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michae1

The Beast Revelation

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Is there a better study Bible? Yes - we need one that provides helps in understanding, without imposing a hermeneutic or telling us what the Bible teaches.

I have for many years used a Bible with a margin for cross references, though now I use the Blue Letter Bible. That allows word studies to be followed in Heb. Gk. & KJV English without imposing an interpretation, though commentaries & study guides are linked to the text where additional information is required. It is obviously helpful to have cross references, maps & dates so, e.g. we can see the conditions under which the prophets were prophesying.

I bought Matthew Henry 50 years ago, & 10 years ago I bought the NIV "Thematic Study Bible" from a retiring missionary. While based on the NIV, it links themes & doctrines rather than stating interpretations. These can be followed with the KJV or other translation. It does sometimes suggest interpretations where there is controversy & follow up Scriptures. I don't use either much now I have the Blue Letter Bible on line.

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:ot:

Hey, fellas, while discussion of Scofield and commentaries might have their place, it isn't in this thread. Let's get it back to the OP - especially since the original poster asked to do that instead of going where you've gone. Okay? If you want to continue the Scofield/commentary thoughts, please begin another thread. Thanks.

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Lets hunt the beast rather then bunnies.


:hijacked: or :ot:

Eric, I did a search on you & found this.


I take it that the article is about you. In it you mention this book was written to ‘the church.’ When those 2 words are used it usually means the RCC, for they'er the ones that claims to be ‘the church.’

Is this article about you, & do you believe in ‘the church?’

:11backtotopic: Edited by Jerry80871852

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:ot:

Hey, fellas, while discussion of Scofield and commentaries might have their place, it isn't in this thread. Let's get it back to the OP - especially since the original poster asked to do that instead of going where you've gone. Okay? If you want to continue the Scofield/commentary thoughts, please begin another thread. Thanks.


Oh c'mon, you know how much I love to argue with Ian....

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:hijacked: or :ot:

Eric, I did a search on you & found this.


I take it that the article is about you. In it you mention this book was written to ‘the church.’ When those 2 words are used it usually means the RCC, for they'er the ones that claims to be ‘the church.’

Is this article about you, & do you believe in ‘the church?’

:11backtotopic:
by church I mean any one who has accepted Jesus as Lord and has asked God to forgive their sins.The church or body of Christ are the people who will go to heaven at the catching up of the church.
When you ask if this article is about you, do you mean by me? If yes then yes I wrote the book.

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OK, thanks for the reply, but a saved individual is not 'the church,' yet Jesus' Churches is made up of saved individuals that have been baptized, that is have truly followed Jesus.One cannot truly follow Jesus if they have, 1st save, 2nd been baptized by someone who has authority to baptize.

Yet during this time there is 'no church,' there is individual local churches, & not all individual churches has anything to do with Jesus, many of them being nothing but man made churches.

Again thanks for the reply, & letting me no where you stand, & I will not carry this no further here & everyone can return to the topic.

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My understanding of the church is two fold - local congregations of believers & the whole number of the redeemed.

I note

"MIDDLEBURG — A Middleburg business owner, church deacon and Bible teacher, says his study of biblical prophecy has revealed the end is drawing near, and his book, which will hit shelves the end of this month, will be “America’s Last Warning.”

I'm afraid there have been too many "last warnings" for your book "to make a lot of waves." The big problem is that the whole subject of prophecy has been of keen interested to Bible-believing Christians for millennia, & your insights are little different from many recent dispensational interpreters, & are no doubt conditioned by them.

We all have the Holy Spirit to lead & instruct us, but somehow we do not all come to the same conclusions. I suggest that this is because of our Lord's command in Mark:
31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

So if anyone issues further warnings in the years to come, your "last warning" will need renaming.

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What do I make of the Bible prophecies after more than 50 years of Bible study?

Old Testament prophecy focuses on the coming of Jesus - the "seed of the woman" so that applying e.g Daniel & Zechariah to the present "end times" is unjustified.

The Olivet prophecy concerns "the end" of Israel as a nation & the destruction of the temple & Jerusalem.

Warnings for the remaining time are in general terms as the duration is not revealed. The command is to be faithful & ready.

Revelation was written while the temple & Jerusalem were standing (see Rev. 11) & relates primarily to the destruction. Daniel's "end time seal" was opened by the triumphant Lion/Lamb.

The beast, with his number can be identified as Nero. There have, of course been many beastly persecutors & antichrists down the ages. However the one expected by John in "the last time" was probably the high priest who perished in the destruction.

All this in no way detracts or distracts from Bible prophecy - it takes away all the foolish speculation we have suffered since 1948 (if not before) & reminds us of our calling to the Lord's command.

