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Perhaps trying to scare people into heaven is not the best method to reach the lost.

I lean more towards trying to let them know they're a sinner, that the price of sin is eternal hell, yet God loved them enough to give His only begotten Son, & Jesus loved them enough to give His life on the cross to pay their sin debt that they may have eternal life in heaven.

Perhaps for many they have been scared into saying Jesus is my Savior, but without a conversion, & that's why we have so many with professions of faith that are not walking the walk nor talking the talk of a saved person.

That's the preferred method and the place to start. Yet there are some who have a misunderstanding of hell (the place where they hang out with their lost friends, drinking beer, shooting pool, having an eternal party) and it takes learning the scary reality of hell to get them to realize how serious the matter is and how important it is they be born again in Christ as their only means of salvation.

Even if one is scared of hell, we must make sure they come to Christ sincerely, from their heart, just as in any other case of helping someone come to salvation.

No doubt some who pray a prayer have done so because they had some fear of hell, but they were just looking for insurance against hell, not an actual saving relationship with Christ.

I my own case, I grew up attending Sunday school until my early teens but I had never heard the Gospel, or much other biblical truth either. The first time I heard of Christ coming again, about the end times (and this was after they showed the old "Thief in the Night" movie) I was both scared AND convicted. Had I only been scared, not doubt I would have remained lost at least for some time even if I had "prayed a prayer". Thanks be to God, I was scared AND convicted and I knew without a doubt I wanted to and had to repent and be born again in Christ. Thankfully that Assembly of God church had a pastor who knew and preached the Gospel at that time. Years later a very charismatic type preacher took over that church and it became all about "speaking in tongues".

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And what good will it do for America to repent if it's still going to happen? Saving by fear means preaching on Hell. Believe me, Hell is much worse than a nuclear war or a solar eclipse. If it doesn't scare people, but your knowledge does then that means those people want a good life on earth, and not eternal salvation.

I do not mean to be disrespectful. I know I am much younger than you and should be willing to listen more that to speak. But I ask big questions of those who make big claims. I say this with utmost respect, but there needs to be as strong a defense for a strong claim such as (almost) direct revelation, and I will press for it until I am convinced or it collapses.

Showing people Bible prophecy coming true helps people believe the Bible is the word of God. When they see a nuclear war described in a way they can believe, it makes it easy to believe what the Bible says about hell. We can't save all of America but maybe we can save our family and friends and coworkers. Hard questions are good questions.

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