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My understanding of the church is two fold - local congregations of believers & the whole number of the redeemed.

I note

I'm afraid there have been too many "last warnings" for your book "to make a lot of waves." The big problem is that the whole subject of prophecy has been of keen interested to Bible-believing Christians for millennia, & your insights are little different from many recent dispensational interpreters, & are no doubt conditioned by them.

We all have the Holy Spirit to lead & instruct us, but somehow we do not all come to the same conclusions. I suggest that this is because of our Lord's command in Mark:
31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

So if anyone issues further warnings in the years to come, your "last warning" will need renaming.

Amen! Far more important to pursue personal holiness and being about the Father's business than to continually try and speculate as to just how close we are to Christ's return (which we can't know) or whether or not we are living in the last generation (several generations have been declared "the last generation".

There will be no grand warning of Christ's return. As in the days of Noah, everyone will be going about things as usual. Christ will appear suddenly. We are called to be ready at all times, to be about the Father's business at all times so when Christ does return we are not found slacking, tending to other matters, or paying no attention to His commands.

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My understanding of the church is two fold - local congregations of believers & the whole number of the redeemed.

I note

I'm afraid there have been too many "last warnings" for your book "to make a lot of waves." The big problem is that the whole subject of prophecy has been of keen interested to Bible-believing Christians for millennia, & your insights are little different from many recent dispensational interpreters, & are no doubt conditioned by them.

We all have the Holy Spirit to lead & instruct us, but somehow we do not all come to the same conclusions. I suggest that this is because of our Lord's command in Mark:
31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

So if anyone issues further warnings in the years to come, your "last warning" will need renaming.


I agree with you in part, we are to watch, be ready, while being about the work we have been ordained to do.

To me, some churches, as well as some people, seems to be in love with prophesy & signs. And they spend both time & money on this issue, them fail to do the world they have been ordained to do.

Plus since we have had our Bible, there's been many books written on prophesy, on signs, And if you review what was written, what they predicted, the signs they pointed to, it was not even close All of this makes it even more difficult to bring souls to Christ.

The Christians time is better spent doing that work which we have been ordained to do, & of course that is go, teach, baptize.

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:hijacked: or :ot:

Eric, I did a search on you & found this.


I take it that the article is about you. In it you mention this book was written to ‘the church.’ When those 2 words are used it usually means the RCC, for they'er the ones that claims to be ‘the church.’

Is this article about you, & do you believe in ‘the church?’

:11backtotopic:
Jerry,
I didn't understand that you found the interview of me done by the Sunbury Daily Item. yes that fat man was me. God sure uses strange people some times. I am looking forward to my new body in heaven. The writer was kind to me. She could have smeared me.

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Yes, I found that interview, so your picture & comments you made. And with your picture being there matching the one you use here I was quite sure that it was you.

Yes, I'm looking forward to mine too, it will be so nice to have, & not have no more pain. The best is yet to come for all that have Christ as Savior, we have so much to look forward to. But you know, I've known several Christians that don't seem to understand that truth.

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Amen! Far more important to pursue personal holiness and being about the Father's business than to continually try and speculate as to just how close we are to Christ's return (which we can't know) or whether or not we are living in the last generation (several generations have been declared "the last generation".

There will be no grand warning of Christ's return. As in the days of Noah, everyone will be going about things as usual. Christ will appear suddenly. We are called to be ready at all times, to be about the Father's business at all times so when Christ does return we are not found slacking, tending to other matters, or paying no attention to His commands.
To John81 and Covenanter,

I know there have been many end time Prophecy books written. If you read the interview, you know I believe God sent me a message through a national pastor from Jamacia that it was time to write the deeper understanding down. I believe God is breaking the seal on the prophecy spoken of in Daniel12:10. Examples antichrist will come to power in America first, America is now the daughter of Babylon Zachariah 2:6-7 because 6000000 Jews are in America while the Russian Jews are going home.
The saints in heaven will kill the army of antichrist at Armageddon Psalm 149:4-9 There will be a nuclear war. There will be a permanent solar eclipse over Israel which cause darkness on the kingdom of antichrist Rev 16:10. And much more! I know this sounds wild and I was surprised as I learned it in the old testament prophets. It will take time for Christians to find my book and do the studying to understand. To understand people will have to use the passages from the King James Bible which I included in the book.

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I know other charismatics who have been told by god something completely different.

The earliest church outside Rome to accept the pre tribulation Rapture was the Irvimgite church. Their "prophet" Robert Baxter gave a date, "Count the days, in 1260 days the saints will be translated." This 1260 days expired on 14th July 1835. Long before that day Robert Baxter realised he was wrong and withdrew his support for the teaching, accusing himself of delusion. However, other prophets had confirmed that date, and the church, later called The Catholic Apostolic Church continued to accept the teaching, even after the date passed.

You can read all about it in IRVINGISM in its RISE PROGRESS AND PRESENT STATE. By Robert Baxter London, 1836.

He was deluded so are any others who say the same, or similar..

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“I began to understand things in general that the rest of the church does not understand,” Stahl said.

“I think God prepared me for this day.”

He also believes God prepared his brain to understand. A former champion chess player, Stahl said end-time prophecy “is like a giant puzzle, and you have to read it, remember it, so you can tie all the pieces of the puzzle together so you can see the whole picture.”

I was playing inter-county chess in my teens, with British Championship contenders in the teams. I was unbeaten in two seasons. I gave up competitive chess to earn a living & raise a family. Its such a time-consuming game, & is played in the mind, so that even now I find my mind distracted to work out chess positions sometimes. I encountered Scofield dispensationalists at university, & have been defending the teaching of Scripture against them for over 50 years.

By claiming a God-given understanding unique to Eric Stahl, you are going far beyond all other Christian commentators - & in effect claiming that YOUR understanding is directly inspired & unchallengeable. You are saying, "the Holy Spirit has giving ME understanding. YOU cannot dispute it, or you are arguing against the Holy Spirit."

I have looked at the chapter outlines of your book & I profoundly disagree. I too have written a pamphlet on the subject, though this needs revivion before publication. Perhaps through you God is telling me to expedite publication. This is the first page & contents:

Are we, alive today, "This Generation"
Ian Day December 2007 email ebenezer.engf@yahoo.co.uk

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Summary
Since 1948 there has been an ever increasing momentum for the view that Israel's return to the promised land is a sign that the fig tree is blossoming & we are in the "last days" and therefore that the present generation is the last generation before the return of the Lord Jesus. Many evangelicals accept the scenario described in the "Left Behind" books & films by La Haye & Jenkins. They expect a "rapture" when believers are removed from earth to heaven, followed by seven years of tribulation, the rise of antichrist and his destruction at Armageddon. The "millennium" is said to follow, when Jesus rules in person from Jerusalem, & Israel is first among nations.
This paper examines many aspects of that understanding. It is seen that it is based on a claimed literal understanding of the Old Testament prophecy. When that teaching is examined in the light of the New Covenant Scriptures it is seen to be contrary to the teaching of Jesus and his Apostles.
Specifically the warning signs of the Olivet prophecy are seen to relate to the destruction of Jerusalem & the temple in AD 70. The warning to subsequent generations, including ourselves, is to serve our Lord faithfully, to watch and pray, always ready for his return which will be without specific signs other than an increase in wickedness & persecution.
Are we that last generation which will see Christ return in glory for resurrection & judgement? Only God knows. The command to us is:
Mark 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Interpretation of Scripture
The Olivet Prophecy
The coming or parousia
The fig tree
Understanding the Revelation
The seven seals (Revelation 5-8)
Where does national Israel feature in God's plans?
Are the events of the last 60 years signs that we are the last generation?
Back to Matthew 24 & the Olivet prophecy
The Millennium
Letters to the 7 churches
2 Thessalonians
The seventy weeks of Daniel 9
Zechariah
The Covenant Promise
Appendix - Word studies
Further questions
Edited by Covenanter

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To Covenanter
I am not a prophet. I am only a Sunday school teacher who asked God to give me understanding of the prophecy that was sealed in Daniel's time till the end when the wise shall understand. I wrote what I learned so all can study. Some will understand. Even you may find something you never noticed before. I give all the scriptures and my understandings. You can read and see If you agree.
America's fate is in the Bible.

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To Covenanter
I am not a prophet. I am only a Sunday school teacher who asked God to give me understanding of the prophecy that was sealed in Daniel's time till the end when the wise shall understand. I wrote what I learned so all can study. Some will understand. Even you may find something you never noticed before. I give all the scriptures and my understandings. You can read and see If you agree.
America's fate is in the Bible.


I know there have been many end time Prophecy books written. If you read the interview, you know I believe God sent me a message through a national pastor from Jamacia that it was time to write the deeper understanding down. I believe God is breaking the seal on the prophecy spoken of in Daniel12:10. Examples antichrist will come to power in America first, America is now the daughter of Babylon Zachariah 2:6-7 because 6000000 Jews are in America while the Russian Jews are going home.
The saints in heaven will kill the army of antichrist at Armageddon Psalm 149:4-9 There will be a nuclear war. There will be a permanent solar eclipse over Israel which cause darkness on the kingdom of antichrist Rev 16:10. And much more! I know this sounds wild and I was surprised as I learned it in the old testament prophets. It will take time for Christians to find my book and do the studying to understand. To understand people will have to use the passages from the King James Bible which I included in the book.


The remark in red shows that you are claiming gto be a prophet.

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Invicta said "The remark in red shows that you are claiming gto be a prophet."

Prophets are never wrong. My teaching is not perfect. God has never spoken to me. Yes the light of understanding has come while

studying at times but who can say it was from the Holy Spirit or just the right side of my brain talking to the left side of my brain.

America's Last Warning sub titled The Wise Shall understand does contain America's last warning to America because it will be

true till it happens. The Bible describes a nuclear war coming to America. The Bible also describes a permanent solar eclipse

setting up over Israel after the earth becomes as hot a an oven Malachi 4:1 because the sun becomes 7 fold strength Isaiah

30:25-26. I love America, so how could I keep my understanding to my self? If the rapture comes in my time these things will

happen to people I know. I know the reaction of most people will be very negative but some may be pulled from the fire as Jude

said.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.
—Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV
178 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING
Please think about the sun and moon mentioned in verses nineteen and twenty. When people look into the heavens from Israel, there is still no light from the sun and moon even though they are in their heavenly positions. The permanent solar eclipse will start near the end of the tribulation period and last through the kingdom age for one thousand years. America will become an ice-covered land with no people.

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I haven't time for a detailed refutaion of your bizarre ideas, but I can indicate the way forward.

Does the book of Revelation seem confusing? Like a puzzle with missing pieces? Those pieces can be found in the Old Testament books of the prophets. America’s Last Warning provides answers to your questions and serves as a tool to help you comprehend Bible prophecy and what it means to fear for our time.

Yes - it isimportant to read the time indicators, that show Rev. is primarily concerned with events surrounding the end of the Old Covenant with all its ceremonial. Rev. 11 makes that clear, thus we look at the Olivet prophecy to see the fulfilment of our Lord's prophecy of the AD 70 destruction. The Rev. 11 witnesses correspond to Moses & Elijah. Note that Jesus names the two witnesses when he warns the Pharisees in Luke 16:31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

We need to look to the way Jesus & the New Covenant writers used & interpreted the OT in order to understand prophecy. You are ignoring Jesus & his Apostles & so producing a fanciful interpretation.

While many of the Rev. uses the same prophetic pictures as the OT prophets, they does always have the same significance - e.g. the four horsemen/ chariots.

The rapture of the church and the day of the Lord are coming soon! In this study, you will discover:

• The end of time is near because Israel has returned to the land. (Zephaniah 1:14-2:3)

There is no prophecy of our Lord, nor his Apostles to suggest that ethnic Israel will again be a nation. All believers now comprise true Jews, true Israel, whereas unbelieving Jews do not. (Romans 2.) The events since 1948 sadly show that those claimimg to be Jews still reject their Messiah. Perhaps many will yet repent - but there is no need for them to return to Israel.. After Paul wrote Romans 11, the Jewish Christians were able to report many thousands of Jews there are which believe. Rev. 7 shows they (the 144,000) were sealed & protected & delivered 3 1/2 years before the destruction.

• The Antichrist will come to power in America first because America is the strongest nation. (Daniel 11:39)

He'd better come soon - or be diverted to China!

• Everyone who has heard the gospel truth and rejected Jesus will believe the lies of Antichrist. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12)

In 2 Thes. 2 Paul is saying that our Lord's Olivet prophecy of the destruction of the temple must come before the Lord's coming for judgment of the wicked & deliverance of his people prophesied in 2T1. The man of sin then perished.

• God will send nuclear war on Israel and the whole earth. (Jeremiah 25:14-38)

• The ozone and hydrogen layers of the atmosphere will be set on fire and burn up like a scroll when the nuclear bomb explodes over Israel. (Isaiah 25:1-7, 34:1-4, 51:4-6)

Isaiah 25 refers to Calvary & on to glory in the NH&NE.
Isa 25: 6And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


• The sun will become seven times stronger and the earth will become as hot as an oven. (Isaiah 30:25-26), (Malachi 4:1-3)

Signs for the day of the Lord are occurring now and the rapture of the church is even nearer. There is an urgent tone in this book because time is very short! If you like Bible prophecy, you will love America’s Last Warning. A great book for you, your pastor, and your study group.

Of course the coming of our Lord is nearer than it was. I love Bible prophecy, but your book can only add to the general confusion.

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